Is christianity not a religion?
Discussion
I'm just watching an episode of Around The World in 80 Treasures I missed where Dan heads into France and to Chartres Cathedral. He says "Chartres Cathedral is not a great religious treasure because it's Christian". I'm lost as to what he means - how come because it's a Christian symbol it's not a religious symbol?
I'll freely admit I know little about religions and the like so am guessing something is up with regard to the authencity of Christianity as religion...?
I'll freely admit I know little about religions and the like so am guessing something is up with regard to the authencity of Christianity as religion...?
In my humble opinion, Christianity may be a complete load of rubbish, but people believe in it so it's still a religion.
Other people, like my mate Trent, are slightly more critical:
he sewed his eyes shut because he was afraid to see
he tries to tell me what i pit inside of me
he's got the answers to ease my curiosity
he dreamed a god up and called it christianity
you god is dead and no one cares
if there is a hell i will see you there
he flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
he made a virus that would kill off all the swine
his perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
demands devotion atrocities done in his name
you god is dead and no one cares
drowning in his own hypocrisy
and if there is a hell i will see you there
burning with your god in humility
will you die for this?
>> Edited by DanBoy on Sunday 1st May 22:29
Other people, like my mate Trent, are slightly more critical:
he sewed his eyes shut because he was afraid to see
he tries to tell me what i pit inside of me
he's got the answers to ease my curiosity
he dreamed a god up and called it christianity
you god is dead and no one cares
if there is a hell i will see you there
he flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
he made a virus that would kill off all the swine
his perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
demands devotion atrocities done in his name
you god is dead and no one cares
drowning in his own hypocrisy
and if there is a hell i will see you there
burning with your god in humility
will you die for this?
>> Edited by DanBoy on Sunday 1st May 22:29
docevi1 said:
"Chartres Cathedral is not a great religious treasure because it's Christian".
I think that what he means is that there are no really great Christian monuments, compared to other of the worlds religions. I can see his point, even the grandest of cathedrals is just a big building for worship and they are all pretty samey.
Can you think of any christian monuments that are up on a par with the other 80 treasures?
He didnt bother with the shroud of Turin did he? maybe because it is unsubstantiated?
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 1st May 22:33
me personally? No, not one but then I know very little about the various religions. It just intrigued me as to why he said that specifically, it was almost as if he was saying that christianity isn't a religion in his eyes.
edit:: I do see what you are meaning however, but someone correct me if I'm wrong with the following:
Christianity isn't actually a religion in itself, but the amalgamation of many others which were previously beaten into submission. From what I understand the religion is formed from various others around the world (worship of the sun, a single god etc) and that it's just the current incarnation. It's also a fairly recent religion in comparison to the rest of the world is it not?
>> Edited by docevi1 on Sunday 1st May 22:41
edit:: I do see what you are meaning however, but someone correct me if I'm wrong with the following:
Christianity isn't actually a religion in itself, but the amalgamation of many others which were previously beaten into submission. From what I understand the religion is formed from various others around the world (worship of the sun, a single god etc) and that it's just the current incarnation. It's also a fairly recent religion in comparison to the rest of the world is it not?
>> Edited by docevi1 on Sunday 1st May 22:41
His comment could also be taken as a compliment to Christianity though. No big flash stuff has been put up, it's all very plain & simple. I dont think he was deriding Christianity, just saying that because its Christian, by definition, there isnt anything important to show in terms of treasure.
Trooper2 said:He had that in an earlier episode, can't remember what he said it related to mind.
I've never been there but have always thought that this is a cool symbol of Christianity, in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I'm surprised that it wasn't considered. Or is it considered Catholic and not included in Christianity as they were using the term?
docevi1 said:
so what does Christianity actually stand for? It's the bible isn't it? And whilst I'm on the topic where does Catholics and Protestants come in, is it under the veil of Christianity?
just to point out, I don't consider myself religious, but have no issue with others doing so
In my opinion (as someone who never goes to church), the premise of Christianity is atonement, forgiveness, and redemption. You do something wrong, own up for it, ask for forgiveness, and then move on and try not to do it again. The point of Christ dying on the cross is that we can never do enough to make up for all the wrong, hurt, and mistakes we've done as human beings to each other while on earth. The idea is that it takes some faith to believe that what's good and worthwhile about you can be separated from all the bad stuff you've done, so that you can try to do better and not be dragged down by your past. Asking for forgiveness is a way of acknowledging your wrongdoing and asking for help to move on in your life. People who can't forgive themselves or others live in the past, and essentially die a little bit as they waste their life on what could have/should have been instead of taking responsibility and moving on. So the son of God dying on the Cross is relieving you of a debt you could never pay. It's like saying that God knows you're bound to screw up because you can't judge perfectly, but if you act in good faith, there's still something redeemable. It is meant to be a compassionate religion, but naturally the original intent gets quite skewed by people who interpret it for there social and political agendas. All the antisemitic, inquisitorial, violence in the name of any faith is really just usurping the name of faith or God to further your own petty goals. It's not the faith, but the people who are the problem with most religions. Catholics, Protestants, Russian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Quakers, Baptists, Methodists, Pentacostals, Lutherans etc. are all variants of Christianity. Personally, I consider them all to be Christian, though they will argue amongst themselves who is really "Christian". They have the same major holidays, which have the same meaning in their view of humanity; so in my view, if you celebrate Christmas and Easter, and it means something to you, then you're participating in Christianity. The Jews also use the bible, but theirs is the old testament, not the new, and they have the Torah, and the Talmud, though I don't know the significance of these documents. Christianity is younger than Judaism (it branched off of Judaism), but older than Islam. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all have the same god. We could also say that the Jews don't have any major monuments to their religion, even though they do have historically significant sites, so some people would consider this an unfair remark. There are many religiously significant and historical mosques, both in Palestine and in other parts of the middle east. I bet there'd be a bit of an outcry if he said there were no historically significant Islamic sites, even though it's younger than Christianity.
