PPL, anyone done it?
Discussion
I have 
what would you like to know.. think I have about 150 odd if not more hours in piper , technam and cesena types. I have an IAA and changed to a CAA licence. It's about that money but I'd budget more as it's hard to get a ppl in the allocated hours as the rest of the hidden costs add up
what would you like to know.. think I have about 150 odd if not more hours in piper , technam and cesena types. I have an IAA and changed to a CAA licence. It's about that money but I'd budget more as it's hard to get a ppl in the allocated hours as the rest of the hidden costs add upCurrently doing it in the US. I haven't looked into it recently, but pretty certain UK CAA automatically "renders valid" an FAA private pilot certificate (and better chance of good weather doing the hours in somewhere like Florida), but there are quite a few differences in ATC/Airspace etc.
PS Get your medical first...
PS Get your medical first...
r1flyguy1 said:
Not sure what the guy above has been smoking but ppl in uk if you can maintain continuity and pass all the tests first time your looking at circa. 50 hours and £7k-£8k depending on aircraft type, flight school prices etc.
You must live in a REALLY cheap part of the world... I think 14-16k is more like it.180/hr for flying tuition in a crappy old PA28, plus exams, medical, kit, books, maps, etc... it all adds up.
RikJonAtk said:
You must live in a REALLY cheap part of the world... I think 14-16k is more like it.
180/hr for flying tuition in a crappy old PA28, plus exams, medical, kit, books, maps, etc... it all adds up.
Your talking ppl right??? In the UK???? The UK with the most restrictive airspace, a civil Aviation Authority that likes to screw you for as much money as they can on exams & licences180/hr for flying tuition in a crappy old PA28, plus exams, medical, kit, books, maps, etc... it all adds up.
Have a look here
http://www.takeflightaviation.co.uk/store/p35/PPL_...
Where in the world are you that its costs so much???
r1flyguy1 said:
Your talking ppl right??? In the UK???? Where in the world are you that its costs so much???
Yes.Oxford.
That link seems ‘too’ cheap. Also consider that it doesn’t include instruction costs (£30/hr) nor exam costs for cross country flights, ground schooling, doesn’t mention landing fees, etc.
Also, from your link, I see there’s an option to buy all 45 hours in one go... lots of people recommended NOT doing this as schools have gone bust in the past and you won’t see any of that money again. It also forces you to stay with them even if you end up disliking some aspect of the school.
RikJonAtk said:
Also, from your link, I see there’s an option to buy all 45 hours in one go... lots of people recommended NOT doing this as schools have gone bust in the past and you won’t see any of that money again. It also forces you to stay with them even if you end up disliking some aspect of the school.
This is great advice, I was learning at a flight school which was actually much more interested in getting the instructors through their ATPL (or certainly felt that way). Also was very cliquey and some funny attitudes in the place. Ended up walking away from it with some credit left in my prepaid lesson block (second of ten) as it wasn’t a welcoming place to be.
fridgedoctor said:
RikJonAtk said:
Also, from your link, I see there’s an option to buy all 45 hours in one go... lots of people recommended NOT doing this as schools have gone bust in the past and you won’t see any of that money again. It also forces you to stay with them even if you end up disliking some aspect of the school.
This is great advice, I was learning at a flight school which was actually much more interested in getting the instructors through their ATPL (or certainly felt that way). Also was very cliquey and some funny attitudes in the place. Ended up walking away from it with some credit left in my prepaid lesson block (second of ten) as it wasn’t a welcoming place to be.
RikJonAtk said:
Yes.
Oxford.
That link seems ‘too’ cheap. Also consider that it doesn’t include instruction costs (£30/hr) nor exam costs for cross country flights, ground schooling, doesn’t mention landing fees, etc.
Also, from your link, I see there’s an option to buy all 45 hours in one go... lots of people recommended NOT doing this as schools have gone bust in the past and you won’t see any of that money again. It also forces you to stay with them even if you end up disliking some aspect of the school.
20k is an absolutely ridiculous quote for a PPL course. If that’s what you’re paying, you’ve been well and truly had.Oxford.
That link seems ‘too’ cheap. Also consider that it doesn’t include instruction costs (£30/hr) nor exam costs for cross country flights, ground schooling, doesn’t mention landing fees, etc.
Also, from your link, I see there’s an option to buy all 45 hours in one go... lots of people recommended NOT doing this as schools have gone bust in the past and you won’t see any of that money again. It also forces you to stay with them even if you end up disliking some aspect of the school.
6-8k (all-in) is the ballpark figure for a U.K. PPL in 50 hours.
A friend of mine just did it, and it was sub-8k for him. My friends who are instructors say to use 8k as a budgeting yardstick. Many will, through aptitude and luck, manage to do it for less.
20k is hugely off the mark - to a comedy level. Although you did say oxford, so that seems about right with their general (more than) doubling of market rates for everything.
Testaburger said:
6-8k (all-in) is the ballpark figure for a U.K. PPL in 50 hours.
From memory, last year, an instructed hour in a Robin is £180 here, so even if you can do it in 50 hours that's £9k. You'll want a headset, so £500 unless you get a second hand one, plus club membership £100, charts, medical £185, exam fees, landing fees, licence fee, apps etc, must add up to £1500 at least.Sticks. said:
From memory, last year, an instructed hour in a Robin is £180 here, so even if you can do it in 50 hours that's £9k. You'll want a headset, so £500 unless you get a second hand one, plus club membership £100, charts, medical £185, exam fees, landing fees, licence fee, apps etc, must add up to £1500 at least.
£180 an hour is fairly expensive, I would say. I’m no longer an instructor (in the U.K.) but I’m fairly sure that a piper Cherokee can be rented with an instructor for sub-£140.There are countless websites offering 7k ppls which provide everything bar a headset and additional hours over 45.
