Acceleration times - 4.7 V8 Vantage
Discussion
The standing start 1/4 mile figures = 12·7 secs. (112 mph)
(That test was by Road and Track magazine.)
I think the standing start 500 metres is 14·9 secs. (120 mph)
I have tried to find the standing start over 1 kilometre figures, but without any success.
Can anyone help with the standing 1 kilometre time and terminal speed ?
The Brighton Speed Trials used to be run on a 1 kilometre course, so if I can find the Vantage figures, it would make for interesting comparisons.
Thank you.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 24th July 19:37
The figures I'd seen were around 23.3 seconds @ 144mph.
Having a small involvement in drag racing, the underlying issue with the Vantage (and most Astons in fact), is getting them to into their power band without bogging down and / or blowing off the tyres. In-gear acceleration is pretty decent once they get going.
Having a small involvement in drag racing, the underlying issue with the Vantage (and most Astons in fact), is getting them to into their power band without bogging down and / or blowing off the tyres. In-gear acceleration is pretty decent once they get going.
There is this thread from a few years ago.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
0-100mph in 9.86 seconds. That would be about right for that quarter mile time.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
0-100mph in 9.86 seconds. That would be about right for that quarter mile time.
NFC 85 Vette said:
the underlying issue with the Vantage (and most Astons in fact), is getting them to into their power band without bogging down and / or blowing off the tyres. In-gear acceleration is pretty decent once they get going.
You get the engine into the power band from stationary by destroying the clutch, knowing that the clutch is sacrificed to acquire the test result! It’s only in the real World with mechanical sympathy the problems you state are encountered.For the purposes of making sure the engine calibration delivers optimum performance for acceleration times, in development I’ve performed numerous standing start accelerations. To replicate the makers times the pull away is beyond brutal.
With clutch pressed Rev the engine so it’s pretty much resting on the redline, slide foot off clutch with just enough slip to avoid wheel spin, meaning that when the clutch has clamped forward motion starts with the engine at approx. 5000 rpm which means in-turn that as soon as the car has gone from stationary to moving the engine hits the Rev limit and selection of 2nd is immediately needed.
On a virgin singleplate clutch you can count on one hand the number of pullaways before the clutch is toast, which if I recall correctly, was the reason that this type of testing was performed on a twinplate. So the concern on a 4.7L isn’t wheel spin (clutch slip which destroys the clutch controls that), or getting the engine in the correct power-band (because abuse of the clutch guarantees that pull away starts at peak torque speed), the concern is how many times you can attempt the test without totalling the clutch (an unskilled driver will probably destroy a singleplate clutch on first attempt of the brutal manoeuvre!).
For this reason and also that cars are abstractly set up within the rules to return optimal acceleration times, makers data is pretty much meaningless. Also, in my own first hand experience journos often input the acceleration times the makers tell um to (I suppose gratis drives at Lemans support races are at stake in the case of non compliance!). So a totally independent measurement like some Youtuber might do is more realistic.
For the base 4.7L Vantage the manual and SportShift 0-60 times as far as I can see are identical @ 4.9 seconds - knowing the “procedure” to perform the test in a manual, I’ve really no clue how a sportshift can post the same times...
In the end we performed all tests from ‘idle-drive’ which is 1st gear moving at slowest speed with no throttle and clutch clamped, then hoof it. That way the car spent more time on the road instead of on the hoist having clutch replacement. I’d really like to see an independent Youtuber gather a load of cars and perform comparisons of different tests from idle drive, but then again, I see even some You-tubers are bought off these days with long term testers donated to um.
8Tech said:
Are you sure the Brighton Speed Trials were ever over 1 kilometer?
I won the trials back in 1984 with fastest time of day and it was a half mile then, I know they shortened the course to slow things down a bit after the fatality, but dont think they ever did a longer course.
I won the trials back in 1984 with fastest time of day and it was a half mile then, I know they shortened the course to slow things down a bit after the fatality, but dont think they ever did a longer course.
The origins of the event were as 1 kilometre, but it later changed to half a mile.
I think the very early events were run east to west.
In 1946 it reverted to 1 kilometre and that distance continued until 1979 (no event 1969, and quarter of a mile in 1970).
Half a mile was the course length from 1980, and it has been a quarter of a mile since 1993.
Congratulations for your FTD. Which car were you driving?
Interestingly in connection with this topic I happened to notice, that a 4.3 Vantage Roadster competed in the 2014 Brighton Speed Trials. Road testers might be more brutal with the clutch than owners, because the time and finish speed were a touch slower than the 'book' figures.
