The Hungaroring Alonso/Hamilton situation, was Alonso right?
Discussion
I came across a story saying that in 2007 Mclaren had an agreement in place where one driver was allowed to run one lap more than the other during qualifying every other weekend and the reason why Alonso blocked Hamilton was to stop him from running equal number of laps that weekend (i.e. getting f
ked over by the team).
How true is this?
ked over by the team).How true is this?
Sam993 said:
I came across a story saying that in 2007 Mclaren had an agreement in place where one driver was allowed to run one lap more than the other during qualifying every other weekend and the reason why Alonso blocked Hamilton was to stop him from running equal number of laps that weekend (i.e. getting fked over by the team).
How true is this?
That would been about the same time that Alonso gave an ultimatum to Ron Dennis Re the cheating that Alonso was well aware of, and ended up with Alonso passing evidence of the cheating to the FIA.ked over by the team).How true is this?
Alonso attempted to blackmail the Mclaren management, (of which they had no interest).
Alonsos evidence resulted in Mclaren being disqualified from the WCC, (although Hamilton and Alonso were not from the WDC, and mclaren even managed to get both drivers wrong on that count).
Mclaren had a 100 mill usd fine (approx 1 yrs prize money).
Fernando went on to more shannigans at Renault, see crashgate Singapore.
Fernando was very luck to get a drive at Ferrari, but did nothing of any note to be fair.
The return to Mclaren was/is simply underwhelming.
Hamilton on the other hand has managed 4 WDC including 4 yrs in the wilderness.
Fernando the driver, top stuff double world champ (and should be more).
Alonso the thinker and person well, not the same as Fernando.
Sam993 said:
I came across a story saying that in 2007 Mclaren had an agreement in place where one driver was allowed to run one lap more than the other during qualifying every other weekend and the reason why Alonso blocked Hamilton was to stop him from running equal number of laps that weekend (i.e. getting fked over by the team).
How true is this?
True ...although Fred doesn't exactly come out smelling of roses regardless:ked over by the team).How true is this?
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10959867/fe...
There was a heck of a lot more going on in the background than anyone outside of the inner sanctum of the McLaren team really knows about, but it all boils down to Hamilton being as fast as Alonso straight out of the blocks which McLaren and Alonso clearly did not expect. Alonso thought he was on for a de facto number 1 status, but as soon as McLaren saw Hamilton's speed they decided to give him equal backing. Alonso was somewhat infuriated by this and it began to show, witness his behaviour at the Canadian and US GPs.
As the Spygate drama then began to unfold in the background it was cear Alonso saw it as an opportunity to try and gain number 1 status assurances. Hungary was the final nail in the coffin with Hamilton doing what a lot of racing drivers with massive self belief do and breaking the 'gentleman's agreement', but I suspect not without encouragement from some of those within the team given what was happening in the background. When Alonso refused to budge out of his pit box despite being yelled at by both Dennis and his engineer it set in motion the demise of his (first) tenure at McLaren and the team's subsequent decision to back the new boy.
It seems harsh on Alonso looking back, but his inabity to cope with a fast team mate and his attempts to blackmail the team are not the makings of a decent human being. The funny thing is I think he can rationalise being challenged by Hamilton a lot more now given what Hamilton has become (multiple WC and 'one of the greatest'), but at the time he just saw him as a rookie upstart. I think it is also a measure of the talent in which Alonso's driving is held that McLaren (the team he effectively cost $100m) eventually welcomed him back.
As the Spygate drama then began to unfold in the background it was cear Alonso saw it as an opportunity to try and gain number 1 status assurances. Hungary was the final nail in the coffin with Hamilton doing what a lot of racing drivers with massive self belief do and breaking the 'gentleman's agreement', but I suspect not without encouragement from some of those within the team given what was happening in the background. When Alonso refused to budge out of his pit box despite being yelled at by both Dennis and his engineer it set in motion the demise of his (first) tenure at McLaren and the team's subsequent decision to back the new boy.
It seems harsh on Alonso looking back, but his inabity to cope with a fast team mate and his attempts to blackmail the team are not the makings of a decent human being. The funny thing is I think he can rationalise being challenged by Hamilton a lot more now given what Hamilton has become (multiple WC and 'one of the greatest'), but at the time he just saw him as a rookie upstart. I think it is also a measure of the talent in which Alonso's driving is held that McLaren (the team he effectively cost $100m) eventually welcomed him back.
To be fair to Dennis he played a blinding move, Alonso gambled on Ron capitulating rather than throwinth team under the proverbial bus. Sadly Ron also gambled that the FIA might have taken his submission into greater account in the process.
Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
Vaud said:
To be fair to Dennis he played a blinding move, Alonso gambled on Ron capitulating rather than throwinth team under the proverbial bus. Sadly Ron also gambled that the FIA might have taken his submission into greater account in the process.
Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
maybe Ron was optimistic of better treatment for handing the team in himself in rather than it coming from alonso, but did he really have any other option?Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
Vaud said:
To be fair to Dennis he played a blinding move, Alonso gambled on Ron capitulating rather than throwinth team under the proverbial bus. Sadly Ron also gambled that the FIA might have taken his submission into greater account in the process.
Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
Conspiracy theory but Bernie wanted to break the strength of the big teams and the desire for a break away series pre signing a new deal Personally I think they were right to be disqualified but the fine was unnecessarily high.
I always thought it was suspicious that RB won so many titles in such a short period of time and zip since.
Sam993 said:
What cracked me up most was the way Ron grabbed and pulled Alonso's personal trainer, like a freaking mafia boss, as if he had some sort of part in it. Genuine LOL and WTF combined in one (as the yoof likes to say).
I'm sure he was at least aware of the intention, if I remember correctly Alonso remained stationary until given the signal by his trainer, who would know when there was enough time for Alonso to get round to start another lap but not Hamilton. Deesee said:
That would been about the same time that Alonso gave an ultimatum to Ron Dennis Re the cheating that Alonso was well aware of, and ended up with Alonso passing evidence of the cheating to the FIA.
The 'cheaters' included Alonso. Even Mosley had to admit that McLaren management had no idea what Alonso and Pdl Rosa were up to. However, the main offenders were Coughlan and Stepney. They swopped confidential technical information of their teams to their competitors. OK, so it wasn't the first time this had happened, and probably not the last, but they betrayed a trust. Alonso cheated. He admitted it and was given absolution by Mosley in his god period. Since then he's had very little success, that's Alonso, although it applies to Mosley as well, if not more so. If he'd kept his mouth shut, one of the biggest farces in F1 history would not have happened, at least in the way it turned out.
I feel sorry for Alonso. A spur of the moment reaction when he was well stressed destroyed his career. He misjudged his man. But then it had far reaching affects on others as well, for one much worse, so there is also the feeling that not only was he the master of his own downfall, he had it coming as well.
Somewhat ironically, he's probably lost a lot more money potentially than McLaren did. It was $50mil net for reasons explained at the time but which I've forgotten.
From a purely selfish point of view, which is not necessarily unreasonable, it's provided us with some excellent entertainment. A top class driver in a rubbish car is often good to watch when he's trying.
There's another benefit for Alonso. For betraying the trust of his team, and telling teacher everything when asked, I took a dislike to the bloke. Given his efforts to master recalcitrant race cars, I've begun to warm to him a bit; something which he no doubt finds comforting.
I doubt we saw the best of Alonso. The potential to be one of the all-time greats was wasted by a moment's thoughtlessness.
Leroy902 said:
Did Mclaren do any of what they were accused off? They must've done something to warrant such a huge fine.
IIRC they admitted being in possession of the Ferrari material, but denied it was applied to the design of the car? No elements were proven to be integrated, but I guess the design might also have shown where not to invest time, and so save them going down dead ends?
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff