Pilots, train drivers, coach\truck drivers.
Discussion
I read recently pilots work an average of 30 hours per week and senior pilots work less!!! Apparently the job is so stressful it its for safety reasons? So what do they do, sit on the cockpit drinking coffee monitoring a computer that can even land the plane by itself.
Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
Macski said:
Am I missing something?
Yes, a lot. The retained information and skill required to pilot a 400 tonne aircraft with 300 souls on-board is mind blowing and there is a reason why, despite the fact they could be, planes are not fully autonomous and still flown by humans. Add in the fact international pilots (and crews) fly across multiple time zones and often not in regular patterns - that can take its toll on the human body more than you realize hence the need for regular breaks. However like almost every industry they are pushed to do more hours than they are supposedly limited to. Macski said:
I read recently pilots work an average of 30 hours per week and senior pilots work less!!! Apparently the job is so stressful it its for safety reasons? So what do they do, sit on the cockpit drinking coffee monitoring a computer that can even land the plane by itself.
Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
Are we talking working hours or flight time. Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
I believe the maximum number of flight hours is regulated by government bodies (FAA, CASA, et al). Same with rail and road drivers.
Also modern planes don't fly themselves... Pilots actually work whilst autopilot is on (which is why there are no longer navigator or flight engineer positions).
Oh, oh, me, me I was a commercial pilot for 10 years. 4 instructing, 6 on airlines and I've been a train driver for 5 years now. No truck driving though 
I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
Macski said:
I read recently pilots work an average of 30 hours per week and senior pilots work less!!! Apparently the job is so stressful it its for safety reasons? So what do they do, sit on the cockpit drinking coffee monitoring a computer that can even land the plane by itself.
Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
I’m an airline pilot. I work about 15-18 hours a week. The horror. Train drivers work an average of 35 hour week, There job is to stop and accelerate the train and OK they have to look out for things although on a high speed train there is little they can do if something happens in front of them. How does it take 12 months to train a train driver. NOt poking fun at them, interested
Then there are road drivers in coaches and trucks who can work an average of 48 hours. Road vehicles don't drive themselves unlike modern planes nd trains, not yet anyway. You have the stress of dealing with the public and moron car drivers whose drivers cut these large vehicles up, can't park properly and tight access roads, They often have to unload and often load their vehicles, yet they can work the longest hours and unlike pilots should drink coffee while driving..
Am I missing something?
Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
Jaroon said:
Oh, oh, me, me I was a commercial pilot for 10 years. 4 instructing, 6 on airlines and I've been a train driver for 5 years now. No truck driving though
I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
And not forgetting that you also need to have a detailed understanding of the train and these are now complicated pieces of equipment.I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
Testaburger said:
I’m an airline pilot. I work about 15-18 hours a week. The horror.
Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
Just out of curiosity is that flight time or all in? I imagine you spend plenty of time travelling to and from airports (to get o the planes in the first place)!Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
ZOLLAR said:
Testaburger said:
I’m an airline pilot. I work about 15-18 hours a week. The horror.
Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
Just out of curiosity is that flight time or all in? I imagine you spend plenty of time travelling to and from airports (to get o the planes in the first place)!Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
KM666 said:
ZOLLAR said:
Testaburger said:
I’m an airline pilot. I work about 15-18 hours a week. The horror.
Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
Just out of curiosity is that flight time or all in? I imagine you spend plenty of time travelling to and from airports (to get to the planes in the first place)!Give it a go. Let us know how you get on.
Jaroon said:
Oh, oh, me, me I was a commercial pilot for 10 years. 4 instructing, 6 on airlines and I've been a train driver for 5 years now. No truck driving though
I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
I have talked to a Truck driver who became a Pilot but never heard of anyone go form Pilot to Train Driver.I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
I dont think "flying" an airliner is actually that difficult nowadays, at least when it goes to plan it is, its when it doesn't go to plan that they earn their money, all those hours in a simulator practising scenarios so they are well drilled when the port engine is used to unsuccessfully liquidize a brace of Cormorants or they have to divert into an unfamiliar, fog bound airport with a tricky approach.
