Retaining their property during an invoice dispute
Discussion
Hello chaps, I would like some advice please. My ltd company invoiced a sole trader for some work and they disputed it. I explained and thought I was waiting for payment.
After a while he asked me if I had his laptop still from using it on the job, I said yes. He asked for it back and I jokingly said “not until you pay the invoice”. I know the man well and we used to have a laugh at work together.
It turned out he doesn’t want to pay the invoice so I refused to give him the laptop back until he pays. He hasn’t paid and I think we are probably going to end up using the small claims court.
The question is, should I have kept the laptop? I would rather return it than look bad in court if I shouldn’t have retained it.
Thanks in advance.
After a while he asked me if I had his laptop still from using it on the job, I said yes. He asked for it back and I jokingly said “not until you pay the invoice”. I know the man well and we used to have a laugh at work together.
It turned out he doesn’t want to pay the invoice so I refused to give him the laptop back until he pays. He hasn’t paid and I think we are probably going to end up using the small claims court.
The question is, should I have kept the laptop? I would rather return it than look bad in court if I shouldn’t have retained it.
Thanks in advance.
ElectricPics said:
If i was him I'd have a wander down to my local police station and report the laptop stolen, regardless of the rights and wrongs of your commercial dispute.
And he will be told "that's a civil matter, Sir"...In a not too dissimilar scenario, when we repo a vehicle we always give the customer the option to collect any personal effects but in the distant past we would ask for payment prior to releasing anything.
I'm not sure of the exact circumstances but somebody took a previous employer of mine to court over the return of their property and it was deemed that we could not hold their goods to ransom over an invoice dispute where those goods were not subject to the original contract.
However if you had been repairing the laptop and they refused to pay, then I believe you would be entitled to hold on to it.
A real lawyer may be able to clarify further.
I'm not so sure you should return it. He left it with you, not you taken it and when he asked for it, you said "not until you pay me!" If you said he could have it back, then withheld it until he paid, I am not sure you'd have much to go on, but since you said it was conditional on him paying, you've not nicked it, he left it....... What did he say to that? It sounds like you have claimed a lien, so if he hasn't contested that, you may be ok to retain it until he pays? One thing is for sure, once you give it back, he wont be paying you!
Is there a way to use returning it as some leverage to come to some compromise on payment? Why does he dispute invoice? The total amount, the hours worked? Or just the invoice period, ie you were doing the work for free?
If it is the total amount, why not see if you can negotiate it down a bit and he gets his laptop back?
Is there a way to use returning it as some leverage to come to some compromise on payment? Why does he dispute invoice? The total amount, the hours worked? Or just the invoice period, ie you were doing the work for free?
If it is the total amount, why not see if you can negotiate it down a bit and he gets his laptop back?
poo at Paul's said:
I'm not so sure you should return it. He left it with you, not you taken it and when he asked for it, you said "not until you pay me!" If you said he could have it back, then withheld it until he paid, I am not sure you'd have much to go on, but since you said it was conditional on him paying, you've not nicked it, he left it....... What did he say to that? It sounds like you have claimed a lien, so if he hasn't contested that, you may be ok to retain it until he pays? One thing is for sure, once you give it back, he wont be paying you!
....
OP, feel free to follow the uninsured and completely wrong advice of a person with (I assume) zero legal qualifications (and possibly some bonus FOTL notions)! Or..., don't!....
Happy Friday!
Breadvan72 said:
poo at Paul's said:
I'm not so sure you should return it. He left it with you, not you taken it and when he asked for it, you said "not until you pay me!" If you said he could have it back, then withheld it until he paid, I am not sure you'd have much to go on, but since you said it was conditional on him paying, you've not nicked it, he left it....... What did he say to that? It sounds like you have claimed a lien, so if he hasn't contested that, you may be ok to retain it until he pays? One thing is for sure, once you give it back, he wont be paying you!
....
OP, feel free to follow the uninsured and completely wrong advice of a person with (I assume) zero legal qualifications (and possibly some bonus FOTL notions)! Or..., don't!....
Happy Friday!
FWIW, I cannot see where he says he is a lawyer, but thank God you bang on about it all the f
king time to let us know that you are!! 
He has asked a simple question and one that any Magistrate or Court Officer would ask too. What was the answer when he told the guy, "you can have it back when you pay me"? The OP is not clear whether he agreed to this or not. He says the laptop was "used on the job", but that could mean lots of things. If the job was to fix the laptop, he may have more leverage.
OP, why was the laptop left with you? Was it for you to use to do this work, or was the work connected to it, eg you fixed it, upgraded it etc. Or did the guy come round to see you and just leave his laptop by accident? Or was it some form of security for the work you did?
Assuming he did not agree for you to keep it until he paid you, or that it was not a laptop you fixed for him as part of the work, I'd give it back, for the simple reason that the OP says they were "mates" at work previously and used to get on.
But I'd also tell the guy to jog right on next time he wanted any work doing and if anyone asked me about him, (reference etc) let them know to be wary too.
Unless of course I was diddling him on the invoice in the first place!!!! Not that any lawyer would ever understand that last bit!
Edited by s3fella on Sunday 24th June 20:19
I was doing some work for him that required special software, which is why I had his laptop. I was working on site by myself for a week so it lived with me. Normally I drop it off when I see him because its an old laptop and all he does with it is run that software a few times a year.
Perhaps the minds of PH can advise me further, here is the situation; The arrangement was that we both set the equipment up then I work for the client onsite for a week and then invoice the laptop owner for my time. Basically he was too busy to do the bulk of the job himself so got me to do it. We had worked a few jobs like this and all had been well.
On this job I had to do some extra hours onsite because we were a man short for the set up which put me behind. When the laptops owner billed the client they said they didn't want to pay for the extra time and he agreed to reduce the bill. He now wants me to take the extra work off my invoice, I refused on the grounds I had done the work and its not my fault he agreed to charge the client less. He says its my fault for being too slow.
I later found out the client has been charged for the missing man for the set up, so I have no idea why he wont pay me - he's not going to be out of pocket. I think its an ego thing; he doesn't like to lose.
So when I see him next I'm going to try and talk him around by explaining why I believe I should be paid.
I believe I'm in the right and should be paid, do you think I would win at small claims?
Perhaps the minds of PH can advise me further, here is the situation; The arrangement was that we both set the equipment up then I work for the client onsite for a week and then invoice the laptop owner for my time. Basically he was too busy to do the bulk of the job himself so got me to do it. We had worked a few jobs like this and all had been well.
On this job I had to do some extra hours onsite because we were a man short for the set up which put me behind. When the laptops owner billed the client they said they didn't want to pay for the extra time and he agreed to reduce the bill. He now wants me to take the extra work off my invoice, I refused on the grounds I had done the work and its not my fault he agreed to charge the client less. He says its my fault for being too slow.
I later found out the client has been charged for the missing man for the set up, so I have no idea why he wont pay me - he's not going to be out of pocket. I think its an ego thing; he doesn't like to lose.
So when I see him next I'm going to try and talk him around by explaining why I believe I should be paid.
I believe I'm in the right and should be paid, do you think I would win at small claims?
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