V8S v 4.0 Chimaera
Discussion
In terms of fun, chuckability and so on I find the V8S extremely predictable and mild mannered. On the track, I notice that V8Ss are consistently faster than 4.0 Chimaeras and Griffiths, I don't know whether this is because they are easier to drive fast or just because they are faster in a straight line (being lighter and lower geared).
In any case, I guess styling and practicality will be the deciding factor for most people, because they're both extremely fast cars. (V8S gets my vote for looks, obviously!)
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 17th September 18:42
In any case, I guess styling and practicality will be the deciding factor for most people, because they're both extremely fast cars. (V8S gets my vote for looks, obviously!)
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 17th September 18:42
quote:
A little modest aren't we. Isn't it because you have tinkered with the engine and you're a damn fine driver?
I was talking about standard V8Ss of course! As you know, mine is a long way from standard so not a fair comparision. Standard V8Ss regularly give 4.0 Griffths/Chimaeras a trouncing, and often give well driven 450s and 500s a run for their money.
Hi Midge,
As posted on the Chim forum I tried both and the S was definately the better car in my mind. The Chim is a more practical daily use car with a bigger boot but the S was the one that gave the biggest grin. Plus they're rarer, look better, sound better, etc
Cheers,
JSG.
Just my unbiased opinion of course.
As posted on the Chim forum I tried both and the S was definately the better car in my mind. The Chim is a more practical daily use car with a bigger boot but the S was the one that gave the biggest grin. Plus they're rarer, look better, sound better, etc
Cheers,
JSG.
Just my unbiased opinion of course.
quote:
Which will give me the greater "grin factor"?
A Wedge... You really don't want all those curves cos' you can't use a nice sanding block to polish the car!
Chimaeras are generally better built and have the option of bigger engine models etc.
V8S is still a bit of a budget model in that it was the peak of the development and TVR decided that they could go no further with it. Doesn't mean it is not a good car, they both are but the Chimaera is just the next generation. As for performance... depends how good a driver you are for a start. The Chimaera is a bit more forgiving in my experience but harder to get close to the limit as when it bites, it bites hard. The V8S does have some handling funnies and isn't perfect and maybe it is this injection of fear that makes everyone grin so much.
Personally I don't like the Chimaera styling and would have a Griff any day.
The only way to decide is to drive them.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
The V8S does have some handling funnies and isn't perfect
All together now, "oh no it doesn't"!
The only V8S handling funny I'm aware of is that the V8S suspension is relatively soft (maybe this is part of the reason it's so forgiving to drive) and it tends to corner on its door handles. You would never notice unless you get it on a race track though. And if you drop the clutch they tramp far more easily than the other models (if you get this in normal driving, you're a nutter!). Any other problems Steve? In contrast, the Chimaera and Griffith both suffer from excessive rear end lift under braking, which makes the transient handling under braking 'interesting' to say the least! Especially when you have the TVR standard brake setup which has too much rear brake bias (IMO).
Anyway, it's a well known fact that TVR stopped making the V8S after only a couple of years because it was so good, they couldn't improve on it. They've kept messing the other models about for years, trying to get them right. So obviously the V8S is the ideal TVR. Anyway, the superior looks of the V8S obviously outweigh all the other factors.
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
OK I may be just a tiny bit biassed here!
Read My "Chimaera Ownership: Day 1/2" Thread for my impressions of the cars.. I won't post it all again here for the sake of those who have ploughed through it once aready
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=17483
Cheers
Matt.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=17483
Cheers
Matt.
quote:
All together now, "oh no it doesn't"!
Oh no it doesn't
quote:
The only V8S handling funny I'm aware of is that the V8S suspension is relatively soft
Yes, I'd agree with this. Mine feels softer than the S3 did. However this can be sorted easily and many Wedges are modified as the standard setup was not felt to be ideal
quote:
Anyway, it's a well known fact that TVR stopped making the V8S after only a couple of years because it was so good, they couldn't improve on it. They've kept messing the other models about for years, trying to get them right. So obviously the V8S is the ideal TVR. Anyway, the superior looks of the V8S obviously outweigh all the other factors.
So true. I was chatting to a chap at the Berks car show who raced Vixens, had experienced most models and also owned a Griff 500 and he said that he felt the V8S was the ultimate TVR. Couldn't agree more.
Cheers,
John.