To be fair to the OP, there's many jobs held in high regard that other people just don't get. How often have you heard footballers described as "getting paid millions to kick a ball around."
Personally, I've never got big deal about the Red Arrows. So what? Once you've learnt to fly the plane, not bumping into another plane that's close by can't be very hard. I drive on the motorway with loads of other cars and we don't bump into each other. I don't expect to be applauded for it.
Personally, I've never got big deal about the Red Arrows. So what? Once you've learnt to fly the plane, not bumping into another plane that's close by can't be very hard. I drive on the motorway with loads of other cars and we don't bump into each other. I don't expect to be applauded for it.
J4CKO said:
Jaroon said:
Oh, oh, me, me I was a commercial pilot for 10 years. 4 instructing, 6 on airlines and I've been a train driver for 5 years now. No truck driving though
I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
I have talked to a Truck driver who became a Pilot but never heard of anyone go form Pilot to Train Driver.I flew complex, heavy aircraft often ad hoc, anything, anywhere, anytime with stints of regular routes and passengers. I would describe it as being at the more testing end of the job and due to the age of our aircraft we had numerous failures including a fire at decision speed at max weight. Modern aircraft are less prone to failure but the pilots are trained to deal numerous possible failures and be as prepared as they can for unforeseen events.
It may be age or that I learnt to fly first but I find train driving as testing if not more so, mainly due to being single crew as it were and concentration levels are 70/80% all day where flying you might be 90% for take off and landing but in the cruise you really are at about 25%. Obviously the numbers are for example but you get the point.
Oddly flying incidents are more life and death but emotionally a failure on a train feels much the same, i.e. do your job but with nauseous discomfort.
Both jobs involve very anti social starts or finishes with frequent am to pm roster changes which takes a toll on the whole family to be fair.
I dont think "flying" an airliner is actually that difficult nowadays, at least when it goes to plan it is, its when it doesn't go to plan that they earn their money, all those hours in a simulator practising scenarios so they are well drilled when the port engine is used to unsuccessfully liquidize a brace of Cormorants or they have to divert into an unfamiliar, fog bound airport with a tricky approach.
OP - it can take up to a year to train a driver because there's so much to learn. You only get to see us sitting in the cab pulling levers and pressing buttons but there's much more to the job than just driving a train. Every inch of the routes we work on has to be learned off by heart, we're tested on it and have to sign a legal document saying we're fully competent on each route - we have to know all the line speeds, where the signals are, which signalbox controls them, what they mean (and what they don't), how far apart they are, stations, loops, sidings, level crossings, foot crossings, bridges, viaducts, tunnels, junctions, gradients, areas of low adhesion and high winds, braking points, all of this in daylight, at night, in fog etc. There may be route restrictions for certain types of loco and rolling stock which we have to know about, plus all the rules and regulations relating to out of course working, emergency situations, failures, accidents, fire, flood etc. We are tested on all of this at regular intervals too. Once we've done all the classroom stuff we have to do our train handling with a mentor driver then be assessed before passing out as a fully paid up driver. Then comes the route learning which can take several more months.
Edited by P5BNij on Monday 30th July 13:17
Edited by P5BNij on Monday 30th July 13:25
ZOLLAR said:
Just out of curiosity is that flight time or all in? I imagine you spend plenty of time travelling to and from airports (to get o the planes in the first place)!
Hi Zollar, That’s what is referred to as ‘block time’, so from push back to engine shutdown.
Sign-on at work is an hour before, arriving at the airport. As you can tell, the nature of your flying can add a significant amount of duty time on top of your block hours - short haul guys flying a few sectors a day may be ‘blocking’ 80 hours in a month, but when each flight is 2 hours, you may adding 50% to that, in duty time.
I’m on the other end of the spectrum - I average 6-8 flights a month, so the vast majority of my time at work, I’m actually moving.
I’m responsible for getting to my home base, but at outports after an overnight, a coach is arranged to collect us from the hotel.
Plenty of pilots do endure punishing international commutes. For me, life’s too short for that, so I live 30 minutes away.
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