The rise of the "professional" tradesman bodger?
Discussion
Does this affect all trades now?
I'm a self-taught clock repairer, mostly from books (pre-internet!) and a bit of guidance from time-served clockmakers. 25 years of doing paid work for customers, many years of fixing my own stuff before that.
Back in the day, most of the jobs that I got in hadn't been touched by anyone for donkey's years. Maybe a bit of oil added by an enthusiastic owner, or some running repairs by a well-meaning amateur.
A few bodges, but I could see that they were done to keep a clock with no real monetary value going at minimal cost. That's fair enough. If they hadn't been done, the clock would probably have been binned long ago.
Over the last few years, things have changed. I'm getting clocks in for repair than have been "professionally restored" at great cost with some appalling bodges and short cuts. New bushes fitted to worn holes (good), but the pivots left in a rough state so that the new bushes wear out. Old, tired and damaged springs refitted after cleaning (saving a few quid). Strike and chime trains set up incorrectly. Pins and levers bent to try and compensate for poor assembly, rather than spending an hour taking it apart and starting again. Unfinished repairs that are functional but aesthetically jarring. Reusing old and rusty tapered pins to save a few pennies. Traces of metal polish on (hidden from the customer) brass parts, as they haven't been cleaned properly. Rust on steel parts that aren't visible on the finished job.
Some of these clocks were repaired just a couple of years ago, costing the customers hundreds of pounds, by guys with letters after their names who really should know better. Some even have the gall to put stickers on the clocks, or "sign" the plates, advertising the fact that they did this sub-standard work.
I even get jobs where the customer says "it was repaired a couple of years ago by X, it's been back twice, and he says he's done all he can". Most of the time it's a relatively simple problem, just takes time and a bit of thought to figure out the cause.
I now ask customers "when was the clock last serviced, and who by?" so I have a good idea what to expect, and can price the job accordingly.
Do other trades suffer from the same problems, or is it just the fact that a lot of clock guys are getting on in years, and are doing the best they can?
I'm a self-taught clock repairer, mostly from books (pre-internet!) and a bit of guidance from time-served clockmakers. 25 years of doing paid work for customers, many years of fixing my own stuff before that.
Back in the day, most of the jobs that I got in hadn't been touched by anyone for donkey's years. Maybe a bit of oil added by an enthusiastic owner, or some running repairs by a well-meaning amateur.
A few bodges, but I could see that they were done to keep a clock with no real monetary value going at minimal cost. That's fair enough. If they hadn't been done, the clock would probably have been binned long ago.
Over the last few years, things have changed. I'm getting clocks in for repair than have been "professionally restored" at great cost with some appalling bodges and short cuts. New bushes fitted to worn holes (good), but the pivots left in a rough state so that the new bushes wear out. Old, tired and damaged springs refitted after cleaning (saving a few quid). Strike and chime trains set up incorrectly. Pins and levers bent to try and compensate for poor assembly, rather than spending an hour taking it apart and starting again. Unfinished repairs that are functional but aesthetically jarring. Reusing old and rusty tapered pins to save a few pennies. Traces of metal polish on (hidden from the customer) brass parts, as they haven't been cleaned properly. Rust on steel parts that aren't visible on the finished job.
Some of these clocks were repaired just a couple of years ago, costing the customers hundreds of pounds, by guys with letters after their names who really should know better. Some even have the gall to put stickers on the clocks, or "sign" the plates, advertising the fact that they did this sub-standard work.
I even get jobs where the customer says "it was repaired a couple of years ago by X, it's been back twice, and he says he's done all he can". Most of the time it's a relatively simple problem, just takes time and a bit of thought to figure out the cause.
I now ask customers "when was the clock last serviced, and who by?" so I have a good idea what to expect, and can price the job accordingly.
Do other trades suffer from the same problems, or is it just the fact that a lot of clock guys are getting on in years, and are doing the best they can?
I don't know about your trade but I think we longer live in an age where replace is easier and cheaper than repair.
