Power Upgrade Path for Sport 160
Discussion
No, I’m not planning to do anything at the moment, just got the car and looking forward to Bruntingthorpe on the weekend, just interested but I’m struggling to put all the info from PH Search together………
So, first question, does the 160 VHPD have different pistons? I was under the impression that the crank and rods are different? What is a reasonable output / RPM for this engine with consideration to reliability?
Also, if upgrading, what order would you do things in to minimise cost / maximise gain? E.g.:
Induction Kit
Sport Cat?
Vernier Pulleys / Timing
Throttle Bodies?
Does it need a different cams?
Emerald ECU and bespoke map
What kind of power is the standard box and clutch good for? I think the car has Lotus Sport suspension (?), will this deal with a power upgrade for track work?
And finally, the brakes, are they standard on a 160? Is there a recommended pad upgrade? Will they last on a track day?
Sorry, that’s a lot of questions!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Rob
So, first question, does the 160 VHPD have different pistons? I was under the impression that the crank and rods are different? What is a reasonable output / RPM for this engine with consideration to reliability?
Also, if upgrading, what order would you do things in to minimise cost / maximise gain? E.g.:
Induction Kit
Sport Cat?
Vernier Pulleys / Timing
Throttle Bodies?
Does it need a different cams?
Emerald ECU and bespoke map
What kind of power is the standard box and clutch good for? I think the car has Lotus Sport suspension (?), will this deal with a power upgrade for track work?
And finally, the brakes, are they standard on a 160? Is there a recommended pad upgrade? Will they last on a track day?
Sorry, that’s a lot of questions!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Rob
HI Rob
I will try to answer as much of this as possible.
As far as I am aware, the S160 just has a standard K series bottom end, so standard pistons, crank, con-rods etc. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I have been led to believe.
As for upgrades it depends on cost and ability to do some of the work yourself if you want to keep costs down. Do you have a SVA 160 or the later type S160? The general consensus among the 160 crowd is that "most" cars benefit tremendously from having a new ECU, probably an Emerald with a suitable map and a set of verniers. This will let you time the cams properly as in standard form they are not well timed and the Lotus maps are not great either.
After all that you can start to add bolt on bits. A decent induction kit, a Hurricane for example will set you back about £175 and is easy to fit. gains should be around 4-5 BHP.
Sport cats, my opinion on these is that they are a waste of money. It is however down to personal choice. Do you want to swap the cat back into place every 12 months for MOT time? If not a sport cat is the way to go. I haven't heard an Elise with a sport cat in place but I guess it makes things a little quieter in comparison to a straight through cat replacement pipe. Sport cat around £300, CRP £45ish. Gains in power are about 2BHP but sound is greatly increased.
Throttle bodies I have no experience of but there is a good write up over on www.enticknapd.fsnet.co.uk/ I know Dan was pushing out 180BHP after all the mods but some time later her experienced piston failure (I think) and this was probably due to the power and high RPM his car was pushing out with just a standard bottom end.
Cams, S160 cams are probably the only decent bit of the S160 package. They are pretty much like Piper 633 grinds hence the lack of torque low down but a good deal of thump from 4.5K rpm. Verniers and an Emerald with a good map and RR session should make things a little better though.
A couple of things you aint mentioned, exhaust, does it already have a decent system in place? If not that is another bolt on piece you should install for freeing up the complete system. Cylinder head, with any luck I will have in my possession in a week or two a genuine S160 head and inlet plenum. AFAIK the head was only re-worked by a CNC machine and could benefit being removed and reworked by hand. This kind of work would involve matching up the inlet and exhaust ports to the respective manifolds and also improve the volumetric capacity of the head leading to larger gains. Finally valves are just standard K series sizes, going for larger valves would also push things in an upward direction.
As a cost measure and to avoid upsetting the ECU maps it might be worthwhile installing the bolt on bits such as air filter & sports cat/CRP before you get the Emerald & verniers done otherwise you might be back to get the car mapped every time you add another go-faster bit. One more thing, if the car does not have a 52mm Throttle body this is another worthwhile improvement when you get the ECU & verniers done.
I will try to answer as much of this as possible.
