Family estate car suggestions 9K RWD fairly powerful
Discussion
Afternoon all,
Currently drive a BMW Z4 but I will need to get a family car in the next year or so. Not in a rush so gladly open for ideas.
I have been thinking about it for a little while now and thinking that an BMW E90 touring might be a good choice ~2007.
I’m thinking 3L petrol, however not sure on the engine yet (N52 naturally aspirated or N54 twin turbo 335i).
I think both have their pros and cons, but both are quite hard to find now, especially in m-sport manual. Ideally looking for black exterior with white interior if anyone knows of any which haven't ramped the miles up too much.
I was then thinking it might be nice to get the auto version, and perhaps mod it a little e.g. get a double clutch / nice big paddles. That combined with a remap will bring the 335i to around 380bhp with fast shifting. That being said I’m FAR from a mechanic so not sure how much this would cost / if possible on that model!?
The other option is going down the proper family route and just getting a Volvo and think about something sportier down the line. I doubt I will want to go that fast with kids in the back anyhow. That being said I have never driven a Volvo, so not sure what I’m getting into.
Any thoughts a very much welcome, but please consider the following:
• Ideally rear wheel drive (love the feel)
• 0-60 ideally ~6s but can deal with slower if really good car
• Moderately efficient / reliable. Think similar to BMW E90.
• Estate is a must
• Looks good with roof rack. Subjective I know, but I think e90 looks pretty good when matched with good rack.
• Great for euro trips, so nothing too jarring.
• Ideally manual, as I love manual, however maybe open to auto as suggested.
Another thought is looking at Jags, but I’m guessing repair bills would be huge?
Best,
Theo
Currently drive a BMW Z4 but I will need to get a family car in the next year or so. Not in a rush so gladly open for ideas.
I have been thinking about it for a little while now and thinking that an BMW E90 touring might be a good choice ~2007.
I’m thinking 3L petrol, however not sure on the engine yet (N52 naturally aspirated or N54 twin turbo 335i).
I think both have their pros and cons, but both are quite hard to find now, especially in m-sport manual. Ideally looking for black exterior with white interior if anyone knows of any which haven't ramped the miles up too much.
I was then thinking it might be nice to get the auto version, and perhaps mod it a little e.g. get a double clutch / nice big paddles. That combined with a remap will bring the 335i to around 380bhp with fast shifting. That being said I’m FAR from a mechanic so not sure how much this would cost / if possible on that model!?
The other option is going down the proper family route and just getting a Volvo and think about something sportier down the line. I doubt I will want to go that fast with kids in the back anyhow. That being said I have never driven a Volvo, so not sure what I’m getting into.
Any thoughts a very much welcome, but please consider the following:
• Ideally rear wheel drive (love the feel)
• 0-60 ideally ~6s but can deal with slower if really good car
• Moderately efficient / reliable. Think similar to BMW E90.
• Estate is a must
• Looks good with roof rack. Subjective I know, but I think e90 looks pretty good when matched with good rack.
• Great for euro trips, so nothing too jarring.
• Ideally manual, as I love manual, however maybe open to auto as suggested.
Another thought is looking at Jags, but I’m guessing repair bills would be huge?
Best,
Theo
On that type of car an auto really is the answer especially when mated to the 35i engine.
Also look out for the E350/500 as they're another good option.
Leftfield & you get the manual box too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Also look out for the E350/500 as they're another good option.
Leftfield & you get the manual box too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
ZX10R NIN said:
On that type of car an auto really is the answer especially when mated to the 35i engine.
Also look out for the E350/500 as they're another good option.
Leftfield & you get the manual box too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Just out of interest why do you think auto is best? I've never had an auto for a long period of time so I cant say what pro's / cons are.Also look out for the E350/500 as they're another good option.
Leftfield & you get the manual box too.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I tried driving a maserati once which had lighting quick shifting. That was impressive I have to say.... don't you miss the engagement of manual though?
How would you say the merc would feel to drive in comparison to the bmw. 'Softer'?
I like manual on the right car but for me a powerful family wagon naturally sits in the Auto category for & the 7/8 speed autos just work better more of the time, lets be honest even an M Sport 35i won't handle as well as an M135i let alone any hot hatch so why have a manual?
Also if you want a good handling manual estate then I'd be looking at the Insignia, as for the Mercedes yes they're a little softer but not a lot I just find them a more relaxing drive than the BMW/Audi equivalents, a test drive will tell you what one suits you best if you can find an E500 then you really won't regret it.
Also if you want a good handling manual estate then I'd be looking at the Insignia, as for the Mercedes yes they're a little softer but not a lot I just find them a more relaxing drive than the BMW/Audi equivalents, a test drive will tell you what one suits you best if you can find an E500 then you really won't regret it.