OK i'm going to quote myself just so I can look like I know what I'm talking about
can I stay... ?
quote:
With undeniably more power the chimaera is fast, but lacks the raw excitement of the S. With the S you get the feeling that you're in a little rocket-powered go-Kart, in comparison the Chimaera you feel like your in a bond-car; just enough speed to beat the badies, but still enough gadgets and comfort to drive in a dinner suit. I think perhaps the ideal "sportscar" in this league is the V8S..
can I stay... ?quote:
OK i'm going to quote myself just so I can look like I know what I'm talking about
quote:
With undeniably more power the chimaera is fast, but lacks the raw excitement of the S. With the S you get the feeling that you're in a little rocket-powered go-Kart, in comparison the Chimaera you feel like your in a bond-car; just enough speed to beat the badies, but still enough gadgets and comfort to drive in a dinner suit. I think perhaps the ideal "sportscar" in this league is the V8S..
I did try to warn you. Still if it's any consolation I saw your old S last night and it looked and sounded great.
Cheers,
John.
quote:
quote:
OK i'm going to quote myself just so I can look like I know what I'm talking about
quote:
With undeniably more power the chimaera is fast, but lacks the raw excitement of the S. With the S you get the feeling that you're in a little rocket-powered go-Kart, in comparison the Chimaera you feel like your in a bond-car; just enough speed to beat the badies, but still enough gadgets and comfort to drive in a dinner suit. I think perhaps the ideal "sportscar" in this league is the V8S..
I did try to warn you. Still if it's any consolation I saw your old S last night and it looked and sounded great.
Cheers,
John.
Jolly good.. it sounded much better than the currrent V8 thats for sure... however the Chimaera suits my needs pretty well and I don't regret the change (well not too much
).. Cheers
J.Bond..
>Edited to remove: "I want my old car back"
Well my old V8S used to suffer from rear end lift and was quite skittish when coming on and off the power. The Griff 500 I tested at the time and then bought wasn't and that was one reason why I moved on. The extra power was another.
I suspect that Pete has got so used to his car that its funnies have now been exploited as virtues.
I wonder what happened to that immaculate 1993 Green V8S?
Steve
I suspect that Pete has got so used to his car that its funnies have now been exploited as virtues.
I wonder what happened to that immaculate 1993 Green V8S?
Steve
quote:
quote:
All together now, "oh no it doesn't"!
Oh no it doesn't
quote:
Oh no it doesn't
More than happy with the V8S, as has already been said at the end of the day it's what rocks your boat, and mines bobbing along happily thank you very much
As far as the 4ltrs go it does seeem to have the edge over other models
It may 'corner on the door handles' but the tyres squeeling should be enough notice for the sanest man to know when you're nearing the limit, just don't lift off at that point they can bite. As I've found out recently in the safe confines of a runway a 540 degree spin is on the cards
Harry
quote:
Well my old V8S used to suffer from rear end lift and was quite skittish when coming on and off the power. The Griff 500 I tested at the time and then bought wasn't and that was one reason why I moved on. The extra power was another.
I suspect that Pete has got so used to his car that its funnies have now been exploited as virtues.
I wonder what happened to that immaculate 1993 Green V8S?
Steve
I assume you're talking about aerodynamic lift Steve. I was talking about the way the weight distribution changes when you come off the power and start braking. With a standard Griffith or Chimaera, the front drops three or four inches and the back lifts four or five, as the weight transfers forwards. This produces a big pitch overshoot which destabilizes the car big time. The S series is unique among TVRs in having anti-lift geometry at the back which almost completely eliminates this.
As far as skittish goes, I assume we're talking about two different cars as the V8S as standard is an amazingly stable and forgiving car. As you know, I sprinted it in standard condition for several years, and it let me get away with all sorts of liberties. Not so much expoiting its funnies as virtues, more that the car would take everything I threw at it and come back for more. Other V8S sprinters agree that the V8S is a highly 'chuckable' car with lots of feedback which makes it great fun to drive fast.
For those that don't know, Steve used to own my V8S and this is the immaculate green car he's referring to! Now it's 100,000 miles older and wiser, and as a result of 'developments' over the years it's now got the performance to give that Griff 500 a bloody nose and handling to match. Not a fair comparision against a standard Griff of course since it's been heavily developed over the years with no expense spared, financially the standard Griff 500 represents far better 'bang per buck'. I fully understand why Steve traded up all those years ago.
Just don't accept that a standard 4.0 Griffith or Chimaera matches a standard V8S either in performance or handling, which is what was being compared. The V8S has some fundamental advantages. And of course it wins hands down on rarity and looks.