As far as I am aware, the S160 just has a standard K series bottom end, so standard pistons, crank, con-rods etc. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I have been led to believe.
As for upgrades it depends on cost and ability to do some of the work yourself if you want to keep costs down. Do you have a SVA 160 or the later type S160? The general consensus among the 160 crowd is that "most" cars benefit tremendously from having a new ECU, probably an Emerald with a suitable map and a set of verniers. This will let you time the cams properly as in standard form they are not well timed and the Lotus maps are not great either.
After all that you can start to add bolt on bits. A decent induction kit, a Hurricane for example will set you back about £175 and is easy to fit. gains should be around 4-5 BHP.
Sport cats, my opinion on these is that they are a waste of money. It is however down to personal choice. Do you want to swap the cat back into place every 12 months for MOT time? If not a sport cat is the way to go. I haven't heard an Elise with a sport cat in place but I guess it makes things a little quieter in comparison to a straight through cat replacement pipe. Sport cat around £300, CRP £45ish. Gains in power are about 2BHP but sound is greatly increased.
Throttle bodies I have no experience of but there is a good write up over on www.enticknapd.fsnet.co.uk/ I know Dan was pushing out 180BHP after all the mods but some time later her experienced piston failure (I think) and this was probably due to the power and high RPM his car was pushing out with just a standard bottom end.
Cams, S160 cams are probably the only decent bit of the S160 package. They are pretty much like Piper 633 grinds hence the lack of torque low down but a good deal of thump from 4.5K rpm. Verniers and an Emerald with a good map and RR session should make things a little better though.
A couple of things you aint mentioned, exhaust, does it already have a decent system in place? If not that is another bolt on piece you should install for freeing up the complete system. Cylinder head, with any luck I will have in my possession in a week or two a genuine S160 head and inlet plenum. AFAIK the head was only re-worked by a CNC machine and could benefit being removed and reworked by hand. This kind of work would involve matching up the inlet and exhaust ports to the respective manifolds and also improve the volumetric capacity of the head leading to larger gains. Finally valves are just standard K series sizes, going for larger valves would also push things in an upward direction.
As a cost measure and to avoid upsetting the ECU maps it might be worthwhile installing the bolt on bits such as air filter & sports cat/CRP before you get the Emerald & verniers done otherwise you might be back to get the car mapped every time you add another go-faster bit. One more thing, if the car does not have a 52mm Throttle body this is another worthwhile improvement when you get the ECU & verniers done.
Hi Paul,
That is a wealth of information. Thank you very much!
As far as I know the Sport 160 has a Janspeed exhaust and also has a decent manifold (although not certain on this) so I was not too concerned about it.
I'd be very interested to find out what internals the VHPD engine has. I assumed that the internals would have been the same as the Exige version? Does anybody know what the difference between these engines is?
As for RPM / reliability, would I be right in saying that the engine (as per lotus) will be reasonably reliable at 7.5K rpm? If this is the case then what is the max power you can expect from a tuned VHPD (Throttle bodies, induction, pullies and Emerald) at 7.5k rpm?
Cheers,
Rob
That is a wealth of information. Thank you very much!
As far as I know the Sport 160 has a Janspeed exhaust and also has a decent manifold (although not certain on this) so I was not too concerned about it.
I'd be very interested to find out what internals the VHPD engine has. I assumed that the internals would have been the same as the Exige version? Does anybody know what the difference between these engines is?
As for RPM / reliability, would I be right in saying that the engine (as per lotus) will be reasonably reliable at 7.5K rpm? If this is the case then what is the max power you can expect from a tuned VHPD (Throttle bodies, induction, pullies and Emerald) at 7.5k rpm?
Cheers,
Rob
Careful about the exhaust, SVA cars had the Janspeed exhaust, later ones had a 111S exhaust that was a little more restrictive. Both versions did come with a Janspeed 4-2-1 manifold which is good, its not perfect but for normal tune upto 200BHP its probably ok. Neither SVA or WVTA really made 160BHP, but who cares, its how the car drives and delivers power rather than "pub bollox - my car has 160BHP." A well set-up S160 with Emerald and verniers will be much more fun to drive as the torque will be more available from lower down the rev-range and will be pretty much consistant towards the upper reaches.