( EDIT - I have just read Mike's post. My thought about the clutch seems correct. )
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 25th July 09:13
BamfordMike said:
You get the engine into the power band from stationary by destroying the clutch, knowing that the clutch is sacrificed to acquire the test result! It’s only in the real World with mechanical sympathy the problems you state are encountered.
Like I say, I only have minimal knowledge on things like acceleration tests and getting cars to hook up from standstill. Useful and insightful info as always, cheers Mike 
BamfordMike said:
<To replicate the makers times the pull away is beyond brutal.>
I remember when I discovered (late) that my 4.7SS had launch control. Used it once out of curiosity......... Brutal seems apt in it's discription 
Copied from an earlier posers info:
Transimssion in "sport" paddle shift mode
- Traction control turned off (hold DSC button for 4 secs)
- 1st gear selected
- Greater than 90% throttle applied in less than 0.5 secs
If the parameters are met the system will raise the engine rpm to 5,000 rpm and close the clutch. If these parameters are maintained the system will make an automated upshift for 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd at 7100 rpm. The remaining upshifts will be made at 7300 prm.
BamfordMike said:
For the base 4.7L Vantage the manual and SportShift 0-60 times as far as I can see are identical @ 4.9 seconds - knowing the “procedure” to perform the test in a manual, I’ve really no clue how a sportshift can post the same times...
Here is a comparison with the N400
Edited by mhurley on Wednesday 25th July 10:56
On a related issue, can I ask what the speeds through the gears are for a V8V 4.7 (6spd manual) and a recommended chnage up revs.
Did hit the rev limiter a few times on Le Mans parade laps and was concentrating a lot on next bend and the traffic slowing for it. Normally go on engine note and mainly drive in 3rd and 4th in country etc but lots of noise and new crash hat.
Did hit the rev limiter a few times on Le Mans parade laps and was concentrating a lot on next bend and the traffic slowing for it. Normally go on engine note and mainly drive in 3rd and 4th in country etc but lots of noise and new crash hat.
Jon39 said:
mhurley.
Interesting tables of information.
They might perhaps be from a book, but if a website, please tell me the web address.
Thank you.
it's from this site
http://www.torquestats.com/
You can compare two cars at once
RL17 said:
On a related issue, can I ask what the speeds through the gears are for a V8V 4.7 (6spd manual) and a recommended change up revs.
This is my understanding of the gear speed figures.
I don't know the recommended rpm to change. Presumably it must depend on whether power or torque tails off, before maximum revs are reached.
Maximum Speeds
1st = 47 mph
2nd = 75 mph
3rd = 104 mph
4th = 130 mph
5th = 160 mph
6th = 180 mph
Its interesting that people are still obsessed with 0-60 times. These days where any decent performance car has 500+ hp it is indeed all about the launch. So you are really just comparing the effectiveness of the launch control (or lack thereof), with AWD cars enjoying a huge advantage. And then you have 8+ gear DCT boxes that keep the engine in its narrow power band like the turbo 718 Porsches. Pretty soon, your grandma in an EV (which doesn't need a low ratio first gear that overpowers the wheels - or any gears at all really) will blow your manual V8's doors off at launch. I've given up on thinking of my V12V as "fast" in that way - my Tesla launches so much harder.
Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
Edited by 12pack on Wednesday 25th July 19:08
12pack said:
Its interesting that people are still obsessed with 0-60 times. These days where any decent performance car has 500+ hp it is indeed all about the launch. So you are really just comparing the effectiveness of the launch control (or lack thereof), with AWD cars enjoying a huge advantage. And then you have 8+ gear DCT boxes that keep the engine in its narrow power band like the turbo 718 Porsches. Pretty soon, your grandma in an EV (which doesn't need a low ratio first gear that overpowers the wheels - or any gears at all really) will blow your manual V8's doors off. I've given up on thinking my V12V as "fast" - my Tesla launches so much harder.
Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
Don’t stop the kids playing Top Trumps. It’s the only thing that keeps the pork and nismo owners in beer down the pub. Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
divetheworld said:
12pack said:
Its interesting that people are still obsessed with 0-60 times. These days where any decent performance car has 500+ hp it is indeed all about the launch. So you are really just comparing the effectiveness of the launch control (or lack thereof), with AWD cars enjoying a huge advantage. And then you have 8+ gear DCT boxes that keep the engine in its narrow power band like the turbo 718 Porsches. Pretty soon, your grandma in an EV (which doesn't need a low ratio first gear that overpowers the wheels - or any gears at all really) will blow your manual V8's doors off. I've given up on thinking my V12V as "fast" - my Tesla launches so much harder.
Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
Don’t stop the kids playing Top Trumps. It’s the only thing that keeps the pork and nismo owners in beer down the pub. Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
They decided to do go in some sort of convoy to the Hindhead Tunnel. Now as its on the way home (Bournemouth) i said why not.
So pulling up to some lights in Guildford i see a new Audi S3 next to me which was also at the meet. Some youngish whipper snapper was in it, looking over. Ok, so now i admit the "i can get into the cool books with the son" moment beckoned. Lights turn to green and a smartish, swift take off ensued. Of course the DSG equipped S3 thought the same.
And actually i was quite surprised. Was ahead until around 2nd gear then he was alongside and the 2nd set of lights stopped our immature shenanigans!
My son thought i was the coolest person ever and S3's passengers were ripping into the Driver!
I went back into sensible Dad mode and drove sensibly thereafter....well until Hindhead Tunnel with the 200 Cel cats making some noise.
Not bad for the old manual 4.7 lump in the front i thought!
Many moons ago, I remember having a conversation with a chap who I think had either an Impreza or R34 Skyline. It had been dyno'd at about 650bhp or so, and was quite brisk as a road car but had been set up for drag racing. We got onto the topic of racing and I explained that I had a little old Fiat Topolino hot rod type thing I had some fun with on weekends - I said "do you fancy a race sometime, if they let us?"
"What do you mean if they let us?" He said.
"Well, for safety reasons they often wont let quicker cars go up against slower cars, as the closing speed would be quite high in the event of an incident", I explained.
"But you aren't gunna stand a chance, I've got 650 brake, mate, you're in an old Fiat"...
"I could launch in high gear rather than low gear, to even things out", I said.
"Well what does it run when you launch in high gear then?"
I tried to explain that it slowed the 60ft and 330ft times, but once the clutch locked up it pulls relatively hard - but he shouldn't worry - the fuel system setup was one I'd put together myself, and being younger than him (I was 24 at the time), I couldn't possibly know much.
Unfortunately he made his excuses and we never got to race
"What do you mean if they let us?" He said.
"Well, for safety reasons they often wont let quicker cars go up against slower cars, as the closing speed would be quite high in the event of an incident", I explained.
"But you aren't gunna stand a chance, I've got 650 brake, mate, you're in an old Fiat"...
"I could launch in high gear rather than low gear, to even things out", I said.
"Well what does it run when you launch in high gear then?"
I tried to explain that it slowed the 60ft and 330ft times, but once the clutch locked up it pulls relatively hard - but he shouldn't worry - the fuel system setup was one I'd put together myself, and being younger than him (I was 24 at the time), I couldn't possibly know much.
Unfortunately he made his excuses and we never got to race
12pack said:
Its interesting that people are still obsessed with 0-60 times. These days where any decent performance car has 500+ hp it is indeed all about the launch. So you are really just comparing the effectiveness of the launch control (or lack thereof), with AWD cars enjoying a huge advantage. And then you have 8+ gear DCT boxes that keep the engine in its narrow power band like the turbo 718 Porsches. Pretty soon, your grandma in an EV (which doesn't need a low ratio first gear that overpowers the wheels - or any gears at all really) will blow your manual V8's doors off at launch. I've given up on thinking of my V12V as "fast" in that way - my Tesla launches so much harder.
Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
On the outgoing tech, the days of makers catapulting internals to post optimistic acceleration times will be a welcome change for fixed rate direct drive transmissions with electric motors which can achieve flat line torque curves down to zero rpm meaning yes, a grandma could match the pull away time any Pro driver could post if they were both driving in a straight line the same (digital, boring either on or either off) electric car. Its the rest of the drive that counts - and you can't measure that.
Edited by 12pack on Wednesday 25th July 19:08
Just like today, that future to me sounds as boring as watching a TTZero race Vs snarling Superbikes, or a Formula E Race Vs today’s screaming gasoline F1 cars??!! Electric in mainstream cars has absolutely no theatre as far as I can see.
I’d imagine in years to come whilst the grandma in her electric milk float can zip away pretty nippy, that will be the equivalent of a gel pen - cheap, disposable, super efficient and hassle free but with no discernible character. The V8 with its doors blown off in the Granny’s rear view mirror will be to the petrolhead purest what the fountain pen is to the writer - inspiring, a thing of beauty, unique, individual and 2 fingers up to the oppressive nature of so called ‘progression’ (you gotta mine for the minerals in them battery packs, you gotta generate the power, you gotta distribute it), it will be a very long time before honest well-to-wheel calculations tips in favour of electric, and the minerals for the battery packs come from just as unstable countries as oil does now.
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