Fuzz Townsend Shows Love for 'Ol Gasbag'
Discussion
Classic Chim said:
Did he get to listen to it.
Mega
We spent a good hour together going through the whole thing Alun, Fuzz was super interested in 'Ol Gasbag' as he's planning a Car S.O.S episode where he converts a classic car to run on LPG. The theme will be 'Cleaning Up Your Classic', as we know low carbon LPG is a great way to reduce the emissions of any internal combustion engine.Mega
Love or hate the whole pollution topic there's no getting away from the fact that reducing tail pipe emissions is here to stay and sooner or later it's going to start to impact the classic car world massively, undoubtedly there will come a point in the future where legislation will dictate owners of polluting classic car's will face 'restricted use' rules that are already being introduced in some European countries.
If you take an old classic running on carbs and convert it to fuel injection, or better still a full fuel & ignition engine management system, and even on petrol you clean it right up. Take it one step further and inject low carbon and freely available 110Ron LPG instead of petrol and you massively further reduce the emissions of that formerly carb and petrol fed classic car.
Take the full engine management LPG project to it's final conclusion by adding the latest technology, high quality, free flowing and super efficient catalytic converter and that once super dirty and pouting classic is now a massively cleaner car that could mean you become exempt form any future 'restricted use' legislation.
Even in the classic car world we need to embrace the future, it's no accident we are seeing electric classics more an more these days and even Harry's wedding car was an electric E-Type. But of course part of the classic car experience is the sound and feel of it's internal combustion engine and you just dont get that with an electric motor, so the 'Cleaning Up Your Classic' Car S'O.S show is one that should interest us all.
I think it'll make for a great episode which will be viewed by the 5 million strong audience who watch the Car S.O.S show around the world, so look out for 'ChimpOnGas' with Fuzz Townsend on a telly near you soon
SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:
Trouble is the Government will not recognise an after market lpg system just like other conversions on later cars . ..
Not true Daz, lets take France as an example where Monday to Friday (08:00 - 20:00) you can't enter Paris unless you have at least a Crit'Air sticker 4, and here are the qualification rules to get those stickers:- Diesel cars must be first registered after 1 January 2001 (usually Euro 3) - Crit'Air sticker 4
- Petrol cars must be first registered after 1 January 1997 (usually Euro 2 and 3) - Crit'Air sticker 3
- Diesel light duty vans running on diesel must be first registered after 1 January 2001 (usually Euro 3) - Crit'Air sticker 4
- Petrol light duty vans running on diesel must be first registered after 1 October 1997 (usually Euro 2 and 3) - Crit'Air sticker 3
- Motorcycles must be first registered after 1 June 2000 (usually Euro 2) - Crit'Air sticker 4
- 'low emission zone' called ZRC (zones with restricted circulation) or
- 'emergency low emission zone' called ZPA (air protection zone in cases of high pollution events).
- Full-time Low Emission Zones (ZRC) in: Paris, Grenoble (only for heavy goods vehicles and light commercial vehicles).
At some point soon this will expand with Emergency Low Emission Zones (ZPA) in:
- Paris emergency LEZ
- Grenoble emergency LEZ
- Lyon emergency LEZ
- Lille emergency LEZ
- Strasbourg emergency LEZ
- Toulouse emergency LEZ
- Marseille emergency LEZ
- Chambéry emergency LEZ
Unless that is your car has been converted to LPG, at which point you can go where you want whenever you want, just present your registration document that clearly shows fuel type and if it says LPG you're exempt. To get your registration document amended from petrol to read LPG you just need the certificate from your mechanic who converted the car to LPG created when he adds the car to the national LPG register, in the UK the MoT certificate also shows LPG and I assume it'll be the same in all European countries.
France is leading the way in all this but Germany isn't far behind and all the other European countries will be sure to follow as soon it will effectively be European law. While the UK are leaving the European Union The Mayor of London has already committed to following the same regulations for our capital city with Manchester, Birmingham and the two major Scottish cities soon to follow.
All this is the slippery slope for polluting classic cars where 'Restricted Use' legislation is already being drafted in Brussels, soon classic car owners will only be able to use their cars on a strict limited mileage basis, if stopped by the police you may even need to prove you are driving to a car show or on a classic rally or risk a hefty fine.