I think this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. All the architecture in the Vatican, the Sistine Chapel, these things are artistically and historically significant, as well as, since they were the tallest stable structures at the time, sites of architectural and engineering innovation. Maybe he's seen so many cathedrals that they don't seem unique and special?
seafarer said:
Catholics, Protestants, Russian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Quakers, Baptists, Methodists, Pentacostals, Lutherans etc. are all variants of Christianity. Personally, I consider them all to be Christian, though they will argue amongst themselves who is really "Christian".
www.atheist-community.org/atheisteve/index.php?id=5Balmoral Green said:
"Chartres Cathedral is not a great religious treasure because it's Christian".
I think that what he means is that there are no really great Christian monuments, compared to other of the worlds religions. I can see his point, even the grandest of cathedrals is just a big building for worship and they are all pretty samey.
Can you think of any christian monuments that are up on a par with the other 80 treasures?
He didnt bother with the shroud of Turin did he? maybe because it is unsubstantiated?
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 1st May 22:33
He made a most unfortunate choice in Chartres for two reasons; the first is the fact that it has the highest span of any cathedral in the world, so much so that they have had to temporarily shore up the support pillars with timber due to vibration damage from traffic.
The second is because it's in France.
Most if not all of the cathedral architecture was built and designed by the Knights Templar and their Master Masons, and only when buildings like Notre Dame are fully studied can a true appreciation of the ability of these people be appreciated.
The telluric arches that support the cathedral and weigh hundreds of tons are harmonically tuned to resonate at various sections of the musical scale; I have sat in the knave at a concert when the organ, a classical orchestra, and a full choir were assaulting the walls with wave after wave of music and watched grown men reduced to tears at the sheer joy of it.
The huge radial windows on each side of the knave are fitted with a type of glass that filters out ultra violet light and converts it to heat energy to warm the interior of the cathedral.
The technology used to build these structures was of ancient Masonic origin, in other words Egyptian, or possibly even earlier.
To suggest that these buildings are anything other than magnificent and on a par with the pyramids is ridiculous in the extreme, and demonstrates an ignorance of their true significance.
There is no doubt that Jesus was a remarkable man, but to believe in Christianity and all the duplicate, follow-on religions subsequent to it, you have to accept the principle of his resurrection as being a real event, a literal miracle.
To be a Muslim you have to accept that Muhamed was truly God's profit, he could literally speak to God and get answers back.
To believe in the spirit of mankind, you only have to go to Notre Dame and listen to the music and feel the building penetrate your soul; you then have no doubt about the Templars and the legacy that they left.
No "blind faith" or bigotry or lies, just wonderful, tangible ability.
There is a pretty simple answer to "what do Christians believe?". This question was addressed pretty rigorously in the 4th Century and led to the statement known as the "Nicene Creed". It is accepted by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, and many other Christian groups as the fundamental statement of their belief. Anyone who doesn't agree with it is a pretty strange type of Christian. Quite a lot of it won't make much sense unless you've read chunks of the Bible, but the gist is pretty clear. Herewith is a standard translation:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
p.s. you'll note it says "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church" which might seem rather odd coming out of the mouth of an Anglican or Lutheran. It means that they believe the current Church of Rome is not the "real" catholic church. They see themselves as the true upholders of the catholic tradition, and the Church of Rome as being something of a corruption of the "true" faith. Sane chaps like Ian Paisley go so far as to suggest that the Pope is in fact the Devil.
>> Edited by ATG on Monday 2nd May 18:31
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
p.s. you'll note it says "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church" which might seem rather odd coming out of the mouth of an Anglican or Lutheran. It means that they believe the current Church of Rome is not the "real" catholic church. They see themselves as the true upholders of the catholic tradition, and the Church of Rome as being something of a corruption of the "true" faith. Sane chaps like Ian Paisley go so far as to suggest that the Pope is in fact the Devil.
>> Edited by ATG on Monday 2nd May 18:31
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