Our washing machine started making some odd noises last year, just a few months outside of its warranty. I knew exactly what was wrong with it (worn bearing) and to be honest, if I had the time and inclination was within my capability to fix myself but as we pay for a Home Care service, we called them. They didn't even send someone to look at it - just said that they'd replace with a new one!!
I would imagine that for many trades, survival is about diversifying so you get jacks of all trades and increasingly fewer masters of one.
Our washing machine started making some odd noises last year, just a few months outside of its warranty. I knew exactly what was wrong with it (worn bearing) and to be honest, if I had the time and inclination was within my capability to fix myself but as we pay for a Home Care service, we called them. They didn't even send someone to look at it - just said that they'd replace with a new one!!
I would imagine that for many trades, survival is about diversifying so you get jacks of all trades and increasingly fewer masters of one.
There's an old saying amongst tradesmen (or any professional really) "If you think a professional is expensive, wait until you hire an amateur".
clockworks said:
Some of these clocks were repaired just a couple of years ago, costing the customers hundreds of pounds, by guys with letters after their names who really should know better. Some even have the gall to put stickers on the clocks, or "sign" the plates, advertising the fact that they did this sub-standard work.
The Dunning-Kruger effect or "unskilled and unaware of it". Some people are completely unaware of the shoddy jobs they do. clockworks said:
I now ask customers "when was the clock last serviced, and who by?" so I have a good idea what to expect, and can price the job accordingly.
Do other trades suffer from the same problems, or is it just the fact that a lot of clock guys are getting on in years, and are doing the best they can?
I think its not exclusive to any trade or profession. I've seen many a car ruined by substandard bodywork, not just repairs, I've seen a nice R33 GT-R ruined by a dreadful polishing job... Must have been incredibly incompetent (I'd heard that the same GT-R had blown its engine because the owner filled it up with RON91). I've seen many IT bodges in my career as a Systems Administrator, lots of things that make you pull your hair out and ask why.Do other trades suffer from the same problems, or is it just the fact that a lot of clock guys are getting on in years, and are doing the best they can?
Bodges are more and more common I'd expect, we live in a disposable society these days, so experienced 'fixers' are a rare breed.
Whilst talking about clocks, I have an old Anniversary clock (VERY similar to the pic below) I know next to nothing about it, it was the MIL's, I can get it to run for around 10 mins, but then it comes to a stop, my hunch is that the main spring has failed, feels very resistant to winding, am Ibodging investigating in the right direction?
Whilst talking about clocks, I have an old Anniversary clock (VERY similar to the pic below) I know next to nothing about it, it was the MIL's, I can get it to run for around 10 mins, but then it comes to a stop, my hunch is that the main spring has failed, feels very resistant to winding, am I
I actually had an experience of this at the weekend.
Needed some electrical work to satisfy building regulations for selling the house. Company 1: British. Said they'd need to take the feed from the light switch, raggle the ceiling from the light to the back wall. They'd probably break some of the stone work on the wall that would need fixed. They warned me about using "Pete the Pole" as the polish will take shortcuts. "No need for an isolator switch." These guys were not accredited.
"Company" 2: Polish guy. Fully UKAS accredited electrician. Small entry hole in the ceiling, which was hidden by light fittings, cable fed through the void at the top. "You will need an isolator for building regulations, I have one in the car." And told me what the first company were going to do broke another building regulation. He was also £110 cheaper than the British company.
Both were informed this had to be done to building regulations as it was being inspected soon.
Needed some electrical work to satisfy building regulations for selling the house. Company 1: British. Said they'd need to take the feed from the light switch, raggle the ceiling from the light to the back wall. They'd probably break some of the stone work on the wall that would need fixed. They warned me about using "Pete the Pole" as the polish will take shortcuts. "No need for an isolator switch." These guys were not accredited.
"Company" 2: Polish guy. Fully UKAS accredited electrician. Small entry hole in the ceiling, which was hidden by light fittings, cable fed through the void at the top. "You will need an isolator for building regulations, I have one in the car." And told me what the first company were going to do broke another building regulation. He was also £110 cheaper than the British company.
Both were informed this had to be done to building regulations as it was being inspected soon.
StevieBee said:
I don't know about your trade but I think we longer live in an age where replace is easier and cheaper than repair.