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
(Still completely unbiassed!)
What's all this claptrap about the V8S reaching the limit of development and was therefore substituted by Griffs and Chimps?
If you have a close look at a Tuscan racer, you will notice that they are loosely based on the 'S' series. The early Tuscan racers are even more similar especially without the headlamp covers! Okay so the chassis was a bit different and it had rear wishbones, but this is surely a development on the original 'S' taken to extreme proportions!
Peter you mentioned that standard V8S's will give Griff & Chimp 4.0's, 4.5's and 5.0's a good run for their money. You are forgetting that even an old red S2 will show most of 'em a pair of clean exhaust pipes on a half decent sprint or track day!!
Go for an 'S' series car. The Chimp has a touch of Grandpappy styling IMO. Oh and it is also saddled with a silly nickname!
Jas.
If you have a close look at a Tuscan racer, you will notice that they are loosely based on the 'S' series. The early Tuscan racers are even more similar especially without the headlamp covers! Okay so the chassis was a bit different and it had rear wishbones, but this is surely a development on the original 'S' taken to extreme proportions!
Peter you mentioned that standard V8S's will give Griff & Chimp 4.0's, 4.5's and 5.0's a good run for their money. You are forgetting that even an old red S2 will show most of 'em a pair of clean exhaust pipes on a half decent sprint or track day!!
Go for an 'S' series car. The Chimp has a touch of Grandpappy styling IMO. Oh and it is also saddled with a silly nickname!
Jas.
Are we not confusing driver ability here with performance? My 520 in its 390 days used to give some Cerberas a pasting but I couldn't stand up in court and say the 390 was a better car than a Cerbera! Yes I have seen V6S past V8 Tivs but this is more to do with driver ability than anything else. I've even seen Granturas go past Chimaeras!
As for the Tuscan comment.... well look at a Tuscan and it has more in common with a Griff than an S. The point is if the S chassis was so good why wan't it used for the Griff? The reason was it could not cope with the power (PH has had to spend a lot of money getting the suspension sorted to cope with it) and so they developed it further. Yes there is heritage in the same way that the Cerbera chassis was an evolution of the Griff and the Tuscan SP6 a development of the Cerbera and so on.
Anyway if I didn't keep you S series guys honest you will be telling me next that TVR lost the plot when they stopped making it. The reason it went out of production was the fact that no-one was buying it as they were buying the Griff and Chimaera instead.
It is a good car? Yes. Is it their best? No. Is it faultless? No. Does it compare with a 4 litre Chimpari? Depends what you are looking for.
Personally I don't like the Chimaera - it does nothing for me I'm afraid and I would probably go for a V8S but I know how to tweak a Chimaera for a lot less than money than a V8S and I couldn't see the outside when I was driving it and anyway I drive a wedge which some people think doesn't have curves in the right places.... so I think I'll keep the Griff.
I suspect that if the question was Griff vs V8S we would get a different set of answers as Griffs do seem to be more the S series follow on.
Anyway go out and enjoy your cars. That's what really counts.
Steve
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Friday 20th September 07:59
As for the Tuscan comment.... well look at a Tuscan and it has more in common with a Griff than an S. The point is if the S chassis was so good why wan't it used for the Griff? The reason was it could not cope with the power (PH has had to spend a lot of money getting the suspension sorted to cope with it) and so they developed it further. Yes there is heritage in the same way that the Cerbera chassis was an evolution of the Griff and the Tuscan SP6 a development of the Cerbera and so on.
Anyway if I didn't keep you S series guys honest you will be telling me next that TVR lost the plot when they stopped making it. The reason it went out of production was the fact that no-one was buying it as they were buying the Griff and Chimaera instead.
It is a good car? Yes. Is it their best? No. Is it faultless? No. Does it compare with a 4 litre Chimpari? Depends what you are looking for.
Personally I don't like the Chimaera - it does nothing for me I'm afraid and I would probably go for a V8S but I know how to tweak a Chimaera for a lot less than money than a V8S and I couldn't see the outside when I was driving it and anyway I drive a wedge which some people think doesn't have curves in the right places.... so I think I'll keep the Griff.
I suspect that if the question was Griff vs V8S we would get a different set of answers as Griffs do seem to be more the S series follow on.
Anyway go out and enjoy your cars. That's what really counts.
Steve
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Friday 20th September 07:59
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