Playing Piano - Hourly Rates
Discussion
My girlfriends dad plays for fun, ocasionally for friends who own restaurants, and takes on a few other piano gigs here and there from time to time. I know he can earn £150 per night, for a few hours work. Seems a good hobby in that respect.
Is this good money (the going rate?) and what grade does one generally reach before people start asking you to play for them (and pay you
) Im not making any plans, just curious 
Is this good money (the going rate?) and what grade does one generally reach before people start asking you to play for them (and pay you
) Im not making any plans, just curious Depends on the type of gig really, whether you're solo, in ensemble, or playing background. It's probably about right for an evening of background music playing.
As for standard, well, if you are a good improviser and can busk until the cows come home then you could do background gigs, but you need to be pretty good to do that; it's not just about getting a grade or 2 under your belt.
Remember, all a Grade 8 pass means is that you played the Grade 8 pieces on the day to an acceptable standard - it's only a vague idea, and shows very little of what your general technique is like, your musicianship, or even your general standard.
Whilst it is fairly easy money for a trained musician, don't labour under the misapprehension that a few weeks' practice will get you raking in the cash! Plus, there are a lot of good musicians around clamouring for the same work.
Also, bear this in mind: when was the last time you saw a rich jobbing musician (ie the proper talented ones at the chalkface, not the usual talentless no-hopers that ger peddled by the record industry
E&OE)
>> Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Tuesday 3rd May 15:00
As for standard, well, if you are a good improviser and can busk until the cows come home then you could do background gigs, but you need to be pretty good to do that; it's not just about getting a grade or 2 under your belt.
Remember, all a Grade 8 pass means is that you played the Grade 8 pieces on the day to an acceptable standard - it's only a vague idea, and shows very little of what your general technique is like, your musicianship, or even your general standard.
Whilst it is fairly easy money for a trained musician, don't labour under the misapprehension that a few weeks' practice will get you raking in the cash! Plus, there are a lot of good musicians around clamouring for the same work.
Also, bear this in mind: when was the last time you saw a rich jobbing musician (ie the proper talented ones at the chalkface, not the usual talentless no-hopers that ger peddled by the record industry
E&OE) >> Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Tuesday 3rd May 15:00
I was at uni in Newcastle and class myself as a passable pianist, I couln't get gigs anywhere at all as there was this old woman who used to do if for free. It didn't matter whether I was better, Miss Molly was better as she was free. Really 
ed my plans of easy money up. In Plimuff, there are very few quality establishments with pianos. Even though the going rate is about £80 P/N as far as I'm concerned. That seems to be "the going rate" for a "hire some fingers". I imagine people throw buckets of money at you in London though. You have to be prepared to play some very shit pianos. I played a Bluthner concert grand in a hotel once and I signalled to the manager to come over "In the middle two octaves, there are about 10 notes which have just died" he said "Sounding great, just carry on", in the end there were more notes not working than working. I stood up and asked if anyone in the restaurant had any tools as the piano was ed!
If you're good and your mate reckons you're an asset, I can't see £150 being too much, but these people often have no musical integrity and just go for the cheap option. You'd also be surprised how little time loads of music takes to play. You need a lot to cover 2.5hrs.
Anyway, good luck if you fancy yourself as the next cheesemonger.
ed my plans of easy money up. In Plimuff, there are very few quality establishments with pianos. Even though the going rate is about £80 P/N as far as I'm concerned. That seems to be "the going rate" for a "hire some fingers". I imagine people throw buckets of money at you in London though. You have to be prepared to play some very shit pianos. I played a Bluthner concert grand in a hotel once and I signalled to the manager to come over "In the middle two octaves, there are about 10 notes which have just died" he said "Sounding great, just carry on", in the end there were more notes not working than working. I stood up and asked if anyone in the restaurant had any tools as the piano was ed! If you're good and your mate reckons you're an asset, I can't see £150 being too much, but these people often have no musical integrity and just go for the cheap option. You'd also be surprised how little time loads of music takes to play. You need a lot to cover 2.5hrs.
Anyway, good luck if you fancy yourself as the next cheesemonger.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Remember, all a Grade 8 pass means is that you played the Grade 8 pieces on the day to an acceptable standard - it's only a vague idea, and shows very little of what your general technique is like, your musicianship, or even your general standard.
This is true - I passed grade 8 with honours six years ago and I'm still sh*te. Seriously.
