F15 better than F35
Discussion
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation...
Israel is reported to be delaying the purchase of more F35 and buying more Eagles instead.
They like the Eagle’s longer range and larger size which makes it a better choice for some of their missions.
Seems new and shiny is not always better than old and proven.
Israel is reported to be delaying the purchase of more F35 and buying more Eagles instead.
They like the Eagle’s longer range and larger size which makes it a better choice for some of their missions.
Seems new and shiny is not always better than old and proven.
hairyben said:
I thought the Israelis used the strike eagle so broadly similar in role?
Seems insane they can still knock out f15s but not f22s.
Israel took the non-strike Eagle and rebuilt it quite heavily for an air-to-ground role. The critical point here is the combat range of the F-15 is much greater than the F-35, and if you look at what Israeli planes will have to fly over to reach Iranian nuclear targets you wouldn't want to have tanker planes accompanying them. Seems insane they can still knock out f15s but not f22s.
The reason they can't build F-22s any more is that they stopped building F-22s - as soon as you shut a production line it becomes difficult (expensive) to reopen it. That's why you see Boeing and Airbus building 747s and 380s incredibly slowly rather than stopping production to wait for orders to build up.
I was speaking with a retired Israeli air force pilot the other day (after he force-landed his ultralight in the jungle near me and we had to 'rescue' him and take him back to civilization). He had flown Mirage, Kfir and F15 - all in anger. When asked which he liked the best he immediately said the F15. One time he had a metre of wing shot off and it still took him home.
I wonder if the F35 is as robust?
I wonder if the F35 is as robust?
roverspeed said:
Perhaps Israel realise that any wars they will be fighting in the short to medium term will be technologically asymmetrical in their favour.
So they don't need stealth and the sensor integration of the F35.
What hardware are the Israelis likely to come up against?
Russian Hardware. Nasty Russian Hardware. Especially if they have to operate over Syria.So they don't need stealth and the sensor integration of the F35.
What hardware are the Israelis likely to come up against?
The Problem is that if they want to carry armaments/fuel on the F35's external hard points the stealth element is gone. I suspect that the F15E can carry more as well.
telecat said:
roverspeed said:
Perhaps Israel realise that any wars they will be fighting in the short to medium term will be technologically asymmetrical in their favour.
So they don't need stealth and the sensor integration of the F35.
What hardware are the Israelis likely to come up against?
Russian Hardware. Nasty Russian Hardware. Especially if they have to operate over Syria.So they don't need stealth and the sensor integration of the F35.
What hardware are the Israelis likely to come up against?
The Problem is that if they want to carry armaments/fuel on the F35's external hard points the stealth element is gone. I suspect that the F15E can carry more as well.
They realise they need first strike stealth, which is why they have taken delivery of F-35, but as pointed out, once the element of stealth is passed, why risk you're very expensive stealth fleet when stealth is no longer reqd.
A mixed F-35A/F-15 fleet is a wise move.
Z06George said:
is a multirole attack aircraft.
Is it REALLY...................... the only multirole is has is burning gas in the morning and then in the afternoon.Most of the UK's initial 48 aircraft will need substantial upgrade work to reach what was once referred to as Block 4 standard.
The cost of this work has not been defined.
Separately, the USAF has made it clear that the central element of this upgrade, the new TR3 integrated core processor, will be required for future upgrades. It has not been designed and as for the software and certification.......
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/fea...
QUOTE.
Three-quarters of all the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters delivered to foreign customers until 2023 are obsolete and will require major retrofits before they can deliver their promised performance.
An analysis of F-35 contracts awarded to date shows that fully 343 – or 74% -- of the 460 export F-35s that Lockheed is to deliver until end 2024 will be in the current, obsolete Low-Rate Initial Production configuration.
These 343 aircraft are limited both in terms of operational capabilities and of the weapons they can use.
They are, and will remain, obsolete because their software is incomplete and because their sensors – designed over 20 years ago – have been overtaken by several generations electronics progress.
