Are the police powerless?
Discussion
Mrs Surveyor works on a hospital maternity unit.
Just picked her up from work and there is a guy camped outside who is known for guns offences. Weeks ago he was being hunted around a neighbouring town for waving a gun around.
He is banned from the hospital and his gf who is being induced and his mother are allowed in. They came in and let him into the hospital so police came and told him off. They left him parked illegally in his car with these two women coming in and our all day while he gets parking tickets. He has attacked nhs staff before and is down as a safe guarding issue to babies children etc.soon as it's born he it will be taken as she has been told he can't been involved.
Is it just me who thinks it's as s
t show they leave him outside the front doors where he has been camped all day scaring staff?
I would of said offsite after he trespassed in the hospital
Just picked her up from work and there is a guy camped outside who is known for guns offences. Weeks ago he was being hunted around a neighbouring town for waving a gun around.
He is banned from the hospital and his gf who is being induced and his mother are allowed in. They came in and let him into the hospital so police came and told him off. They left him parked illegally in his car with these two women coming in and our all day while he gets parking tickets. He has attacked nhs staff before and is down as a safe guarding issue to babies children etc.soon as it's born he it will be taken as she has been told he can't been involved.
Is it just me who thinks it's as s
t show they leave him outside the front doors where he has been camped all day scaring staff?I would of said offsite after he trespassed in the hospital
Edited by surveyor_101 on Thursday 5th July 21:22
It probably going to depend if he's committed a crime. What do you mean by banned?
My experience would be if the NHS don't want someone on the premises the police will remove them. This law generally covers that: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/8...
The NHS are also an organisation who can apply for a civil injunction if they so wish.
My experience would be if the NHS don't want someone on the premises the police will remove them. This law generally covers that: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/8...
The NHS are also an organisation who can apply for a civil injunction if they so wish.
He is banned as a safe guarding issue I blieve .
You think police we're rught, we talking arse and Somerset, I mean if he was black they would tasered him in the face. He is just a bridgwater scally
Aer link
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/...
You think police we're rught, we talking arse and Somerset, I mean if he was black they would tasered him in the face. He is just a bridgwater scally
Aer link
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/...
If he's not committed a crime then there's little that can be done. If he wants to get a bunch of parking tickets, let him, most of your bog standard response cops are not that interested in dealing with poor parking.
If someone from the hospital makes a complaint that he's harassing, alarming, distressing them with his behaviour and words then it might go somewhere as they could lock him up for public order, but it depends on what he's actually doing. From what it sounds like, he was trespassing which is a civil matter, police can remove a tresspasser but it's not a criminal offence. And after he's been removed there's nothing else that can be done.
If someone from the hospital makes a complaint that he's harassing, alarming, distressing them with his behaviour and words then it might go somewhere as they could lock him up for public order, but it depends on what he's actually doing. From what it sounds like, he was trespassing which is a civil matter, police can remove a tresspasser but it's not a criminal offence. And after he's been removed there's nothing else that can be done.
Chalkius said:
If he's not committed a crime then there's little that can be done. If he wants to get a bunch of parking tickets, let him, most of your bog standard response cops are not that interested in dealing with poor parking.
If someone from the hospital makes a complaint that he's harassing, alarming, distressing them with his behaviour and words then it might go somewhere as they could lock him up for public order, but it depends on what he's actually doing. From what it sounds like, he was trespassing which is a civil matter, police can remove a tresspasser but it's not a criminal offence. And after he's been removed there's nothing else that can be done.
He has a tonne of previous and something to do with harming children hence he is not allowed his child or in a maternity unit. He has previous for assaulting hospital staff as well.If someone from the hospital makes a complaint that he's harassing, alarming, distressing them with his behaviour and words then it might go somewhere as they could lock him up for public order, but it depends on what he's actually doing. From what it sounds like, he was trespassing which is a civil matter, police can remove a tresspasser but it's not a criminal offence. And after he's been removed there's nothing else that can be done.