This probably sums it up. Unfortunately we live in a throw away society, and people only live for the moment rather than plan ahead.For example, about 5 years ago my parents neighbours had their garden completely re-landscaped as they were going to use it to host their daughters reception. New lawn, raised borders, decking and new fence panels all round. Must have cost thousands. But they've never spent any time maintaining it since, barring a mow maybe a couple of times a year. Looking at it now the grass is more like a hay field, borders are overgrown and full of weeds and some of the fence panels which were bodge repaired over the winter are hanging off.
Jonno02 said:
I actually had an experience of this at the weekend.
Needed some electrical work to satisfy building regulations for selling the house. Company 1: British. Said they'd need to take the feed from the light switch, raggle the ceiling from the light to the back wall. They'd probably break some of the stone work on the wall that would need fixed. They warned me about using "Pete the Pole" as the polish will take shortcuts. "No need for an isolator switch." These guys were not accredited.
"Company" 2: Polish guy. Fully UKAS accredited electrician. Small entry hole in the ceiling, which was hidden by light fittings, cable fed through the void at the top. "You will need an isolator for building regulations, I have one in the car." And told me what the first company were going to do broke another building regulation. He was also £110 cheaper than the British company.
Both were informed this had to be done to building regulations as it was being inspected soon.
Sounds about right.Needed some electrical work to satisfy building regulations for selling the house. Company 1: British. Said they'd need to take the feed from the light switch, raggle the ceiling from the light to the back wall. They'd probably break some of the stone work on the wall that would need fixed. They warned me about using "Pete the Pole" as the polish will take shortcuts. "No need for an isolator switch." These guys were not accredited.
"Company" 2: Polish guy. Fully UKAS accredited electrician. Small entry hole in the ceiling, which was hidden by light fittings, cable fed through the void at the top. "You will need an isolator for building regulations, I have one in the car." And told me what the first company were going to do broke another building regulation. He was also £110 cheaper than the British company.
Both were informed this had to be done to building regulations as it was being inspected soon.
"Of course foreigners steal your job, but maybe, if someone without contacts, money, or speaking the language steals your job, you're s
t." ~ Louis C. K.This reminded me of when we had a new garden shed assembled.
Previously, we had bought one of those steel garden sheds.
I worked away at the time so my Wife took the job on and did an excellent job of assembling it with the only help provided by her brother-in-law to drop the roof on.
10 years later it is still in excellent shape.
About 4 years ago we decided we needed a second shed. As the other has been so good, we purchased a similar shed but this time employed a local 'builder' to undertake the assemble.
My Wife kept me up to date on progress over the phone which included a daily "bl###dy holes don't line up".
When I got home, it being the same day the builder was finishing off, I was directed straight into the garden.
The builder then proceeded to inform me what a difficult job it had been, no single bolt hole had lined up, roof was a pain, sliding doors etc., etc.
His face was a picture when I pointed out that he had built it up-side-down.
All four walls had the weather protecting overlaps at the top not the bottom.
Previously, we had bought one of those steel garden sheds.
I worked away at the time so my Wife took the job on and did an excellent job of assembling it with the only help provided by her brother-in-law to drop the roof on.
10 years later it is still in excellent shape.
About 4 years ago we decided we needed a second shed. As the other has been so good, we purchased a similar shed but this time employed a local 'builder' to undertake the assemble.
My Wife kept me up to date on progress over the phone which included a daily "bl###dy holes don't line up".
When I got home, it being the same day the builder was finishing off, I was directed straight into the garden.
The builder then proceeded to inform me what a difficult job it had been, no single bolt hole had lined up, roof was a pain, sliding doors etc., etc.
His face was a picture when I pointed out that he had built it up-side-down.
All four walls had the weather protecting overlaps at the top not the bottom.
I have a few friends who have switched trades from IT to building!!! Literally overnight decided they are going to be builders and setup firms using labour from the pub!
One did a self build and then declared "Im going to be a house builder!" No training and just pure DIY, hes now done a handful for rich clients, all with some kind of incident which is always the customers fault!
