Discussion
I did their open pit track day on friday and thoroughly enjoyed it, well setup, good marshalls and a good mix of cars.
The last time I tracked my car was on the Nurburgring which due to its length made it hard to enjoy, but CC was very different and £170 for a full day is value.
I've got a question though, I found on the straights there was plenty of power but the twisties I was rolling too much. I've got GGP installed, albeit 2nd hand off ebay. Is there a way to know the spring rates of the springs i.e. is it stamped somewhere.
What springs are people using for their track days and any other advice on reducing roll e.g. arb links?
The last time I tracked my car was on the Nurburgring which due to its length made it hard to enjoy, but CC was very different and £170 for a full day is value.
I've got a question though, I found on the straights there was plenty of power but the twisties I was rolling too much. I've got GGP installed, albeit 2nd hand off ebay. Is there a way to know the spring rates of the springs i.e. is it stamped somewhere.
What springs are people using for their track days and any other advice on reducing roll e.g. arb links?
Yes, it's a great circuit but I've only been there for the Club Lotus track days in the Lotus.
I had the Chimaera out at the TVRCC day at Cadwell Park in April. Standard coilovers, T1R's new superflex bushes, Mondeo/Accord drop link mods, 4 wheel laser alignment. Handling felt poor but a misfire prevented enough rounds to analyse why.
Anglesey in July with the same setup proved difficulty turning in therefore having to brake early and generally feeling too soft/twitchy/unstable.
DIY geometry setup sorted all sorts of problems from the 'professional' alignment, springs now 375 rear, 450 front on Gaz Monos, and Yoko AD08R tyres.
Car was great at Rockingham and still has loads more to give when we catch up with it!
The spring rates were suggested by abshocks on here as a good road/track compromise, and so they have proved to be.
Dougal.
I had the Chimaera out at the TVRCC day at Cadwell Park in April. Standard coilovers, T1R's new superflex bushes, Mondeo/Accord drop link mods, 4 wheel laser alignment. Handling felt poor but a misfire prevented enough rounds to analyse why.
Anglesey in July with the same setup proved difficulty turning in therefore having to brake early and generally feeling too soft/twitchy/unstable.
DIY geometry setup sorted all sorts of problems from the 'professional' alignment, springs now 375 rear, 450 front on Gaz Monos, and Yoko AD08R tyres.
Car was great at Rockingham and still has loads more to give when we catch up with it!
The spring rates were suggested by abshocks on here as a good road/track compromise, and so they have proved to be.
Dougal.
My setup that works very well is:
450/400 springs
Gaz Monos set slightly stiffer on the front
Polybushed all round
ARBs front and rear, (slightly thicker than standard)
Decent drop links
R888s or Federal RSR tyres for track.
Usual 4 wheel alignment
You need to ditch the T1Rs. They are a budget tyre that is average on the road and awful on the track once they start overheating, which won't take long!
450/400 springs
Gaz Monos set slightly stiffer on the front
Polybushed all round
ARBs front and rear, (slightly thicker than standard)
Decent drop links
R888s or Federal RSR tyres for track.
Usual 4 wheel alignment
You need to ditch the T1Rs. They are a budget tyre that is average on the road and awful on the track once they start overheating, which won't take long!
Do we think there's a difference with the spring rates using different dampers? Ie I'm on ggp and phazed is on gaz mono's therefore 450/400 will work differently
Another point is does anyone swap their springs for track days, adjustables are a damn sight easier to replace springs than conventions? If so what pure track springs would you go with?
Another point is does anyone swap their springs for track days, adjustables are a damn sight easier to replace springs than conventions? If so what pure track springs would you go with?
Edited by Chimp871 on Thursday 30th August 07:44
Something in the order of around 600/700
It’s maybe a good idea to email Matt Smith as he races a Chim.
If your going for a full on race type set up you’ll need to add camber to protect the outside edge of your tyres and give you some proper grip levels but again Matt will confirm this.
If you go that extreme you’ll need your dampers hardening to cope which is usually just a case of sending them back to GAZ so they can adjust the adjuster knob positions.
This will make the car close to impossible to drive on the road safely so Phazed suggestions are a good compromise.
A race set up will improve your lap times hugely
As an example the average lap time around Rockingham last week with the Tvr was around 1:43 on the shorter track.
A Mazda MX5 supercup car with a controlled 139 bhp at the wheels around the longer circuit is also around 1:44 which shows the pace race cars and drivers can achieve with half the power. Big balls I think it’s called
They usually run about 500/650 and are basically rock hard and stops body roll which is half the battle but your fillings will drop out on road bumps, I’d have thought you’d need separate shocks if you want to get to this kind of set up.
