do Caterham’s attract quick drivers
Discussion
Just think this forum is getting a bit quiet so here’s a topic that may provoke discussion.
I’ve noticed over the years doing ( non competitive) track days that you come across some fabulous machinery that should absolutely kick the Caterham’s in the ass, such as Atoms, Ultimas, Crossbows. It just doesn’t seem to be the case though so it got me to thinking that these other types must attract a different type of driver to the habitual caterham addict ( cos let’s face it that’s what it is) . Spec wise these three are pretty damn good and occasionally you get a quick atom but as a rule they don’t seem to sparkle. The moto journos always seemed to rate these 3 , Klaxon and needle for instance, so does this info attract a certain type of buyer.
So often you’ll see a fairly modest powered caterham whizz past practically everything, and you can add Some of the Caterclones as well. Though if you’re going to take one of these and make it quick you can obviously peddle pretty well and wouldn’t necessarily have the 50 k plus required to buy the above.
Just a thought!!
Oh and don’t mention 911drivers who do anything to stay ahead, I used to be one by the way until I got fed up being overtaken by my pals in Caterham’s .
I’ve noticed over the years doing ( non competitive) track days that you come across some fabulous machinery that should absolutely kick the Caterham’s in the ass, such as Atoms, Ultimas, Crossbows. It just doesn’t seem to be the case though so it got me to thinking that these other types must attract a different type of driver to the habitual caterham addict ( cos let’s face it that’s what it is) . Spec wise these three are pretty damn good and occasionally you get a quick atom but as a rule they don’t seem to sparkle. The moto journos always seemed to rate these 3 , Klaxon and needle for instance, so does this info attract a certain type of buyer.
So often you’ll see a fairly modest powered caterham whizz past practically everything, and you can add Some of the Caterclones as well. Though if you’re going to take one of these and make it quick you can obviously peddle pretty well and wouldn’t necessarily have the 50 k plus required to buy the above.
Just a thought!!
Oh and don’t mention 911drivers who do anything to stay ahead, I used to be one by the way until I got fed up being overtaken by my pals in Caterham’s .
If anything I'd say certain high performance cars attract (without wanting to offend anyone) people that aren't really drivers/true car aficionados.
I'm not too shabby on track on bikes or cars and can go past most people on a trackday in my supersport.
While I'd like to claim to be a driving god a lot of it is down to the balance and predictability of the caterham chassis that makes it so easy to drive at the limit. Having said that I did once take a BMW 120d to bedford and spent the day lapping almost everything by virtue of incredibly late / borderline reckless braking so maybe a bit of both. Got to love that ABS.
I'm not too shabby on track on bikes or cars and can go past most people on a trackday in my supersport.
While I'd like to claim to be a driving god a lot of it is down to the balance and predictability of the caterham chassis that makes it so easy to drive at the limit. Having said that I did once take a BMW 120d to bedford and spent the day lapping almost everything by virtue of incredibly late / borderline reckless braking so maybe a bit of both. Got to love that ABS.
Brett Nield said:
So often you’ll see a fairly modest powered caterham whizz past practically everything, and you can add Some of the Caterclones as well. Though if you’re going to take one of these and make it quick you can obviously peddle pretty well and wouldn’t necessarily have the 50 k plus required to buy the above.
Just a thought!!
Just a thought!!
573 said:
I'd say the opposite. Generally on track Caterhams are mobile chicanes. I think they attract enthusiasts, but not necessarily drivers.
Isn't that typical Pistonheads 
The above difference of opinion is most likely explained by the type of circuit you go to..........
Every year, I take my Roadsport 125 to Goodwood for a Club Lotus day, The Supercharged Elises/Exiges/Evoras leave me for dead on the straights, but they find it harder to drop me through the corners despite the fact they are running trackday rubber and I'm on Uniroyals. At a slower, tighter track with a quicker driver than me, their power advantage wouldn't count anywhere near so much.
I think there are several reasons why Caterhams (and other Sevens) go faster than other drivers think they should on trackdays:
1. They really are light (so obvious but I have to say it
), so they can corner faster, accelerate faster and stop quicker than heavier cars.2. The tyres, brake pads etc are really cheap to replace and they don't overheat despite hard driving unlike many other performance cars when taken on track.
3. Drivers who buy Caterhams are really into driving, without electronic aids etc as a safety net so in most cases will at least have some skill behind the wheel.
4. Repairing a Seven after a crash may not be cheap, but compared with some other super/performance cars the repair bills are peanuts and can be done at home by a competent mechanic (I span my Seven and it cost me new rear wing: £138 including VAT!)
The reason Caterhams go slower than expected on trackdays:
1. Really bad aerodynamics- mine is flat out at 110mph
It is impossible to generalise.
To go fast in a Caterham I think you have to work the car more, get it to rotate and be comfortable driving like that. I know after many years driving Radicals and Junos on track days and some racing, you have to work harder to go almost as fast in a powerful Caterham. I prefer it, you exercise a greater part of your driving repertoire.
Are they slow? Haha. Here's a photo passing under the gantry at the Ring on my first ever trip there. In a 620R, 7 min 40 bridge to gantry with 2 up. There was much more time on the table too.
In short, you cannot generalise. But I do find Caterham drivers to be friendly and helpful and very knowledgeable about their cars.
To go fast in a Caterham I think you have to work the car more, get it to rotate and be comfortable driving like that. I know after many years driving Radicals and Junos on track days and some racing, you have to work harder to go almost as fast in a powerful Caterham. I prefer it, you exercise a greater part of your driving repertoire.
