387 vs 700 class trains

[anonymous-user]

I was wondering why Govia Thaneslink/GT Northern have augmented the rather comfy and quite new 387 class trains with the torturous, and unpleasant 700 class ? The former were introduced in 2016, seem to have more seats and are quite a nice way to commute. 700s seem like a real step backwards. Anyone know why they did this?

[Dogwatch]

That's what you end up with when the Civil Service is allowed to run the railway. Poverty spec cram 'em in thinking. Govia had nothing to do with ordering them but gets all the flak for using them.

[Stedman]

The 387s were just stop gaps between the 377s and 700s, they've subsequently gone up to GN. The plan was always to have the single traction on TL. And yes, the 700s are st for everyone but the driver.

[anonymous-user]

I didn’t realise Govia themselves hadn’t ordered these. Thanks to this I now get to stand for 45 minutes every morning where I used to get a seat. Not that the seats are much better as they are rock hard and there’s no leg room. Doesn’t seem like progress.

[TVR_Steve]

700 "Gurner" class because the chin sticks out....


The standing is worse, around the doors there are no hand holders or anything to brace against, except other passengers!

[Boatbuoy]

I have a slightly related question, hopefully someone can answer.

These modern EMU's appear to have a white light on the roof (mid carriage) in the area of the pantograph well. Whats that all about then?

Best Regards,
Olly

[silverfoxcc]

Only a guess, but a CCTV showing the driver if the pan has a problem?

[Europa1]

wormus said:

I didn’t realise Govia themselves hadn’t ordered these. Thanks to this I now get to stand for 45 minutes every morning where I used to get a seat. Not that the seats are much better as they are rock hard and there’s no leg room. Doesn’t seem like progress.

Not to mention the lack of tables and charging points compared to their predecessors.

I saw some apologist trying to claim the thinness of the seats was due to safety regs; this was debunked by the bod who heads whichever agency sets the standards.

[Stedman]

wormus said:

I didn’t realise Govia themselves hadn’t ordered these. Thanks to this I now get to stand for 45 minutes every morning where I used to get a seat. Not that the seats are much better as they are rock hard and there’s no leg room. Doesn’t seem like progress.

I use the 700s too and the seats are AWFUL, even the 387s were slightly better.

I think i'm right in saying that a 12-car 700 has less seats than a 12 car 387/377. Lovely.

silverfoxcc said:

Only a guess, but a CCTV showing the driver if the pan has a problem?

Bingo!

[Europa1]

Stedman said:

I think i'm right in saying that a 12-car 700 has less seats than a 12 car 387/377. Lovely.

I think I'm right in saying that would mean they have no seats at all.

[rs1952]

These ironing board seats have become standard fitments on new stock - the 800s have them too.

On another forum someone speculated whether the recent downturn in passenger numbers, the first in 25 years, has got something to do with these bleedin' seats.

He might have a point...

[Europa1]

rs1952 said:

These ironing board seats have become standard fitments on new stock - the 800s have them too.

The 800s were also procured by the DfT, not the train companies.

I happened to catch a documentary on one of the Discovery channels recently about Italy's high speed trains. Premium class on those would make a first class passenger on a class 800 weep.

Edited by Europa1 on Thursday 14th June 18:48

[Chrisgr31]

wormus said:

I didn’t realise Govia themselves hadn’t ordered these. Thanks to this I now get to stand for 45 minutes every morning where I used to get a seat. Not that the seats are much better as they are rock hard and there’s no leg room. Doesn’t seem like progress.

Depending where you are travelling from and too there might be more trains to be put in the timetable yet. Not many people like the seats though!

[rs1952]

Europa1 said:

rs1952 said:

These ironing board seats have become standard fitments on new stock - the 800s have them too.

The 800s were also procured by the DfT, not the train companies.

Quite.

We all know that these seats are the DfT's idea. We also know the number of complaints that are coming in about them.

What we don't know is what the buggers are going to do about it.

This is basic customer service/ customer experience stuff. There are some circumstances where you, as a company, might want your punters to come in, do their transaction and bugger off again, thereby making room for more customers. In those cases you don't make the seats particularly comfortable so that your customer turnover stays fairly high (eg try sitting in a seat in a Macdonalds or a KFC for over 30 minutes and see what your arse wants to do at towards the end of your visit... )

Make people on trains sit in KFC/ Macdonalds-style "comfort" for a couple of hours or more, and they'll be seriously thinking about making the journey by some other means next time.

[anonymous-user]

Weirdly, even though these things are designed by robots, some seats on the 700s have more leg room than others. That is, I can sit down, facing forwards, in mild discomfort instead of being forced to sit sideways with my knees in the aisle. The romance of rail travel is definitely missing though.