My main point being that charging 20k for a bare-bones PPL is borderline criminal.
Testaburger said:
Sticks. said:
From memory, last year, an instructed hour in a Robin is £180 here, so even if you can do it in 50 hours that's £9k. You'll want a headset, so £500 unless you get a second hand one, plus club membership £100, charts, medical £185, exam fees, landing fees, licence fee, apps etc, must add up to £1500 at least.
£180 an hour is fairly expensive, I would say. I’m no longer an instructor (in the U.K.) but I’m fairly sure that a piper Cherokee can be rented with an instructor for sub-£140.There are countless websites offering 7k ppls which provide everything bar a headset and additional hours over 45.
My main point being that charging 20k for a bare-bones PPL is borderline criminal.
But an instructed hour in a PA28 from Lydd is £229 all in. But then they charge twice what I pay for club membership, so maybe they're exceptional. I'll get an updated price list next time I'm in Headcorn (website down). It has gone up quite a lot in the last couple of years.
But yes, that's still a long way from £20k.
I'm just about finished mine now, just the QXC and skills test to complete. I'm back in the UK in August and am hoping the weather holds long enough to smash out those last few hours! It has taken me a few years as a house move, a job change and the birth of two kids meant some pretty long gaps in training. That said, despite the lack of currency at times I will finish in just under the minimum 45 hours required. Most people take closer to 60 and the older you are the longer it can take.
If you are happy training in a 2-seat a/c (i.e C-152 or Traumahawk) you can expect to pay about £140-150, with a four seater PA-28 or similar costing around £160-170. For arguments sake lets say 45x150 best case is £6750. I pay £20+VAT landing fees for the privilege of training at an international airport and am currently up to 93 landings in my book so another £2000 or so there. Plus books, exam fees, charts, a headset, etc. is another £1000 or so. That gives us a very rough, realistic total of around £10,000.
There are ways to do it cheaper, the LAPL requires fewer hours of training but restricts you in ways which may or may not matter depending on the type of flying you would like to do once qualified. Microlights are cheaper again and the modern machines will outperform your standard 1960's vintage flight school aircraft in almost every way. Definitely worth considering if you want to keep down the costs.
Choose your school wisely. Frequently switching instructors can add hours to the process. Do your homework, it is much cheaper learning the theory on the ground than in the air. The better prepared you are for each lesson the more you can focus on the flying part. Weigh up whether the extra cost of a large airport is worth it - for me I liked the idea of mixing it with the big stuff from day one and I feel it has given me much more confidence with the radio than if I had learned at a small flying club.
If you are happy training in a 2-seat a/c (i.e C-152 or Traumahawk) you can expect to pay about £140-150, with a four seater PA-28 or similar costing around £160-170. For arguments sake lets say 45x150 best case is £6750. I pay £20+VAT landing fees for the privilege of training at an international airport and am currently up to 93 landings in my book so another £2000 or so there. Plus books, exam fees, charts, a headset, etc. is another £1000 or so. That gives us a very rough, realistic total of around £10,000.
There are ways to do it cheaper, the LAPL requires fewer hours of training but restricts you in ways which may or may not matter depending on the type of flying you would like to do once qualified. Microlights are cheaper again and the modern machines will outperform your standard 1960's vintage flight school aircraft in almost every way. Definitely worth considering if you want to keep down the costs.
Choose your school wisely. Frequently switching instructors can add hours to the process. Do your homework, it is much cheaper learning the theory on the ground than in the air. The better prepared you are for each lesson the more you can focus on the flying part. Weigh up whether the extra cost of a large airport is worth it - for me I liked the idea of mixing it with the big stuff from day one and I feel it has given me much more confidence with the radio than if I had learned at a small flying club.
Testaburger said:
20k is an absolutely ridiculous quote for a PPL course. If that’s what you’re paying, you’ve been well and truly had.
6-8k (all-in) is the ballpark figure for a U.K. PPL in 50 hours.
^^^^^ this,6-8k (all-in) is the ballpark figure for a U.K. PPL in 50 hours.
Theres some crap sprouted on here in regards to costs!
Your either not looking around properly, restricted by how far you want to travel or your having to redo flights and training due to lack of continuity..
Paying upfront for a ppl at a well extablished flying club if you can do the course in quick succession is no big deal, CPL/ME/IR is where the big costs are and you dont pay all up front.
The link i posted is a fair price, from a club I fly at and an airfield I've flown from for 20 years, the lydd costs are a total rip off!!!!!!
Edited by r1flyguy1 on Sunday 1st July 12:52
Another link
http://www.southwarwickshireflyingschool.com/fees....
Edited by r1flyguy1 on Sunday 1st July 13:02
I'm astonished by the Lydd price if that's true. I'd expect to pay that for a helicopter not a spam can.
£120-140 per hour is reasonable.
But as others have mentioned, adding landing fees adds up (esp. if you are doing circuits at a full atc airfield) and then there's kit, charts etc.
Continuity is key, you ideally need to be doing one lesson per week with the same instructor. Go more than a week, or have a different instructor, and you will find yourself not making as much progress as you could.
You also have to factor in the great British weather which can have its own impact on your flying schedule.
£10K for a PPL in the UK is about right as a ballpark.
£120-140 per hour is reasonable.
But as others have mentioned, adding landing fees adds up (esp. if you are doing circuits at a full atc airfield) and then there's kit, charts etc.
Continuity is key, you ideally need to be doing one lesson per week with the same instructor. Go more than a week, or have a different instructor, and you will find yourself not making as much progress as you could.
You also have to factor in the great British weather which can have its own impact on your flying schedule.
£10K for a PPL in the UK is about right as a ballpark.
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