Nürburgring insurance
Discussion
It's not open to the "general public" in any ordinary sense of the term and you don't pay the "toll" to get anywhere. You pay to drive as fast as possible on a CLOSED road in the company of other vehicles similarly driving as competitively (against the clock) thus the risks are totally incomparable. Certainly the person who replied has no clue what the Nordschliefe is and thinks (based on your deliberately misleading description of it) it is a regular public road that happens to occasionally be closed for some event or other. What they told you is meaningless - if you had to claim what you have on an email even without the way you placed the question is worthless, it needs to be a specific endorsement on your policy. Good luck hope you won't need claiming - apparently even recovery is expensive, and damage to trackside furniture is charged in full too.
996TT02 said:
It's not open to the "general public" in any ordinary sense of the term and you don't pay the "toll" to get anywhere. You pay to drive as fast as possible on a CLOSED road in the company of other vehicles similarly driving as competitively (against the clock) thus the risks are totally incomparable. Certainly the person who replied has no clue what the Nordschliefe is and thinks (based on your deliberately misleading description of it) it is a regular public road that happens to occasionally be closed for some event or other. What they told you is meaningless - if you had to claim what you have on an email even without the way you placed the question is worthless, it needs to be a specific endorsement on your policy. Good luck hope you won't need claiming - apparently even recovery is expensive, and damage to trackside furniture is charged in full too.
I disagree with this.It's a public toll road and it is open to the general public, just via a toll
In the same way that the M6 Toll is open to the general public.
It is not timed (infact timing is prohibited, whether people do it is another matter)
xjay1337 said:
It's a public toll road and it is open to the general public, just via a toll
In the same way that the M6 Toll is open to the general public.
I guess you could always explain this precise analogy to the same insurers who habitually cancel policies because someone painted their wheels!In the same way that the M6 Toll is open to the general public.
I would never ever take my car on the Ring without a specifically worded inclusion in a specialist insurance policy..To do otherwise is just temping fate, and if the worst should happen and you're are deemed to be at fault then the Ring's and other guys insurance will take you to the cleaners..
IME its better to be a pragmatic realist rather than a blind optimist..This is the mantra i live by, both in business and life in general..
Its sounds boring but its much better to be safe rather than sorry..
IME its better to be a pragmatic realist rather than a blind optimist..This is the mantra i live by, both in business and life in general..
Its sounds boring but its much better to be safe rather than sorry..
Legal definition of a road
A road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
Question you have to ask yourself is if you come to arguing with the insurance company about "failure to pay" and retaining a solicitor do you think you've got a genuine chance of winning. What is 100% guaranteed is that they won't pay without a fight....and the question you have to ask is based on your disclosure above do you have a chance ? Also have you checked that they don't have disclaimers on that chat room ? They probably do.
A road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
Question you have to ask yourself is if you come to arguing with the insurance company about "failure to pay" and retaining a solicitor do you think you've got a genuine chance of winning. What is 100% guaranteed is that they won't pay without a fight....and the question you have to ask is based on your disclosure above do you have a chance ? Also have you checked that they don't have disclaimers on that chat room ? They probably do.
996TT02 said:
xjay1337 said:
It's a public toll road and it is open to the general public, just via a toll
In the same way that the M6 Toll is open to the general public.
I guess you could always explain this precise analogy to the same insurers who habitually cancel policies because someone painted their wheels!In the same way that the M6 Toll is open to the general public.
Most insurers clearly exclude the Nordschleife.
BUT - the question and answered would lead one to think they were covered.
Check policy documents and assume you aren't covered unless you have explicitly proven you are.
Thanks for all the replies. Will carefully read my policy as well.
The question was asked over email, there are no disclaimers in the email to say the information shouldn't be relied upon.
I don't want to go on the ring without insurance but equally finding cover has been hard and I am not available on any of the UK rules days.
The question was asked over email, there are no disclaimers in the email to say the information shouldn't be relied upon.
I don't want to go on the ring without insurance but equally finding cover has been hard and I am not available on any of the UK rules days.
Taffy66 said:
I would never ever take my car on the Ring without a specifically worded inclusion in a specialist insurance policy..To do otherwise is just temping fate, and if the worst should happen and you're are deemed to be at fault then the Ring's and other guys insurance will take you to the cleaners..
IME its better to be a pragmatic realist rather than a blind optimist..This is the mantra i live by, both in business and life in general..
Its sounds boring but its much better to be safe rather than sorry..
The mantra I live by is to go there, enjoy yourself but don't drive beyond your abilities.IME its better to be a pragmatic realist rather than a blind optimist..This is the mantra i live by, both in business and life in general..
Its sounds boring but its much better to be safe rather than sorry..
I would definitely recommend a track day or two elsewhere first so you get to know the limits of your car, and to memorise the Ring on your Playstation/Xbox/Youtube.
eshroom said:
Thanks for all the replies. Will carefully read my policy as well.
The question was asked over email, there are no disclaimers in the email to say the information shouldn't be relied upon.
I don't want to go on the ring without insurance but equally finding cover has been hard and I am not available on any of the UK rules days.