LM is right on the money - if I only took work that came in at Union rates I would be very very poor indeed (as opposed to only poor! 
) You might say, "make a stand, don't do the crap paid work and they will have to pay more". But there will always be somebody who will do it for silly money, be they desperate for the work, or keen amateur doing it for fun. And there's the problem - it's a nightmare trying to make a living from it as people think you just do it for fun. I get choral societies ringing me up asking if I'll come and play in their yearly concert for a 30 quid "fee" - then they act surprised and hurt when I say what I would usually expect as a fee. My usual response is to ask what they do for a living (generally lawyer or doctor or something (think choral society based in nice little Surrey village 
) - then I ask them if they would do a day's consultancy work for me for the same amount. They generally go quiet. And then go and ring the next name on the list who will probably do it
Yes, they may have trained for 5 years. So did I. I've been practising every day for 22 years and I have spent 12 years building up contacts and experience and can deal with pretty much any situation thrown at me. British musicians are the best sightreaders in the world as there is usually the least money to pay for rehearsals - we have to be! We have possibly one of the richest veins of talented musicians and the worst employment conditions...
And breathe...
) You might say, "make a stand, don't do the crap paid work and they will have to pay more". But there will always be somebody who will do it for silly money, be they desperate for the work, or keen amateur doing it for fun. And there's the problem - it's a nightmare trying to make a living from it as people think you just do it for fun. I get choral societies ringing me up asking if I'll come and play in their yearly concert for a 30 quid "fee" - then they act surprised and hurt when I say what I would usually expect as a fee. My usual response is to ask what they do for a living (generally lawyer or doctor or something (think choral society based in nice little Surrey village ) - then I ask them if they would do a day's consultancy work for me for the same amount. They generally go quiet. And then go and ring the next name on the list who will probably do it Yes, they may have trained for 5 years. So did I. I've been practising every day for 22 years and I have spent 12 years building up contacts and experience and can deal with pretty much any situation thrown at me. British musicians are the best sightreaders in the world as there is usually the least money to pay for rehearsals - we have to be! We have possibly one of the richest veins of talented musicians and the worst employment conditions...
And breathe...
Im just fascinated by the idea of a hobby actually earning you money one day. Im starting piano to enjoy learning, to relax, pursue an interest, see where the lessons and investment of time take me, the journey being key etc not the final destination which counts.
In years to come I'll likely take stock of the situation, and see how Ive progressed before looking for work. Im not after the money, but it would be nice to play for others
That is if I dont get bored of it in the first few weeks
In years to come I'll likely take stock of the situation, and see how Ive progressed before looking for work. Im not after the money, but it would be nice to play for others
That is if I dont get bored of it in the first few weeks
My piano teacher used to say that high costs reflected your training, music, upkeep of instrument and purchace of said as well as your time practicing, if you played a few nights a week, after your costs your fingers on time (throughout the week) would probably average out at about £6 p/h
If you prostitute yourself out for nothing, you are not only being disloyal to yourself, but your peers as well. I'm glad I didn't go down the professional route as I dabbled with it enough to find out that the majority of the people who pay you are gangster scum. I did a gig in Bristol with my quartet which ended up in a full scale riot. The bloke decided he wasn't going to pay us.
Also the amount of apathy out there makes me sick, in a lot of cases the audience are indifferent (Newcastle Jazz Cafe GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!) and it is pretty naff really. If you can get a good gig, go for it but if you are planning on getting yourself out there, I reckon it could be a dead horse.
My piano teacher used to carry some wedges and a hammer to give the piano a tweak before using it. If you wanted to get in via an agency (as that's what most people do) I would be prepared to play some shitheaps, it's your job to make it sound good......
Anyway, enough bollox from me.
If you prostitute yourself out for nothing, you are not only being disloyal to yourself, but your peers as well. I'm glad I didn't go down the professional route as I dabbled with it enough to find out that the majority of the people who pay you are gangster scum. I did a gig in Bristol with my quartet which ended up in a full scale riot. The bloke decided he wasn't going to pay us.
Also the amount of apathy out there makes me sick, in a lot of cases the audience are indifferent (Newcastle Jazz Cafe GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!) and it is pretty naff really. If you can get a good gig, go for it but if you are planning on getting yourself out there, I reckon it could be a dead horse.