His photo is on the red alert board and all staff felt uncomfortable working with him outside trying to get in. He threatened to commit suicide at one point.
I think he should of been removed from site! Not camping in the drop off bay blocking expectant mothers from being dropped off and in labour.
His gf and her mother (who apparently is going to be the babies guardian so social don't take the kid of the couple) kept entering and exit the unit and leaving the door open so they pose a security risk.
As usual as he hasn't upset the speeding police he a typical chav so he has more lives than a cat and do what he pleases and the police do very little.
Lost count of the amount of time police can use their powers/existent or not to get someone out of somewhere they wnated.
Avon and Somerset have time to police motorway service private access roads and stop highways england and hotel guests gaining access but not this guy!
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 6th July 09:30
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 6th July 09:31
Did hospital security go and tell him to leave?
If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool.
If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool.
It's all a matter of perspective. The other view of this is:
"I saw this guy outside the hospital dragged away kicking and screaming by a load of burly police officers, but he had not broken any laws. Don't they have anything better to do like stopping people illegally using slip roads, which I see all the time."
Simple trespass is a civil matter and the landowner has to try to remove the person, Police, subject to resources may stand by to make sure there is not a breach of the peace whilst the landowner is doing this but, if they leave quietly and come back after the police have left we are back to square one. If they help the landowner then they are acting as any other person it is not in the execution of their duty.
"I saw this guy outside the hospital dragged away kicking and screaming by a load of burly police officers, but he had not broken any laws. Don't they have anything better to do like stopping people illegally using slip roads, which I see all the time."
Simple trespass is a civil matter and the landowner has to try to remove the person, Police, subject to resources may stand by to make sure there is not a breach of the peace whilst the landowner is doing this but, if they leave quietly and come back after the police have left we are back to square one. If they help the landowner then they are acting as any other person it is not in the execution of their duty.
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 6th July 10:25
[quote=Greendubber]Did hospital security go and tell him to leave?
If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool. [/quote
If he needed treatment happy days.
He isn't allowed in maternity due to not being allowed near babies or children due to child protection. I would say that's grounds to ask him to leave. He entered the ward when his gf opened the door.
Security watched him on CCTV and will only talk to him with police present as he is known to resist not sure if police advise watch him on CCTV.
He previously has had a do not approach notice for police when he was wanted.
I agree he should be neutered!
This country has gone to rats when he can intimidate staff outside the ward and police do nothing.
He was asked to leave after he entered the building yes. He just went back outside.
If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool. [/quote
If he needed treatment happy days.
He isn't allowed in maternity due to not being allowed near babies or children due to child protection. I would say that's grounds to ask him to leave. He entered the ward when his gf opened the door.
Security watched him on CCTV and will only talk to him with police present as he is known to resist not sure if police advise watch him on CCTV.
He previously has had a do not approach notice for police when he was wanted.
I agree he should be neutered!
This country has gone to rats when he can intimidate staff outside the ward and police do nothing.
He was asked to leave after he entered the building yes. He just went back outside.
surveyor_101 said:
He has a tonne of previous and something to do with harming children hence he is not allowed his child or in a maternity unit. He has previous for assaulting hospital staff as well.
His photo is on the red alert board and all staff felt uncomfortable working with him outside trying to get in. He threatened to commit suicide at one point.
I think he should of been removed from site! Not camping in the drop off bay blocking expectant mothers from being dropped off and in labour.
His gf and her mother (who apparently is going to be the babies guardian so social don't take the kid of the couple) kept entering and exit the unit and leaving the door open so they pose a security risk.
As usual as he hasn't upset the speeding police he a typical chav so he has more lives than a cat and do what he pleases and the police do very little.
Lost count of the amount of time police can use their powers/existent or not to get someone out of somewhere they wnated.
Avon and Somerset have time to police motorway service private access roads and stop highways england and hotel guests gaining access but not this guy!