Having just spend the weekend struggling stuff in and out of a E46 330ci (which was nearly a z4) love the current car but I am watching this thread closely, for a few years time if not now.
Seen a few of the newer shape mercs looking very sharp in red. Not owned a benz yet so can't comment beyond that.
Daniel
Seen a few of the newer shape mercs looking very sharp in red. Not owned a benz yet so can't comment beyond that.
Daniel
Some comments below having owned many 6 cylinder E90/E91's (estate).
The 335i is a fantastic engine, and these usually have a really nice spec in Sport model, these are quite rare in estate form so you will only have very few to chose from as they don't often come up for sale (this limits your choice of colours and rare to find them in your budget with low mileage)
380 bhp is easily and cheaply available from a 335i (get a JB4 tuning box or similar).
I have had manual and auto and the auto version works great with loads of low down torque but ultimately it really blunts the performance as its always in too high a gear, with a manual 335i there is a lot of fun to be had holding onto the revs (makes a lovely sounds as the revs build up). Very hard to find a manual E91 335i sport though, most are auto.
Fuel consumption is pretty awful on the auto (my wife was averaging 22 mpg) the manuals seemed to average 27 mpg. Road tax is expensive on the early 335 models.
330i, I was surprised just how good these are in comparison to having had the 335i's, they do need some revs to get the full power out of them and again manual seems to suit this model better if you want to enjoy the performance.
325i 3.0 model - this is also worth looking at post 2009 325i these are just a detuned 330i and a simple remap puts them straight back to the 330i power spec (270 bhp v's 215 for a 325i, no other mods required to achieve this).
335d also worth looking at, these are auto only, a stonking engine it really does feel like a big V8 they just give so much low down grunt, but being a diesel there's no fun to be had from revving it hard where' as the 330i/335i is very pleasant in that respect. I was surprised the MPG on the 335d is not that great, my one is averaging 27, I would rather enjoy a petrol version and accept slightly less miles per gallon.
You mentioned the F31, you would need a lot more budget for one of these, I recently had a 3.0d SE touring auto which I found really impressive, getting back into an E91 it feels really old compared to the newer model.
The 3.0d F31 is very impressive and has an 8 speed box and goes like a rocket compared to the E91 330d, in fact it didn't feel that far off my older 335i in terms of performance which was a surprise.
All of these E91 have the potential to throw up some large bills, water pumps are electric and go around 100k miles, budget £600, ABS units can need a rebuild (£350).
Read up on 335i twin turbo waste-gates, common problem its more of an annoyance than anything as normally does not affect performance but very expensive to fix if replacing both turbo's you face a £2500-£3,000 bill (one reason to look at 330i). There are ways to adjust these, or replace waste gates/actuators only but its not easy to get at.
Spec - avoid anything with SE seats as these lack support and the Sport seats somehow transforms how these car feel to drive.
Pan roof is a really nice option, adds quite a bit to the value.
Factory sat nav also makes a big difference to used prices.
Avoid cars with base level stereo and no i-drive (bmw business is the base stereo) as these are very poor and wont have bluetooth or subwoofers.
I've had these with a mix of 17, 18 and 19" inch wheels and preferred them on the smaller 17 inch wheels and get rid of the run flat tyres make an incredible improvement on normal tyres.
Mileage is really not problem for these cars with a proper service history, one of my 335i was on close to 200,000 miles when we sold it and it was still on its original tubo's, suspension and clutch (and it never broke down on us).
Also worth buying a cheap fault code reader as you will get a range of lights coming on, at least with your own code reader you don't have to waste money on dealer code reads and can identify issues at home.
Load's of great info and advice on E90 post:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=...
The 335i is a fantastic engine, and these usually have a really nice spec in Sport model, these are quite rare in estate form so you will only have very few to chose from as they don't often come up for sale (this limits your choice of colours and rare to find them in your budget with low mileage)
380 bhp is easily and cheaply available from a 335i (get a JB4 tuning box or similar).
I have had manual and auto and the auto version works great with loads of low down torque but ultimately it really blunts the performance as its always in too high a gear, with a manual 335i there is a lot of fun to be had holding onto the revs (makes a lovely sounds as the revs build up). Very hard to find a manual E91 335i sport though, most are auto.
Fuel consumption is pretty awful on the auto (my wife was averaging 22 mpg) the manuals seemed to average 27 mpg. Road tax is expensive on the early 335 models.
330i, I was surprised just how good these are in comparison to having had the 335i's, they do need some revs to get the full power out of them and again manual seems to suit this model better if you want to enjoy the performance.
325i 3.0 model - this is also worth looking at post 2009 325i these are just a detuned 330i and a simple remap puts them straight back to the 330i power spec (270 bhp v's 215 for a 325i, no other mods required to achieve this).