VHPD had forged pistons and strengthened con-rods. The crank may have been uprated too, but I'm not too hot on VHPD info. The VHPD head was also different with larger inlet and exhaust valves and ported/polished.
As for max RPM, I would say a safe bet is 7200 rpm. Dans car was maxing at 7300 and it gave up after a while. Also, you may find that with a new ECU and verniers that 7000 might be enough.
A tuned VHPD is not a happy beast to live with to be honest Rob, you need to screw it pretty hard to get the best from it. If you pop over to www.exiges.com the guys there will have a better idea about VHPD's etc.
My advice would be enjoy your S160, learn about the car, how it handles etc then add some bolt on goodies. The air filter is an easy job, a 52mm TB is a piece of cake, check the exhaust to see if its a Janspeed (if not and it turns out to be the 111S exhaust get an eliseparts exhaust) then add the Emerald/verniers and get it mapped by Dave Walker at Emerald (currently 2 month waiting time) and you should see some decent gains.
Paul
VHPD had forged pistons and strengthened con-rods. The crank may have been uprated too, but I'm not too hot on VHPD info. The VHPD head was also different with larger inlet and exhaust valves and ported/polished.
As for max RPM, I would say a safe bet is 7200 rpm. Dans car was maxing at 7300 and it gave up after a while. Also, you may find that with a new ECU and verniers that 7000 might be enough.
A tuned VHPD is not a happy beast to live with to be honest Rob, you need to screw it pretty hard to get the best from it. If you pop over to www.exiges.com the guys there will have a better idea about VHPD's etc.
My advice would be enjoy your S160, learn about the car, how it handles etc then add some bolt on goodies. The air filter is an easy job, a 52mm TB is a piece of cake, check the exhaust to see if its a Janspeed (if not and it turns out to be the 111S exhaust get an eliseparts exhaust) then add the Emerald/verniers and get it mapped by Dave Walker at Emerald (currently 2 month waiting time) and you should see some decent gains.
Paul
Hi Paul,
Once again, thanks for the mass of information. There is only 1 point that I'm not clear on. Does my Sport 160 have a VHPD engine? I was under the impression that it did?
The reason I ask is that you say it has forged pistons and strengthened rods? I've been speaking to Dave at DVAPower, he says that they are stock and I would require forged pistons to be on the safe side.
Nothing is ever simple is it! But I agree with you. I have no intention of doing this in the short term, just doing my research.
Thanks,
Rob
Once again, thanks for the mass of information. There is only 1 point that I'm not clear on. Does my Sport 160 have a VHPD engine? I was under the impression that it did?
The reason I ask is that you say it has forged pistons and strengthened rods? I've been speaking to Dave at DVAPower, he says that they are stock and I would require forged pistons to be on the safe side.
Nothing is ever simple is it! But I agree with you. I have no intention of doing this in the short term, just doing my research.
Thanks,
Rob
www.dvapower.com I think is Dave's website. Lots of info on there about the K Series and the various states of tune.
Might be interesting reading for you?
Might be interesting reading for you?
Well I was under the impression that the whole bottom end was standard K series. Maybe what Dave is saying is that the standard Crank & Con-rods are adequate but the pistons would best be uprated if you were going for serious power. someone will be along soon to answer this i'm sure.
rjben said:
Cheers Gents,
It would appear that the kind of money you need to spend to get a good and safe 180 - 190 (£4000) would be better spent put towards an engine transplant!
I think I'll go for verniers, induction and ECU IF AND WHEN the time comes.
Regards,
Rob
IIRC for about £5995 (+vat) Geary (Eliseparts) is now offering a Duratec 190bhp conversion for the Elise, tuneable to much bigger numbers for not huge sums. If I were thinking of investing 4k I'd be more inclined to save a bit more and go that route than risk it on a blown K-series.
My thoughts exactly....then again I've just spotted this!
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=41773&s=18
My God! That is a stunning car!
I know there is a hard top for the Elise but is there anything that is similar to the Exige roof available?
Cheers,
Rob
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=41773&s=18
My God! That is a stunning car!
I know there is a hard top for the Elise but is there anything that is similar to the Exige roof available?
Cheers,
Rob
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