Sounds like he wasn't committing any offences they could remove him for though. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like he's on the borderline of committing public order offences if he's making people concerned by his behaviour, but if he's not actually done anything there's little that can be done. The hospital or council should seek a court order of some kind that will provide a power of arrest if he enters even the car park or hovers around the entrance. His photo is on the red alert board and all staff felt uncomfortable working with him outside trying to get in. He threatened to commit suicide at one point.
I think he should of been removed from site! Not camping in the drop off bay blocking expectant mothers from being dropped off and in labour.
His gf and her mother (who apparently is going to be the babies guardian so social don't take the kid of the couple) kept entering and exit the unit and leaving the door open so they pose a security risk.
As usual as he hasn't upset the speeding police he a typical chav so he has more lives than a cat and do what he pleases and the police do very little.
Lost count of the amount of time police can use their powers/existent or not to get someone out of somewhere they wnated.
Avon and Somerset have time to police motorway service private access roads and stop highways england and hotel guests gaining access but not this guy!
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 6th July 09:30
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 6th July 09:31
Different police departments do different jobs. I don't do traffic policing for the most part and traffic cops don't do response policing for the most part. Besides, it's not a matter of manpower when this person hasn't committed offences that he can be removed for.
He hadn't committed any offences so quite rightly the Police could not do anything. If the hospital apply for some sort of court order this would solve this as there would then be more powers available.
Nothing to do with your rant about traffic Police though. They wouldn't get sent to this type of job in the first place as like you said... They are traffic Police.
Nothing to do with your rant about traffic Police though. They wouldn't get sent to this type of job in the first place as like you said... They are traffic Police.
surveyor_101 said:
Greendubber said:
Did hospital security go and tell him to leave?
If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool.
If he needed treatment happy days.If he's not committed an offence then there's not much that can be done. A lot of hospital grounds are 'private land' so the policing of the car parks are carried out by 3rd party security/parking companies.
I know you said he has 'previous' but without a specific order he can't be made to leave unless he's performing. It's Iike saying 'Jim got locked up for a drunken fight, let's stop him going into the town centre at the weekend'
Without a specific asbo/crasbo type order to keep him away and as long as he's not misbehaving then it's down to the hospital to deal with it.
He sounds like a complete POS though, anyone who kicks off with NHS staff deserves immediate illimination from the gene pool.
He isn't allowed in maternity due to not being allowed near babies or children due to child protection. I would say that's grounds to ask him to leave. He entered the ward when his gf opened the door.
Security watched him on CCTV and will only talk to him with police present as he is known to resist not sure if police advise watch him on CCTV.
He previously has had a do not approach notice for police when he was wanted.
I agree he should be neutered!
This country has gone to rats when he can intimidate staff outside the ward and police do nothing.
He was asked to leave after he entered the building yes. He just went back outside.
The security sound like the ones that aren't fit for purpose but that's a common theme with hospital security.
There's no such police marker for 'do not approach'
Greendubber said:
Someone being sat in a car is not enough for the police to come and march him off the premises.
The security sound like the ones that aren't fit for purpose but that's a common theme with hospital security.
There's no such police marker for 'do not approach'
Not a police marker for officers, police advice when he was being hunted by the police chopper etc was for the 'public do not approach' and security staff normally fall into that category. For £10 an hour are you going to risk it? The security sound like the ones that aren't fit for purpose but that's a common theme with hospital security.
There's no such police marker for 'do not approach'
Security attend when he entered the building other than that they watched him on cctv.
surveyor_101 said:
Greendubber said:
Someone being sat in a car is not enough for the police to come and march him off the premises.
The security sound like the ones that aren't fit for purpose but that's a common theme with hospital security.
There's no such police marker for 'do not approach'
Not a police marker for officers, police advice when he was being hunted by the police chopper etc was for the 'public do not approach' and security staff normally fall into that category. For £10 an hour are you going to risk it?The security sound like the ones that aren't fit for purpose but that's a common theme with hospital security.