335d also worth looking at, these are auto only, a stonking engine it really does feel like a big V8 they just give so much low down grunt, but being a diesel there's no fun to be had from revving it hard where' as the 330i/335i is very pleasant in that respect. I was surprised the MPG on the 335d is not that great, my one is averaging 27, I would rather enjoy a petrol version and accept slightly less miles per gallon.
You mentioned the F31, you would need a lot more budget for one of these, I recently had a 3.0d SE touring auto which I found really impressive, getting back into an E91 it feels really old compared to the newer model.
The 3.0d F31 is very impressive and has an 8 speed box and goes like a rocket compared to the E91 330d, in fact it didn't feel that far off my older 335i in terms of performance which was a surprise.
All of these E91 have the potential to throw up some large bills, water pumps are electric and go around 100k miles, budget £600, ABS units can need a rebuild (£350).
Read up on 335i twin turbo waste-gates, common problem its more of an annoyance than anything as normally does not affect performance but very expensive to fix if replacing both turbo's you face a £2500-£3,000 bill (one reason to look at 330i). There are ways to adjust these, or replace waste gates/actuators only but its not easy to get at.
Spec - avoid anything with SE seats as these lack support and the Sport seats somehow transforms how these car feel to drive.
Pan roof is a really nice option, adds quite a bit to the value.
Factory sat nav also makes a big difference to used prices.
Avoid cars with base level stereo and no i-drive (bmw business is the base stereo) as these are very poor and wont have bluetooth or subwoofers.
I've had these with a mix of 17, 18 and 19" inch wheels and preferred them on the smaller 17 inch wheels and get rid of the run flat tyres make an incredible improvement on normal tyres.
Mileage is really not problem for these cars with a proper service history, one of my 335i was on close to 200,000 miles when we sold it and it was still on its original tubo's, suspension and clutch (and it never broke down on us).
Also worth buying a cheap fault code reader as you will get a range of lights coming on, at least with your own code reader you don't have to waste money on dealer code reads and can identify issues at home.
Load's of great info and advice on E90 post:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=...
rallycross said:
Some comments below having owned many 6 cylinder E90/E91's (estate)
This is really quite fascinating and I really appreciate your time writing this.I like to 'slow think' these kinds of things, and my intuition is telling me that these 335i twin turbos + additional gear are going to cause me some serious headaches in the future. I'm starting to push away from the idea of the e90's (petrol) with turbos.
Ideally I'm looking to get car which will last me for the next ~10 years or so, so I want to make the correct purchase.
My Z4 with it's N52 engine feels bullet proof... I just think those initial N54 engines were really groundbreaking but also quite unreliable. Also given the age of the car, I'm worried about other smaller issues too relating.
My opinion does change often, but I'm tempted to 'sell some of the family silver' to get get ~£17-19k together and invest in a F31.
I know this might sound crazy, but the F31 335D X-Drive M-Sport looks like quite an interesting option.
Some points below:
- 0-60 in 4.9 seconds
- From looking at youtube videos it has quite a liniar power delivery which does mean you can ramp the revs a bit.
- Much faster auto's
- ~35 to 40 real mpg!?
- Much nicer interior
- Can get roughly 2014 models which will hopefully last me a little longer.
- Can be remapped for colossal power
- £3-4k cheaper than petrol models, and depending on the variant quicker too.
- Being diesel, I would imagine the engine will last quite some time.
Thoughts welcome as this idea has only come to me this weekend.
theog87 said:
This is really quite fascinating and I really appreciate your time writing this.
t the F31 335D X-Drive M-Sport looks like quite an interesting option.
Thanks, happy to share what I have learned from owning them.t the F31 335D X-Drive M-Sport looks like quite an interesting option.
If you are planning to keep long term I dont think a sub £9k E91 is a good idea unless you can DIY things, you would be looking at cars that are getting on for 100k miles 7/10 years old.
I've not driven a X drive nor an F31 335d so can't comment on that, but based on how good my F31 330d was I'd expect that to be a fantastic car to drive, suspect budget will be into the high £20's to get one though.Not sure you need the X drive on a 3 series as these big power 3 series seem to cope incredibly well with traction/grip
theog87 said:
This is really quite fascinating and I really appreciate your time writing this.
I like to 'slow think' these kinds of things, and my intuition is telling me that these 335i twin turbos + additional gear are going to cause me some serious headaches in the future. I'm starting to push away from the idea of the e90's (petrol) with turbos.
Ideally I'm looking to get car which will last me for the next ~10 years or so, so I want to make the correct purchase.
My Z4 with it's N52 engine feels bullet proof... I just think those initial N54 engines were really groundbreaking but also quite unreliable. Also given the age of the car, I'm worried about other smaller issues too relating.
My opinion does change often, but I'm tempted to 'sell some of the family silver' to get get ~£17-19k together and invest in a F31.
I know this might sound crazy, but the F31 335D X-Drive M-Sport looks like quite an interesting option.