Both are still in business, have the odd lawsuit to contend with and like to open and close LTD companies when things go wrong as "The client is an idiot!"
Makes me very wary of who comes over to quote for any work.
One did a self build and then declared "Im going to be a house builder!" No training and just pure DIY, hes now done a handful for rich clients, all with some kind of incident which is always the customers fault!
Both are still in business, have the odd lawsuit to contend with and like to open and close LTD companies when things go wrong as "The client is an idiot!"
Makes me very wary of who comes over to quote for any work.
Four Litre said:
I have a few friends who have switched trades from IT to building!!! Literally overnight decided they are going to be builders and setup firms using labour from the pub!
One did a self build and then declared "Im going to be a house builder!" No training and just pure DIY, hes now done a handful for rich clients, all with some kind of incident which is always the customers fault!
Both are still in business, have the odd lawsuit to contend with and like to open and close LTD companies when things go wrong as "The client is an idiot!"
Makes me very wary of who comes over to quote for any work.
Yes, I sued my House Builder and my Solicitor a few years ago.One did a self build and then declared "Im going to be a house builder!" No training and just pure DIY, hes now done a handful for rich clients, all with some kind of incident which is always the customers fault!
Both are still in business, have the odd lawsuit to contend with and like to open and close LTD companies when things go wrong as "The client is an idiot!"
Makes me very wary of who comes over to quote for any work.
It took 8 years but I won.
Four Litre said:
I have a few friends who have switched trades from IT to building!!! Literally overnight decided they are going to be builders and setup firms using labour from the pub!
I don't suppose it surprises anyone how many people start outsourced IT support providers overnight, our 'competitors' include: A Photocopier supplier "well, we're always messing around with networks (and breaking them) to make the copiers work, it was the next logical step for us.
A Marketing Company, "We we're asked to put together a marketing plan for a small IT co, but they couldn't afford it, so we opened our own, we all work on Macs, but it's all the same yeah?".
About 2 dozen 'one man bands' who very 'proactive' in so much as you can never get hold of them, but once a month they'll turn up on site unannounced, drink your coffee, chat up the receptionist, mess around with the server and leave promising the small line of end users who try to grab him while they can to fix issues "I'll do it when I get back to the office, I work faster remotely" and they don't hear from them again, well, until next month.
The One Man Bands are always the worst, they have a 'one size fits all' approach, usually using dodgy free software, pirate copies of Office 2010 and POP3 e-mail hosting because "the cloud is scary and MS don't make SBS any more".
I dread anyone working on anything of mine. Not because I'm so good but because nobody seems to give a st anymore. I let someone replace a rear tyre on my motorbike recently. They managed not to relocate the brake caliper correctly resulting in the brake hose getting caught between the spindle and swingarm locking the rear wheel.
Incompetence or just not giving a st is unfortunately rife.
Perhaps even more seriously than the above my Mrs recently got sent home from A&E with an undiaganosed pulmonary embolism because somebody either didn't wait for the blood test results or read them (grossly) incorrectly.
t anymore. I let someone replace a rear tyre on my motorbike recently. They managed not to relocate the brake caliper correctly resulting in the brake hose getting caught between the spindle and swingarm locking the rear wheel.Incompetence or just not giving a s
t is unfortunately rife.Perhaps even more seriously than the above my Mrs recently got sent home from A&E with an undiaganosed pulmonary embolism because somebody either didn't wait for the blood test results or read them (grossly) incorrectly.
Four Litre said:
I have a few friends who have switched trades from IT to building!!! Literally overnight decided they are going to be builders . . .
We had some bodge jobs done by a chap who mentioned at one point that he'd worked for a local firm who carry out insurance repairs. Later I got chatting to a client of mine who happens to be the founder and chief exec of that firm and I mentioned the chap who'd done the bodge jobs at our place. Turns out he'd been a handler on the phones whereas I'd assumed he'd been one of their tradesmen! Presumably he had the same idea as your friends when leafing through what the actual tradesmen were billing.
Gary29 said:
Bodges are more and more common I'd expect, we live in a disposable society these days, so experienced 'fixers' are a rare breed.