Classic cars are extremely polluting, however if you replace the carburetor with fuel injection, make it burn low carbon LPG instead of petrol, and then use a modern catalytic converter you can clean up the tailpipe emissions on that classic car massively. Even ignoring all the legislation many classic car owners these days would welcome a way to 'Clean Up Their Classic' without going the full hog and converting their car to electric, actually there's a business opportunity in helping this new generation of environmentally conscious classic car owners drastically lower their car's emissions and LPG is part of the three part package to make this a reality.
1. Carb to Fuel Injection or better still a full Engine Management System
2. Convert from petrol to LPG
3. Fit a modern high efficiency catalytic converter
Do all three and you can more than half the emissions of any classic without resorting to converting the car to electric power which will totally change it's character, follow the above three steps and not only do you massively clean you classic's emissions but you also retain the sounds and feel of it's internal combustion engine which is an integral part of the character of any classic car.
While I would love it if our cars benifitted from government consesions if converted to LPG, I don’t see it happening. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of gas, having spent many years and a big mileage running a Range Rover on it.
I currently run a Mazda MPS. Most of these are in the stupid high tax band, but some aren’t. The difference is a slight ECU tweak which helps the emissions. While this is easy to do, the gov won’t recognise it and reduce the tax class. How it was registered when new is how it will remain is their line and I see no evidence that will change.
In a way, I am pleased about this. Imagine if after each MOT the following years tax was based on your actual emissions.....
Back to TVRs and gas. My Griff is taxed as PLG. If I converted to gas it would still be taxed as PLG. Would it make any difference to what it costs driving around London through the low emission zone? No.( I stand to be corrected if wrong on this point). Do I see any evidence that there may be a future tax advantage ? No.
If it were to actually happen, I may think about it. Until it actually happens I won’t be making any decisions based on the assumption that the government may in the future give me a tax break. They really don’t care and I don’t see it happening. Unless the car was registered as running on gas when new, any subsequent conversion will be irrelevant for tax purposes (very happy to be proved wrong in the fullness of time).
I currently run a Mazda MPS. Most of these are in the stupid high tax band, but some aren’t. The difference is a slight ECU tweak which helps the emissions. While this is easy to do, the gov won’t recognise it and reduce the tax class. How it was registered when new is how it will remain is their line and I see no evidence that will change.
In a way, I am pleased about this. Imagine if after each MOT the following years tax was based on your actual emissions.....
Back to TVRs and gas. My Griff is taxed as PLG. If I converted to gas it would still be taxed as PLG. Would it make any difference to what it costs driving around London through the low emission zone? No.( I stand to be corrected if wrong on this point). Do I see any evidence that there may be a future tax advantage ? No.
If it were to actually happen, I may think about it. Until it actually happens I won’t be making any decisions based on the assumption that the government may in the future give me a tax break. They really don’t care and I don’t see it happening. Unless the car was registered as running on gas when new, any subsequent conversion will be irrelevant for tax purposes (very happy to be proved wrong in the fullness of time).
Well, right here and right now the French are already recognising the environmental benefits of LPG by offering concessions to gas vehicles entering their urban congestion zones.
A few years ago my employer ran a significant fleet of LPG vans to cover deliveries into Central London, this was because the then Mayor understood the environmental benefits of gas, so he made LPG vehicles 'congestion charge exempt'. I measured the reduction in carbon which was significant, then used this data in tenders to help secure new public sector business for my employer across London as these tenders often include an environmental performance scoring element.
Enter Borris and the LPG congestion charge exemtion rule was done away with, so my fleet manager driven by my finance director returned to poisoning children in push chars at exhaust pipe level by switching back to polluting diesel. At this point we were going backwards not forwards, and the whole thing was an absolute crime to public health!
Shortly after this the VW diesel emissions scandal broke and the world started to look closer at what actually comes our of the exhaust of a diesel engine, suddenly everyone understood the particulates they throw out are extremely harmful especially to infants who's lungs are way more sensitive, and because children are low to the ground they suffer even more. Petrol emissions aren't that much better to be honest so the way forward has to be electric even though most of the UKs electricity is still actually generated by coal fired power stations which are pollution shockers.