The Mazda is slightly lighter than our cars but not by much.
It’s maybe a good idea to email Matt Smith as he races a Chim.
If your going for a full on race type set up you’ll need to add camber to protect the outside edge of your tyres and give you some proper grip levels but again Matt will confirm this.
If you go that extreme you’ll need your dampers hardening to cope which is usually just a case of sending them back to GAZ so they can adjust the adjuster knob positions.
This will make the car close to impossible to drive on the road safely so Phazed suggestions are a good compromise.
A race set up will improve your lap times hugely
As an example the average lap time around Rockingham last week with the Tvr was around 1:43 on the shorter track.
A Mazda MX5 supercup car with a controlled 139 bhp at the wheels around the longer circuit is also around 1:44 which shows the pace race cars and drivers can achieve with half the power. Big balls I think it’s called
They usually run about 500/650 and are basically rock hard and stops body roll which is half the battle but your fillings will drop out on road bumps, I’d have thought you’d need separate shocks if you want to get to this kind of set up.
The Mazda is slightly lighter than our cars but not by much.
Edited by Classic Chim on Thursday 30th August 08:15
My 450/400 is a compromise.
It is quite adequate for the track and acceptable for the road. On track at speed it feels surprisingly soft, (but controlled) whereas on the road it will never have a luxury ride but certainly isn't bad.
I used to change my whole suspension units for track days but even owning a 2 post lift it became a chore so I now stick to the Monos which are very good, ( but can't be the best given their restraints).
I believe both Nitron and Gaz do provide 500/400 springs on their units now if you specify use for the occasional TD.
It is quite adequate for the track and acceptable for the road. On track at speed it feels surprisingly soft, (but controlled) whereas on the road it will never have a luxury ride but certainly isn't bad.
I used to change my whole suspension units for track days but even owning a 2 post lift it became a chore so I now stick to the Monos which are very good, ( but can't be the best given their restraints).
I believe both Nitron and Gaz do provide 500/400 springs on their units now if you specify use for the occasional TD.
|When you look at a G force Meter you can imagine how much the weight gets thrown about just by looking at this picture above. Wet set up helps push the weight onto the tyres but dry your trying to restrict this movement for balance.
It’s also why blending your braking as you come off the throttle with your left ft is the difference between fast and proper fast. Many don’t bother on race cars as the shocks are so hard it makes less of a difference but it’s still the best way to control the cars dynamics imho. Carting is a great way to practice this stuff and working out how it makes such a difference.
You can be flat out and just applying the brakes whilst still on the throttle shows how you can get a better balance. I have a mate who’s really fast at sprints yet he never blends the brakes so it’s subjective for any particular driver but for me it’s essential to use brakes and throttle at the same time dependant on circumstances.
I do love this subject
It’s also why blending your braking as you come off the throttle with your left ft is the difference between fast and proper fast. Many don’t bother on race cars as the shocks are so hard it makes less of a difference but it’s still the best way to control the cars dynamics imho. Carting is a great way to practice this stuff and working out how it makes such a difference.
You can be flat out and just applying the brakes whilst still on the throttle shows how you can get a better balance. I have a mate who’s really fast at sprints yet he never blends the brakes so it’s subjective for any particular driver but for me it’s essential to use brakes and throttle at the same time dependant on circumstances.
I do love this subject
I had 500 front and 425 rear on GGPs - they seem to need stronger springs than most.
I think my Racing Red springs are around 350 lb.
But as important is Phazed's advice on tyres, T1Rs are NOT track tyres, despite what Toyo say.
You need something with a stiffer sidewall and more grip.
But the Federals, whilst a compromise tyre, are remarkably good on both road and track. But make sure you get the 595 RSR - they have several tyres called 595.
And 1 to 2 degrees of negative camber (wheels tilted tops in) makes a good bit of difference too, without wrecking your tyres on the road.
I think my Racing Red springs are around 350 lb.
But as important is Phazed's advice on tyres, T1Rs are NOT track tyres, despite what Toyo say.
You need something with a stiffer sidewall and more grip.
But the Federals, whilst a compromise tyre, are remarkably good on both road and track. But make sure you get the 595 RSR - they have several tyres called 595.
And 1 to 2 degrees of negative camber (wheels tilted tops in) makes a good bit of difference too, without wrecking your tyres on the road.