Whilst talking about clocks, I have an old Anniversary clock (VERY similar to the pic below) I know next to nothing about it, it was the MIL's, I can get it to run for around 10 mins, but then it comes to a stop, my hunch is that the main spring has failed, feels very resistant to winding, am Ibodging investigating in the right direction?
400 day clocks are very tricky to set up. The suspension wire (that the rotating pendulum hangs from) has to be absolutely perfect. The slightest bend or kink will make the clock stop. The fork (brass bit near the top of the wire) has to be perfectly aligned with the pin that sticks out from the top of the pallets, and at the right height. The escapement also needs to be in beat - an equal amount of rotation each way of the pendulum as the pallets disengage from the escape wheel teeth.Whilst talking about clocks, I have an old Anniversary clock (VERY similar to the pic below) I know next to nothing about it, it was the MIL's, I can get it to run for around 10 mins, but then it comes to a stop, my hunch is that the main spring has failed, feels very resistant to winding, am I
If it's hard to wind, either it's already fully wound, or the mainspring has dried out causing the turns to stick together. When springs fail, they break - no resistance when you try and wind them. Remember that many clocks that wind from the rear are wound by turning the key anti-clockwise.
These clocks don't tend to wear out, normally just need stripping and cleaning, a fresh mainspring and a suspension wire, followed by a few hours of careful tweaking.
Yup, we hired a builder who had a good reputation - feck knows how. His skimming was poor and his tiling, well, I re-did some of it far neater. He was a former IT person in London who decided to take it a bit easier.... (noting the comment above!!).. I suspect these people do a course over a week or two and then think they can build a house from a few bricks and some sticky back plastic.
Oddly the person I use now has no formal qualifications but did his own house and learnt lessons the hard way and went on all the courses for his own place. He is superb.
Oddly the person I use now has no formal qualifications but did his own house and learnt lessons the hard way and went on all the courses for his own place. He is superb.
I can understand people who change careers to makd dome easy cash being a bit rubbish, but the guys I'm talking about have been in the trade for many years, and are qualified with letters after their names. This qualification takes 3 years of distance learning, and some practical exams.
Hi Clockworks, apologies for the highjack...
I have a clock that may need a little love, used to work when it fits went up but now stops fairly quickly after winding?
It’s a hand made clock made by Mrs Honnigans grandad so of no value but lots of sentimental value.
Where abouts are you in the world and are you taking on work??
Prob just needs a clean (he hopes)
And yes I have already tried hanging it the other way up
I have a clock that may need a little love, used to work when it fits went up but now stops fairly quickly after winding?
It’s a hand made clock made by Mrs Honnigans grandad so of no value but lots of sentimental value.
Where abouts are you in the world and are you taking on work??
Prob just needs a clean (he hopes)
And yes I have already tried hanging it the other way up
clockworks said:
400 day clocks are very tricky to set up. The suspension wire (that the rotating pendulum hangs from) has to be absolutely perfect. The slightest bend or kink will make the clock stop. The fork (brass bit near the top of the wire) has to be perfectly aligned with the pin that sticks out from the top of the pallets, and at the right height. The escapement also needs to be in beat - an equal amount of rotation each way of the pendulum as the pallets disengage from the escape wheel teeth.
If it's hard to wind, either it's already fully wound, or the mainspring has dried out causing the turns to stick together. When springs fail, they break - no resistance when you try and wind them. Remember that many clocks that wind from the rear are wound by turning the key anti-clockwise.
These clocks don't tend to wear out, normally just need stripping and cleaning, a fresh mainspring and a suspension wire, followed by a few hours of careful tweaking.
Great info, THANK YOU! If it's hard to wind, either it's already fully wound, or the mainspring has dried out causing the turns to stick together. When springs fail, they break - no resistance when you try and wind them. Remember that many clocks that wind from the rear are wound by turning the key anti-clockwise.
These clocks don't tend to wear out, normally just need stripping and cleaning, a fresh mainspring and a suspension wire, followed by a few hours of careful tweaking.
I will do some further investigating (bodging) and see how much I can really mess it up before considering taking it to someone who knows what they're doing.
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