Some points below:
- 0-60 in 4.9 seconds
- From looking at youtube videos it has quite a liniar power delivery which does mean you can ramp the revs a bit.
- Much faster auto's
- ~35 to 40 real mpg!?
- Much nicer interior
- Can get roughly 2014 models which will hopefully last me a little longer.
- Can be remapped for colossal power
- £3-4k cheaper than petrol models, and depending on the variant quicker too.
- Being diesel, I would imagine the engine will last quite some time.
Thoughts welcome as this idea has only come to me this weekend.
Here's the thing to consider when talking about the diesels (there are some cracking one's on the market for F31 money) & that's your annual mileage.I like to 'slow think' these kinds of things, and my intuition is telling me that these 335i twin turbos + additional gear are going to cause me some serious headaches in the future. I'm starting to push away from the idea of the e90's (petrol) with turbos.
Ideally I'm looking to get car which will last me for the next ~10 years or so, so I want to make the correct purchase.
My Z4 with it's N52 engine feels bullet proof... I just think those initial N54 engines were really groundbreaking but also quite unreliable. Also given the age of the car, I'm worried about other smaller issues too relating.
My opinion does change often, but I'm tempted to 'sell some of the family silver' to get get ~£17-19k together and invest in a F31.
I know this might sound crazy, but the F31 335D X-Drive M-Sport looks like quite an interesting option.
Some points below:
- 0-60 in 4.9 seconds
- From looking at youtube videos it has quite a liniar power delivery which does mean you can ramp the revs a bit.
- Much faster auto's
- ~35 to 40 real mpg!?
- Much nicer interior
- Can get roughly 2014 models which will hopefully last me a little longer.
- Can be remapped for colossal power
- £3-4k cheaper than petrol models, and depending on the variant quicker too.
- Being diesel, I would imagine the engine will last quite some time.
Thoughts welcome as this idea has only come to me this weekend.
If you're talking 19k estates then I'd be looking at these petrol options:
C350 Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
C63
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
S4
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
V60 T6 R Design Lux
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
XF 3.0S (these are a rarer sight than the C350 but if you see one for sale snap it up)
3.6 Skoda Superb
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
328i
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Diesel:
CLS 350
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
C350
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
335d (keep some money aside to fit some springs as they really improve the ride)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
A4 Avant Black Edition Plus
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
XF Portfolio S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
@rallycross once again thanks for feedback. I'm far from a DIY guy when it comes to cars, so this makes me a little nervous.
@ZX10R NIN that's a very interesting selection of cars you have put together there.
I have to say some of those C-Class Mercs do look very tasty... I'm still worried they wont be as 'fun' to drive though!? I think this one might be overkill but seriously impressive non the less - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
@ZX10R NIN that's a very interesting selection of cars you have put together there.
I have to say some of those C-Class Mercs do look very tasty... I'm still worried they wont be as 'fun' to drive though!? I think this one might be overkill but seriously impressive non the less - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
theog87 said:
@rallycross once again thanks for feedback. I'm far from a DIY guy when it comes to cars, so this makes me a little nervous.
@ZX10R NIN that's a very interesting selection of cars you have put together there.
I have to say some of those C-Class Mercs do look very tasty... I'm still worried they wont be as 'fun' to drive though!? I think this one might be overkill but seriously impressive non the less -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Test drive one & you'll be finding every excuse under the sun to get one (my OH still misses her C63, as much as she loves her D3 if she wasn't doing the miles she'd snap one up tomorrow) that engine is epic (I have a CLK63 theat saw off an F80 M3) & makes you grin on start up.@ZX10R NIN that's a very interesting selection of cars you have put together there.
I have to say some of those C-Class Mercs do look very tasty... I'm still worried they wont be as 'fun' to drive though!? I think this one might be overkill but seriously impressive non the less -
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Test drive one to see I don't think you'll be disappointed.
JQ said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Awesome stuff . . . .
I absolutely love your posts, you're a credit to PH. You had me looking at Insignia estates the other night !!! Keep up the good work.Go to a reputable tuner & you'll have yourself a very quick nice car, handling wise they're on par with an Audi S4 so you won't feel short changed one thing to check (like the Audi's) is if the Haldex unit has been serviced if not budget on getting that done.
ZX10R NIN said:
Test drive one & you'll be finding every excuse under the sun to get one (my OH still misses her C63, as much as she loves her D3 if she wasn't doing the miles she'd snap one up tomorrow) that engine is epic (I have a CLK63 theat saw off an F80 M3) & makes you grin on start up.
Test drive one to see I don't think you'll be disappointed.
I'v started looking at Mercs on the road now...... it's started.... yet another thing to bore my wife about.Test drive one to see I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Just out of interest, would you say mercs are on part with bmers (ones I'm looking at e.g. C-Lass / F31) in terms of reliability?
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