Are they slow? Haha. Here's a photo passing under the gantry at the Ring on my first ever trip there. In a 620R, 7 min 40 bridge to gantry with 2 up. There was much more time on the table too.
In short, you cannot generalise. But I do find Caterham drivers to be friendly and helpful and very knowledgeable about their cars.
CycleSi said:
Can you post up the link to your 'Ring lap please as I would like to see it (and many others too I imagine).
I'm back out there for the 6th time in a few weeks and hoping to crack 8:30 in my R300.
Many thanks, CycleSi
Not uploaded it yet just did a screen shot but will see what I can doI'm back out there for the 6th time in a few weeks and hoping to crack 8:30 in my R300.
Many thanks, CycleSi
A massive generalisation again and my own personal opinion (mostly gleaned from L7 Club trackdays), but you can usually see 2 distinct ‘types’ of Caterham owners. Type 1 have the car for the sake of having a ‘purist’ 2-seater sportscar, they are in it for the enjoyment of (maybe building it), owning and maintaining it in addition to driving it. Type 2 is the latter- the drive is the number one attraction and a Caterham’s main attributes I.e. its lack of weight, communicative chassis etc. make it a (relatively) cheap, rewarding drive on track. Type 1 will keep his / her car for years, or will have a succession of 7s, Type 2 will progress onto whatever the next track day car ‘of choice’ is around, it was common a few years back to see the enthusiastic 7 drivers go onto Radicals in particular.
Despite having misguided (.,. due to lack of talent) tendencies towards Type 2, I was only ever a ‘Type 1’. That is not to say these guys don’t have more than a modicum of driving talent. IME on mixed make track days you will usually find even Type 1-ers in relatively modest powered, road based Caterhams able to mix it with more exotic or powerful machinery. It’s an entusiast’s car, it wiill attract enthusiastic drivers.
Despite having misguided (.,. due to lack of talent) tendencies towards Type 2, I was only ever a ‘Type 1’. That is not to say these guys don’t have more than a modicum of driving talent. IME on mixed make track days you will usually find even Type 1-ers in relatively modest powered, road based Caterhams able to mix it with more exotic or powerful machinery. It’s an entusiast’s car, it wiill attract enthusiastic drivers.
K800 RUM said:
Just reading your max speed on track Duncan, mine must be much the same. Have you thought about going aero? I have had Brooklands screens fitted for the last couple of years, great fun.
All the best.
You're right, an aero screen might get me another 5-10 mph, but I do like my screen for getting to and from the circuit All the best.
I used to buy expensive cars and track them. That eventually stopped after a. I got fed up being over taken by caterfields, b. I got fed up with the £1,000+ bills to replace consumables after every event (pass, tyres, other stuff).
After much consideration of all the options, I went for a Caterham because it seemed to offer the best track day and country road package - pace, value for money, universally liked by Joe Public, potential for home spannering of most stuff, relatively reliable and could get into any track day (unlike radicals). The final confirmation came after a PalmerSport day at Bedford (highly recommended) when I got to drive a Caterham for the first time and thought it was the most fun and best handling car of the day. That was it, I had to have one.
After 11 years of Caterham ownership, I still think it’s the daddy for my mission brief. Doubt I’ll ever sell it. It’s plenty quick enough on track and the handling, when properly set up is the closet I’ve come to a kart on the road.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to be able to buy something special like a Speciale, or GT Porsche, but I don’t see how it would be much faster on track, if at all, and I just couldn’t stomach the track running costs anyway (and that’s before you mention the dreaded ‘investment’ word)...
After much consideration of all the options, I went for a Caterham because it seemed to offer the best track day and country road package - pace, value for money, universally liked by Joe Public, potential for home spannering of most stuff, relatively reliable and could get into any track day (unlike radicals). The final confirmation came after a PalmerSport day at Bedford (highly recommended) when I got to drive a Caterham for the first time and thought it was the most fun and best handling car of the day. That was it, I had to have one.
After 11 years of Caterham ownership, I still think it’s the daddy for my mission brief. Doubt I’ll ever sell it. It’s plenty quick enough on track and the handling, when properly set up is the closet I’ve come to a kart on the road.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to be able to buy something special like a Speciale, or GT Porsche, but I don’t see how it would be much faster on track, if at all, and I just couldn’t stomach the track running costs anyway (and that’s before you mention the dreaded ‘investment’ word)...
Yes the radical and XTR are a logical step and both easy to drive quickly. The chap who owns Radical , who’s name will come to me in the middle of the night, took me round Spa a few years ago and I was blown away by the performance. Didn’t buy one though, bought an R 400K instead. A pal of mine did buy but came back to Caterham 2 years later. Also there is an appeal in meeting up and playing with similar powered and handling cars, it sort of gives you the buzz without the expense and dedication required for racing. In my opinion anyway. Ah think the chap was called Hyde.
God only knows I am no driving god but in the decade of track days I did in my Sevens the only cars I encountered which made me feel slow were quicker Sevens and, once , a pair of practising Carrera Cup Porsches driven by pro racers . I never ceased to be amazed at how much later I could brake than sundry Carlos Fandango GTRs , BMWs and AMGs and once overtook a GT 2 and GT3 Porsche in successive laps . Obviously they were even more useless than I was , but doing that in a 15k car with 160bhp I couldn't help but smile .
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If not as much as when the R500 outpaced the silly Veyron at Dunsfold ....
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If not as much as when the R500 outpaced the silly Veyron at Dunsfold ....
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