My piano teacher used to carry some wedges and a hammer to give the piano a tweak before using it. If you wanted to get in via an agency (as that's what most people do) I would be prepared to play some shitheaps, it's your job to make it sound good......
Anyway, enough bollox from me.
UKBob said:
Im just fascinated by the idea of a hobby actually earning you money one day. Im starting piano to enjoy learning, to relax, pursue an interest, see where the lessons and investment of time take me, the journey being key etc not the final destination which counts.
In years to come I'll likely take stock of the situation, and see how Ive progressed before looking for work. Im not after the money, but it would be nice to play for others
That is if I dont get bored of it in the first few weeks
Good for you, that's the way to approach it
Do it for fun, if yuo do it with a view to making your fortune you may not last the distance! LM, just to make it clear, although I do some stuff at less than union rates (I have to pay the mortgage) anything that comes my way at seriously substandard rates I usually reject after setting the fixer straight on the going rates...
Interestingly, the standard rate for gigs doesn't seem to have gone up in 10 years...
love machine said:
In Plimuff, there are very few quality establishments with pianos. Even though the going rate is about £80 P/N as far as I'm concerned. That seems to be "the going rate" for a "hire some fingers".
My brother found teaching guitar more profitable in Plymouth than actually playing live. May change now his band have reached the dizzy heights of Plynouth Sound
bga said:
love machine said:
In Plimuff, there are very few quality establishments with pianos. Even though the going rate is about £80 P/N as far as I'm concerned. That seems to be "the going rate" for a "hire some fingers".
My brother found teaching guitar more profitable in Plymouth than actually playing live. May change now his band have reached the dizzy heights of Plynouth Sound
Oh
, and very depressing it is too. Several times recently I have depped out my teaching or postponed it for a week because of a gig, only to realise later that I would earn more from the teaching and be home earlier 
>> Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Tuesday 3rd May 15:50
As a student last year, down in Truro, I was probably gigging the sax 2 or 3 times a week, in various things... jazz quartets and duos, funk bands etc., but it was such a chore to get work.
There are so many people out there doing it for nothing. I remember a friend (also a gigging sax player) and I were approached to join in a funk/soul band last summer. Looked great, sounded ok - with a bit of work, could have been fun. Until the guy told us he had a few gigs in. All of them up country at least a hundred miles way, and none of them paid at all. They were doing it for fun (One was a Doctor, another an Opticiain as a day job), just playing music in their spare time. Leaving those of us who make our money from it in a bit of an awkward position.
£150 p/n does sound a little on the good side though (did you say he was based in London though?) £60-80 seems to be the going rate for a solo piano act generally I think. Then about £100-120 for a duo, £130-140 for a quartet... It always seemed to me that the more players in a group, the less money each guy got at the end of the night...
There are so many people out there doing it for nothing. I remember a friend (also a gigging sax player) and I were approached to join in a funk/soul band last summer. Looked great, sounded ok - with a bit of work, could have been fun. Until the guy told us he had a few gigs in. All of them up country at least a hundred miles way, and none of them paid at all. They were doing it for fun (One was a Doctor, another an Opticiain as a day job), just playing music in their spare time. Leaving those of us who make our money from it in a bit of an awkward position.
£150 p/n does sound a little on the good side though (did you say he was based in London though?) £60-80 seems to be the going rate for a solo piano act generally I think. Then about £100-120 for a duo, £130-140 for a quartet... It always seemed to me that the more players in a group, the less money each guy got at the end of the night...
No, he was offered £150 a night locally in Sussex, with another venue offering £20 per hour spend playing any afternoons, any afternoons, for as many hours as he cared to play Given that he loves it, and does plenty of free 'work' I was happy for him - that he could earn good money doing what he loves, and sometimes does for free.
Im off to my first lesson in a bit
Given that he loves it, and does plenty of free 'work' I was happy for him - that he could earn good money doing what he loves, and sometimes does for free. Im off to my first lesson in a bit
UKBob said:
No, he was offered £150 a night locally in Sussex, with another venue offering £20 per hour spend playing any afternoons, any afternoons, for as many hours as he cared to play
Im off to my first lesson in a bit
Rob
Can't imagine you in a lounge suit, hair all slicked backed and crooning.
UKBob said:
No, he was offered £150 a night locally in Sussex, with another venue offering £20 per hour spend playing any afternoons, any afternoons, for as many hours as he cared to play
Im off to my first lesson in a bit
£20 per hour to practice, what a brilliant thing!
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