Spoke to Gaz today, helpful people especially Mark the director. They explained the mono's are gas filled, obviously pressurised by gas, whereas GPP's are dual chamber oil and gas but pressurised with oil, seeing as you can't compress a liquid you'd think it'll harder but I'm sure there's some engineering wizardry taking place.
Anyhow he confirmed GGP's out of the box for a chimaera from Gaz is 400/325.
I went got 500/400 as he said you need to keep somewhat softer at the back and at £25+vat/delivery per spring it's hardly the biggest cost I've had to pay for the car.
Anyhow he confirmed GGP's out of the box for a chimaera from Gaz is 400/325.
I went got 500/400 as he said you need to keep somewhat softer at the back and at £25+vat/delivery per spring it's hardly the biggest cost I've had to pay for the car.
The director raced Mazda MX5 championship for years I seem to remember so he knows his stuff and Gaz still supply the Supercup cars shocks but I think they are are the mono’s or specific to the Mazda. The issue is heat and I found even racking the adjusters upto full hard on GGP they soon felt soft once everything’s upto temp. The harder springs will help a lot. Have you asked whether or not your damping needs factory adjusting to cope with the rebound much firmer springs will create.
Nobody suggested modifying mine when I went for stronger springs. I only changed the dampers completely when I was able to buy a full set of barely used Racing Reds off another Chimaera owner. They run best on softer springs (not that I can remember what they are!). I have never understood why Spring makers don’t mark their product with the ratings.
It stands to reason if you buy shocks with 350/275 springs as standard the damper will correspond to the springs,,, if you then use much stiffer springs there’s a chance the damping at fully hard might not be sufficient especially when hot is all I’m saying.
Someone selling springs although they are very cheap doesn’t want to put you off by mentioning dampers might need adjusting.
On some or at least Protech I was told it’s not difficult and just requires the knobs to be re set so they can go even stiffer but I don’t know the tech. Just check or find a race track with those grate type curbs and see if the wheels stay in contact or bounce uncontrollably
Someone selling springs although they are very cheap doesn’t want to put you off by mentioning dampers might need adjusting.
On some or at least Protech I was told it’s not difficult and just requires the knobs to be re set so they can go even stiffer but I don’t know the tech. Just check or find a race track with those grate type curbs and see if the wheels stay in contact or bounce uncontrollably
I think I get what you're saying as heating oil will reduce its viscosity therefore less friction.
I'll give him a call on Monday. Their refurb prices are very reasonable anyway.
I'm trying to get to CC next Friday as I've been bitten by the track bug .........springs ordered, track tyres ordered, decent track driving skills not ordered. Though the marshalls are instructors and will ride with you for free and give presumably good advice.
I'll give him a call on Monday. Their refurb prices are very reasonable anyway.
I'm trying to get to CC next Friday as I've been bitten by the track bug .........springs ordered, track tyres ordered, decent track driving skills not ordered
. Though the marshalls are instructors and will ride with you for free and give presumably good advice.CC ? It’s adictive that’s for sure. I never had much instruction but read books by Jackie Stewart and many other great drivers sharing their secrets, Jackie’s ball on a dish on the bonnet idea is a classic and shows the need for smooth transition. I’m an immature drummer and separation of your limbs is part of your learning and it’s the same on track. It’s better to be slower and in full control and actually learn this smoothness and especially left ft braking which is all about seperation then speed it up, that’s exactly how you learn on drums too. Driving and drum playing are very similar to my mind except your unlikely to get hurt drumming
Take your time and not get rushed is simply the best way to come away having actually learnt something. Smooth is fast and safe.
Enjoy enjoy enjoy.
Here’s a childish but good way to think about it, imagine you have to look after the tyres for 50 laps as in endurance racing, gives you a better mind set and you’ll become very smooth and ultimately better and in turn faster.
Haha I’ve just got the CC, that requires a lot of what I’m talking about.
and separation of your limbs is part of your learning and it’s the same on track. It’s better to be slower and in full control and actually learn this smoothness and especially left ft braking which is all about seperation then speed it up, that’s exactly how you learn on drums too. Driving and drum playing are very similar to my mind except your unlikely to get hurt drumming Take your time and not get rushed is simply the best way to come away having actually learnt something. Smooth is fast and safe.
Enjoy enjoy enjoy.
Here’s a childish but good way to think about it, imagine you have to look after the tyres for 50 laps as in endurance racing, gives you a better mind set and you’ll become very smooth and ultimately better and in turn faster.
Haha I’ve just got the CC, that requires a lot of what I’m talking about.
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