There's no such police marker for 'do not approach'
surveyor_101 said:
He previously has had a do not approach notice for police when he was wanted.
As for this...surveyor_101 said:
Security attend when he entered the building other than that they watched him on cctv.
Sounds fair enough really, if he's sat in his car and they don't want to go and do their job then at least they're monitoring him. He's no doubt a POS but the police have to act within the powers granted to them and on the face of it they were powerless in this situation. If the hospital want him off the grounds for good they need to get an injunction/court order with a power of arrest for any breaches. Especially as it's their staff that are being exposed to his behaviour.
My take is he is not allowed near the babies so camped by the exit making them go pass him is not fair, plus the staff felt they were placed in an unsafe situation.
I have seen the police with or without grounds ask people to leave an area. This is seems a good time to tell leave or he will be arrested for a public order offence.
By hanging around and attempting to gain access to secure ward with babies.
public order> section 17a - disorderly conduct is a fairly broad one, threatening to kill himself he could have been sectioned or detained under mental health.
These bog standard response officers have no imagination!
I have seen the police with or without grounds ask people to leave an area. This is seems a good time to tell leave or he will be arrested for a public order offence.
By hanging around and attempting to gain access to secure ward with babies.
public order> section 17a - disorderly conduct is a fairly broad one, threatening to kill himself he could have been sectioned or detained under mental health.
These bog standard response officers have no imagination!
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 6th July 11:58
surveyor_101 said:
Mrs Surveyor works on a hospital maternity unit.
Just picked her up from work and there is a guy camped outside who is known for guns offences. Weeks ago he was being hunted around a neighbouring town for waving a gun around.
He is banned from the hospital and his gf who is being induced and his mother are allowed in. They came in and let him into the hospital so police came and told him off. They left him parked illegally in his car with these two women coming in and our all day while he gets parking tickets. He has attacked nhs staff before and is down as a safe guarding issue to babies children etc.soon as it's born he it will be taken as she has been told he can't been involved.
Is it just me who thinks it's as st show they leave him outside the front doors where he has been camped all day scaring staff?
I would of said offsite after he trespassed in the hospital
Only 2 hospitals in Somerset, I would be very careful posting information like this in a modern data concious society.Just picked her up from work and there is a guy camped outside who is known for guns offences. Weeks ago he was being hunted around a neighbouring town for waving a gun around.
He is banned from the hospital and his gf who is being induced and his mother are allowed in. They came in and let him into the hospital so police came and told him off. They left him parked illegally in his car with these two women coming in and our all day while he gets parking tickets. He has attacked nhs staff before and is down as a safe guarding issue to babies children etc.soon as it's born he it will be taken as she has been told he can't been involved.
Is it just me who thinks it's as s
t show they leave him outside the front doors where he has been camped all day scaring staff?I would of said offsite after he trespassed in the hospital
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 5th July 21:22
Your wife could easily be identified from what you have posted, and a discussion about someones complicated birth or life could result in your wifes sacking.
Think about it.
Nhs confidential? Obviously not.
BAM225 said:
Only 2 hospitals in *** would be very careful posting information like this in a modern data concious society.
Your wife could easily be identified from what you have posted, and a discussion about someones complicated birth or life could result in your wifes sacking.
Think about it.
Nhs confidential? Obviously not.
Point taken.Your wife could easily be identified from what you have posted, and a discussion about someones complicated birth or life could result in your wifes sacking.
Think about it.
Nhs confidential? Obviously not.
Regardless of whether the police could have removed him in the actual, specific circumstances (I would speculate they could 'bend' something to fit the legislation I posted in my first reply - 'nuisance' is quite open), if he's specifically a pain to the NHS then your wife's management should be questioning why the NHS's legal department aren't taking action.
That's a much more proactive approach rather than the reactive, and sometimes inconsistent response of the police.
That's a much more proactive approach rather than the reactive, and sometimes inconsistent response of the police.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th July 14:39
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