Introduction of E10 fuel

[Maulden7]

I noticed this on another forum & thought I would copy and post here;

Message from the FBHVC:

The Department of Transport has issued a consultation document on the subject of introducing higher levels of ethanol in petrol.

Many older vehicles are likely to suffer damage and possibly dangerous fuel leaks if the E10 grade of petrol is used without modification to their fuel systems.

This consultation is focusing on vehicles more than 25 years old.

Whilst wishing to introduce the higher ethanol level E10 grade of fuel, the Government are proposing to guarantee a 'protection grade' of petrol at the E5 grade that is equivalent to the currently available 95 RON petrol. However this guarantee will only last until 2020 when further consultation will take place.

It is possible that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available.

The Federation has designed a survey on petrol usage in older vehicles which will provide valuable evidence in the consultation response.

Please complete the survey and help the Federation preserve our right to use 'Yesterday's Vehicles on Tomorrow's Roads'.

The survey can be accessed by clicking this link: https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS

If you wish to read the consultation document and/or take part in the consultation it can be found by following this link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consul... ... -labelling

The FBHVC survey will close on 31 August 2018 in order to collate the results for the Federation's response to the consultation, which itself closes on 16 Sept 2018. A copy of the response will be made available on the Federation's website.

[sideways man]

The link for the government consultation doesn’t work for me.

[Riley Blue]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/e10-pe...

[Weslake-Monza]

If 95 octane, which I think is E5 becomes 95 octane and E10 what has this got to do with 97 octane? Does 97 octane also become E10?

[Riley Blue]

From the original post, "It is possible that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available."

[jamei303]

Riley Blue said:

From the original post, "It is possible that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available."

This isn't correct. 97 RON+ will still be available as now, the question is whether it will be E5 or E10.

[vpr]

Do the authorities not care that ethanol is creating fire risks in old cars?

Rotting hoses and disintegration of filters etc

[lowdrag]

I don't think so. Being cynical, it is another way of getting us off the road. But what additives will be available is my question. The XKSS needs 97 and the E-type 95. Advice please.

[cjb44]

lowdrag said:

I don't think so. Being cynical, it is another way of getting us off the road. But what additives will be available is my question. The XKSS needs 97 and the E-type 95. Advice please.

I use Tetraboost in all my AC's, it helps with or without hardened valve seats.

[Keep it stiff]

I have just looked through the consultation paper.

There seems to be nervousness that if E5 is sold alongside E10 that users won't want to make the change. Is this because E10 will be more expensive? I suspect this is the case.

The suggestion that E5 will be retained at bigger fuel stations, those selling over 3,000,000 ltrs per year seems flawed to me. I have no idea how many outlets fall into this category however I would guess it will include all motorway services, I suspect it is unlikely that many of us are fueling our classics in motorway services! I think that it would be much better the other way round, allow small outlets to retain.

The paper says that E10 has been introduced elsewhere in the EU, does anyone have any feedback as to how their classics have coped with the change? Also, I would be interested to know if there are any test reports.

In any event, you can see what is coming, E5 will be gone and my guess will be within 5 years.

[100SRV]

I tried E10 in France a few years ago in my Bowler which has a 3.9 Rover V8 on 14cux Efi

It really didn't like it, loss of torque and occasional backfire.

[aeropilot]

vpr said:

Do the authorities not care that ethanol is creating fire risks in old cars?

Nope, they don't give a fk.

As Tony says, they want all old cars off the road, and the sooner the better in their view.

[vpr]

Then it’s all a bit contradictory. If they want us off the road why give us no MOT and no RFL??

There will be additives I’m sure but these are costly and the true price of a gallon of jungle juice becomes even more ridiculous

[jamei303]

Keep it stiff said:

I have just looked through the consultation paper.

There seems to be nervousness that if E5 is sold alongside E10 that users won't want to make the change. Is this because E10 will be more expensive? I suspect this is the case.

It's because there will be a mandatory label on the E10 pump handle warning that the fuel may not be suitable for all petrol engines.

Keep it stiff said:

The suggestion that E5 will be retained at bigger fuel stations, those selling over 3,000,000 ltrs per year seems flawed to me. I have no idea how many outlets fall into this category however I would guess it will include all motorway services, I suspect it is unlikely that many of us are fueling our classics in motorway services! I think that it would be much better the other way round, allow small outlets to retain.

It's a case of having enough underground storage tanks for E5 95, E10 95 and 97+. Larger stations with capacity would be required to offer the choice whereas smaller ones with insufficient tanks wouldn't be expected to build new facilities.

[lowdrag]

The RFL and MOT are different issues provoked by the EU. But I am surprised that you might even tangentially credit the government/DVLA/civil Service with common sense or being able to do joined-up writing. I reckon I spend about £4,000 p.a. on petrol fo the Jaguars and if that increases I'll swallow it. I really have no choice since they are not just static art but moving poetry to me. I've said it before; I divorced the wife but kept the car and no one will come between me and the open road.

[Keep it stiff]

vpr said:

Then it’s all a bit contradictory. If they want us off the road why give us no MOT and no RFL??

There will be additives I’m sure but these are costly and the true price of a gallon of jungle juice becomes even more ridiculous

Is it chemically possible to add something to neutralise extra Ethanol? When we lost lead it was the other way round and we adopted additive to put it back.

[aeropilot]

Keep it stiff said:

vpr said:

Then it’s all a bit contradictory. If they want us off the road why give us no MOT and no RFL??

There will be additives I’m sure but these are costly and the true price of a gallon of jungle juice becomes even more ridiculous

Is it chemically possible to add something to neutralise extra Ethanol?

There is stuff available, as its used a lot in the USA where E10 is now the norm and they are moving towards E20......but, it's not expensive over there - whereas here, it is, but it maybe because there's currently not much demand for it, which may change of course in the coming years.

I have no idea how effective it is in use though.

[TooMany2cvs]

Weslake-Monza said:

If 95 octane, which I think is E5 becomes 95 octane and E10 what has this got to do with 97 octane? Does 97 octane also become E10?

In France, E10 95 has been widespread for a few years. E5 95 and E5 97-9 are still available.

E10 has been the default in the US since the 70s.
E5 has been the spec here since the introduction of unleaded.

There's so much scaremongering about it... Yes, there's st fuel hose around. It's mostly no more than just st fuel hose, perhaps with fake markings...

But that doesn't mean there aren't real problems - I bought a new Stihl strimmer a few years back. It got through a pump diaphragm (genuine) every year until I just bought a ten quid carb and chucked that on.

[Allan L]

We older folk remember Cleveland Discol being available in the late 1950s/early '60s and it (with 10% ethyl alcohol content or thereabouts) suited our cars, whether ancient or modern, so well that we went out of our way to use it.
The cars seemed to run better and the fuel consumption seemed to be better than with alternative fuels.

The urban mythology that credits E5/E10 with the ability to attack metal fuel system components is a recent addition and there was no such thinking in the Discol days.

[pancakedan]

I use Millers VSPe Power Plus which should (if it's doing what it says on the tin) combat the adverse effects of fuel up to E10. VSPe has also been rubber stamped by the FBHVC after undergoing a 12 month evaluation.