Back to classic cars and we are now seeing a few companies offering electric conversions, but this isn't for everyone as for most people the sound and feel of an internal combustion engine is intrinsically linked to the classic car experience, this is where LPG can help. Even things in the fuddy duddy classic car world move on, there's a new breed of an environmentally conscious urban hipster classic car enthusiasts out there who want the old car experience but don't want to feel they are killing the planet to enjoy their hobby. For this new breed of classic car owner, moving their dirty carb fed pride and joy to fuel injected LPG with a catalytic converter could be a very attractive option
Nothing in life stands still, even the traditionally conservative world of classic car ownership needs to accept this, personally I think the concept of 'Cleaning Up Your Classic' is a very interesting engineering challenge that forward thinking owners of collector cars will be embracing more and more in years to come.
So look our for the next series of Car S.O.S where Fuzz Townsend and his team will be addressing this extremely relevant new challenge to the future of classic car ownership in the 21st century
A few years ago my employer ran a significant fleet of LPG vans to cover deliveries into Central London, this was because the then Mayor understood the environmental benefits of gas, so he made LPG vehicles 'congestion charge exempt'. I measured the reduction in carbon which was significant, then used this data in tenders to help secure new public sector business for my employer across London as these tenders often include an environmental performance scoring element.
Enter Borris and the LPG congestion charge exemtion rule was done away with, so my fleet manager driven by my finance director returned to poisoning children in push chars at exhaust pipe level by switching back to polluting diesel. At this point we were going backwards not forwards, and the whole thing was an absolute crime to public health!
Shortly after this the VW diesel emissions scandal broke and the world started to look closer at what actually comes our of the exhaust of a diesel engine, suddenly everyone understood the particulates they throw out are extremely harmful especially to infants who's lungs are way more sensitive, and because children are low to the ground they suffer even more. Petrol emissions aren't that much better to be honest so the way forward has to be electric even though most of the UKs electricity is still actually generated by coal fired power stations which are pollution shockers.
Back to classic cars and we are now seeing a few companies offering electric conversions, but this isn't for everyone as for most people the sound and feel of an internal combustion engine is intrinsically linked to the classic car experience, this is where LPG can help. Even things in the fuddy duddy classic car world move on, there's a new breed of an environmentally conscious urban hipster classic car enthusiasts out there who want the old car experience but don't want to feel they are killing the planet to enjoy their hobby. For this new breed of classic car owner, moving their dirty carb fed pride and joy to fuel injected LPG with a catalytic converter could be a very attractive option
Nothing in life stands still, even the traditionally conservative world of classic car ownership needs to accept this, personally I think the concept of 'Cleaning Up Your Classic' is a very interesting engineering challenge that forward thinking owners of collector cars will be embracing more and more in years to come.
So look our for the next series of Car S.O.S where Fuzz Townsend and his team will be addressing this extremely relevant new challenge to the future of classic car ownership in the 21st century
If I converted an Aston Martin to run on lpg , with the most advanced system on the market they would just laugh at my application to have the road tax reduced .
There excuse would be is you are reducing running costs so saving money .
How can you change the fuel classification on the log book ?
There excuse would be is you are reducing running costs so saving money .
How can you change the fuel classification on the log book ?
SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:
If I converted an Aston Martin to run on lpg , with the most advanced system on the market they would just laugh at my application to have the road tax reduced .
There excuse would be is you are reducing running costs so saving money .
How can you change the fuel classification on the log book ?
By being Prince Charles There excuse would be is you are reducing running costs so saving money .
How can you change the fuel classification on the log book ?
I agree nothing stands still and we all have to move on.
I also agree that the fuel costs of running on LPG are significantly less and that it burns cleaner so the engine lasts longer due to not getting the internals coated in carbon.
However, as far as tax goes, or driving in cities in the UK, there is no evidence at all that LPG will help keep the car on the road for longer or cheaper.
Indeed, despite diesel gate, those diesel cars are legally seen as being cleaner than a classic V8 running on LPG (as all that counts are the official emissions on the day that it was first registered) and there is no evidence, or even suggestion, that will ever change in the UK.
I also agree that the fuel costs of running on LPG are significantly less and that it burns cleaner so the engine lasts longer due to not getting the internals coated in carbon.
However, as far as tax goes, or driving in cities in the UK, there is no evidence at all that LPG will help keep the car on the road for longer or cheaper.
Indeed, despite diesel gate, those diesel cars are legally seen as being cleaner than a classic V8 running on LPG (as all that counts are the official emissions on the day that it was first registered) and there is no evidence, or even suggestion, that will ever change in the UK.
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