I sympathise but if it is as easy as you seem to think it is then what are we all doing wrong ...? I paid £5k to cover my 997 4.0RS and GT4 for two days at the Ring, and that was a closed track day without the general muppets from the tourist days. On the second day a “racing driver” put his AMG GTR into the barrier and took out 32 metres of Armco apparently, so you’re talking more than 40k for that before you even start on the car. And you may get charged for track stoppage time too. The question was asked over email, there are no disclaimers in the email to say the information shouldn't be relied upon.
I don't want to go on the ring without insurance but equally finding cover has been hard and I am not available on any of the UK rules days.
nudgerwilliams said:
My UK policy has a specific exclusion for the Nurburgring in the general Ts and Cs. So my advice would be read yours and check it's not excluded before relying on the chat to demonstrate you are covered.
Hopefully you won't need it anyway.
^^^^^^+1, My Admiral policy has a whole clause excluding it specifically. I doubt that screen grab would get you very far if you have an accident and replacing Armco is ludicrously expensive per foot especially if it’s two or three high. Hopefully you won't need it anyway.
I am sure you must be able to get specific track cover for the ring.
It’s your risk but I know what I would do.
I think the problem with your email is that you’ve told them it’s a toll road which whilst it may be defined as that in Germany your insurance policy is with a Uk Insurance company and the policy is governed by English Law. As I put above Google tells us that the definition of a road under UK law is
A road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
I don’t think a road that is a closed loop meets that definition.
Also they could argue that your comparison of the Nürburgring to the Monaco Grand Prix circuit is deliberately misleading. The Monaco Grand Prix takes place on roads that for nine months of the year are used in a totally different configuration with two way traffic and have shops, restaurants, hotels etc all along its route, You would really struggle to justify that comparison. Take 1000 members of the public and give them a photo of the Nürburgring, Spa, Silverstone and the Monaco circuit and ask them the odd one out.
A road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
I don’t think a road that is a closed loop meets that definition.
Also they could argue that your comparison of the Nürburgring to the Monaco Grand Prix circuit is deliberately misleading. The Monaco Grand Prix takes place on roads that for nine months of the year are used in a totally different configuration with two way traffic and have shops, restaurants, hotels etc all along its route, You would really struggle to justify that comparison. Take 1000 members of the public and give them a photo of the Nürburgring, Spa, Silverstone and the Monaco circuit and ask them the odd one out.
You clearly have insurance cover to indemnify you whilst driving at mundane speeds, down roads you likely know well and on which most drivers are behaving reasonably. Why would you risk having no insurance on an unfamiliar road where you and other amateurs will be hurtling around at speeds you are not used to?
If you kill or seriously injure someone and are deemed to be at fault it would likely bankrupt you :/
If you wanted to try your luck you would have been much better off sending them the details of the road and asking am I covered. Rather then trying to mislead.
If you kill or seriously injure someone and are deemed to be at fault it would likely bankrupt you :/
If you wanted to try your luck you would have been much better off sending them the details of the road and asking am I covered. Rather then trying to mislead.
996TT02 said:
It's not open to the "general public" in any ordinary sense of the term and you don't pay the "toll" to get anywhere. You pay to drive as fast as possible on a CLOSED road in the company of other vehicles similarly driving as competitively (against the clock) thus the risks are totally incomparable. Certainly the person who replied has no clue what the Nordschliefe is and thinks (based on your deliberately misleading description of it) it is a regular public road that happens to occasionally be closed for some event or other. What they told you is meaningless - if you had to claim what you have on an email even without the way you placed the question is worthless, it needs to be a specific endorsement on your policy. Good luck hope you won't need claiming - apparently even recovery is expensive, and damage to trackside furniture is charged in full too.
You are talking about rcn and trackdays. He wants to do touristfahrten or whatever it's called. In tourist it's exactly has he told, buses, trucks, vans, anything that can go to an highway can enter. You have to obey to german some traffic laws, like no overtaking on the right, etc. Cheib said:
A road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
I don’t think a road that is a closed loop meets that definition.
AndrewD said:
I sympathise but if it is as easy as you seem to think it is then what are we all doing wrong ...? I paid £5k to cover my 997 4.0RS and GT4 for two days at the Ring, and that was a closed track day without the general muppets from the tourist days. On the second day a “racing driver” put his AMG GTR into the barrier and took out 32 metres of Armco apparently, so you’re talking more than 40k for that before you even start on the car. And you may get charged for track stoppage time too.
How many days was the track closed? That is some real bs lie. It's almost impossible to rack up 40k in damages much less with only 32 meters. Armco are about 45 to remove and replace, posts are a bit less, let's make it 3x armco and say 400 euros per meter (it won't be 400 at all, but for the sake of trying to make your lie seem more realistic) that's 12k euros. Say track closed for 4 hours at 2k an hour, that's 8k, we are at 20k, add 5k for removing and all that jazz. Still 15k short of your bs number. And these numbers are very high to the actual prices. The massive crash that happen in october or november is the type of accident where you could see these type of numbers, but never in a 1 car accident, unless your car desintegrated for miles.
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