Lockheed and the F-35 Joint Program Office have quietly decided that all of the planned sensor and avionics upgrades needed to bring the F-35 to full capability will be deferred until 2023, when the first Full-Rate Production (FRP) aircraft (Lot 15) will begin to roll off the production lines.
All this, however, is a best-case scenario, and assumes that the F-35 will pass its Initial Operational Test & Evaluation (IOT&E). Due to be completed in 2019 or 2020, IOT&E will allow the Pentagon to take the (Milestone C) decision to launch Full-Rate Production (FRP).
If it doesn’t – and the GAO reported on June 5 that “As of January 2018, the F-35 program had 966 open deficiencies, of which 111 category 1 (critical)” – then all bets are off, and the program will have to undergo a major restructuring.
Fully-capable F-35 only after 2023
Aircraft of the first Full-Rate Production batch (Lot 15) will be the first to benefit from the new package of sensors, electronics and software bringing them to full capability, and which will notably include:
-- a new TR-3 (Technology Refresh 3) computer supplied by Harris Corporation that is key to allowing integration of the new capabilities planned for the Block 4 standard. This will include computing infrastructure for new panoramic cockpit displays, advanced memory systems and navigation technology, according to Brad Truesdell, Harris Corp.’s senior director of aviation systems.
-- Raytheon’s new Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, which Lockheed announced June 13 would replace Northrop Grumman’s current AN/AAQ-37.
-- a new Advanced Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) to replace the current system, also made by Lockheed. The company says the current EOTS meets all the contractual specifications, but that the new system – which offers a significant increase in terms of target recognition and detection capability – “would be a further upgrade option purchased at the discretion of the DOD and international F-35 partners and customers,” Lockheed told FlightGlobal at the time.
-- a new Panoramic Cockpit Display System (PCDS) made by Elbit Systems of America. In June 2017, Elbit announced a contract from Lockheed Martin to develop a panoramic cockpit display unit to replace the current one, made by L3 Aviation Products.
These new sensors are crucial for the F-35 to achieve the capabilities it was designed to deliver, but which are still not available today, after 17 years of development.
Lockheed says, for example, that the new DAS will have five times the reliability and twice the performance of the current system, despite being 45% cheaper to buy and 50% cheaper to operate.
However, Lot 15 deliveries will only begin in early 2023 and, meanwhile, deliveries will continue with the current electronics and sensors.
The US services will also receive obsolete aircraft, but their problem is less severe because they all operate other kinds of combat aircraft, and because they already have indicated they may use the early aircraft for flight-training or as spare parts banks if the cost of upgrading them to Block 4 standard is too expensive.
This is not an option for export customers, however, as for several – notably Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands -- the F-35 will be the only combat aircraft, while for all others it is the primary strike aircraft.
Allies to receive obsolete aircraft until 2022
Until 2023, all the Low-Rate Initial Production (LRIP) aircraft ordered by the program’s foreign partners (Australia, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and the United Kingdom) and Foreign Military Sales customers (Israel, Japan and South Korea) will be delivered in the current configuration. "
And there's more!
Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Thursday 9th August 19:09
Tony1963 said:
RoverP6B said:
The F-35 has no answer to the Russians' infrared sensing tech anyway.
But it won't be fighting the Russians. 
https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_russias_evo...
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Z06George said:
is a multirole attack aircraft.
Is it REALLY...................... StuffEdited by Kccv23highliftcam on Thursday 9th August 19:09
Z06George said:
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Z06George said:
is a multirole attack aircraft.
Is it REALLY...................... StuffEdited by Kccv23highliftcam on Thursday 9th August 19:09
This after the service introduction of Typhoon as the ultra performance fighter for the RAF.
Things were looking up.
Yeah right.
What has happened is the RAF loses it's two man strike/ interdiction aircraft, which is replaced by a "swing" version of typhoon [even the french changed their minds and reversed the ratio of single/twin seat rafale for the strike attack roles] there are plenty of times when two heads a far better than one.
then the carrier decision flip flops from C to B along with the idea that F35B will operate from "austere" dirt forward positions; oh really, where's the refrigerated fuel bowsers for a start...
However, what we are buying at present doesn't even match the specs in the glossy brochures...
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff