Pirelli P Zero
Discussion
My 435d came with 20" wheels shod with Pirelli P Zero run-flats.
I basically haven't been happy with them, fine in the dry but damp/wet they are dire - pressures are fine BTW.
And a bit of googling leads to a comment about "not recommended for below 7c", I live in Scotland and it's my daily-driver (100 mile round trip commute).
Anyone else care to comment on the Zero's?
To put it into perspective, I put set of 18" winter wheels and tyres, Pirelli Sottozero run-flats, on last year (kept until May due to snow over Easter...) and they were a revelation, superb.
I basically haven't been happy with them, fine in the dry but damp/wet they are dire - pressures are fine BTW.
And a bit of googling leads to a comment about "not recommended for below 7c", I live in Scotland and it's my daily-driver (100 mile round trip commute).
Anyone else care to comment on the Zero's?
To put it into perspective, I put set of 18" winter wheels and tyres, Pirelli Sottozero run-flats, on last year (kept until May due to snow over Easter...) and they were a revelation, superb.
I have just come out of a Porsche Panamera GTS which I had P Zeros on. Obviously not run flat but they noticeably lost any suppleness last winter. They still “worked” and the four wheel drive on the Pan still enabled me to drive through the snow but they definitely dropped off below 7. I wouldn’t have put more on for winter use/year round use that’s for sure
The PZero traditionally had a reputation for being better suited to very heavy performance cars, although the 4 series is hardly 'light'. Also they're in a class where the adhesion is deliberately better 8mm -> 4mm and disproportionately degrades 4mm -> 1.6mm So once you hit 4mm it's time to change. The theory is if you can afford this tyre and associated vehicle, then swapping at 4mm isn't a cost issue and you'd appreciate the better adhesion initially.
There are also now 7 or 8 different generations of PZero out there, and it can be hard to be sure what version you have fitted: apparently, the latest version is a big improvement on the older ones - Nevertheless it still has a very variable reputation.
For winters, I had the Pirelli Sottozero Serie-II on my 330d xDrive Touring and it was a terrific winter tyre, and behaved very well in warmer weather too. It's a good choice for a performance vehicle as you don't give up too much warmer-weather handling. But I now have the Sottozero S3 on my M235i as 330BHP RWD in the snow can be a handful, so I'm happy to get the extra winter snow capability of the S3 even if the warmer-weather handling isn't quite as good as the S-II.
A couple of the major tyre manufacturers have issued a disclaimer in the USA to say they reject all liability for the results of using their summer tyres at temperatures of -7°C or below. Which is unusual in the UK, but less so if you take your car to the Alps for skiing and leave it outside. And that damage can be permanent, so just a few nights below -7°C can cause damage. Note this isn't the usual 'below 7°C for winter tyres' guideline (where the tyre compounds on a winter start to give better adhesion below +7°C) - we're talking about minus seven centigrade.
There are also now 7 or 8 different generations of PZero out there, and it can be hard to be sure what version you have fitted: apparently, the latest version is a big improvement on the older ones - Nevertheless it still has a very variable reputation.
For winters, I had the Pirelli Sottozero Serie-II on my 330d xDrive Touring and it was a terrific winter tyre, and behaved very well in warmer weather too. It's a good choice for a performance vehicle as you don't give up too much warmer-weather handling. But I now have the Sottozero S3 on my M235i as 330BHP RWD in the snow can be a handful, so I'm happy to get the extra winter snow capability of the S3 even if the warmer-weather handling isn't quite as good as the S-II.
A couple of the major tyre manufacturers have issued a disclaimer in the USA to say they reject all liability for the results of using their summer tyres at temperatures of -7°C or below. Which is unusual in the UK, but less so if you take your car to the Alps for skiing and leave it outside. And that damage can be permanent, so just a few nights below -7°C can cause damage. Note this isn't the usual 'below 7°C for winter tyres' guideline (where the tyre compounds on a winter start to give better adhesion below +7°C) - we're talking about minus seven centigrade.
Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 28th August 23:58
I had a set of P Zeros that were supplied fitted to a new car in 2014. It was to be a low use weekender car.
After three years and 5000 miles they were dangerously cracked according to the main dealer and needed replacing.
I complained to Pirelli who said it was due to use in cold conditions.
After three years and 5000 miles they were dangerously cracked according to the main dealer and needed replacing.
I complained to Pirelli who said it was due to use in cold conditions.
There are two temperature points in relation to summer tyres: +7ºC and -7ºC
Below +7ºC summer tyres have reduced adhesion compared to winter tyres because of both compounds and sipe density. As you drop below this temperature, the compound of a summer hardens whilst that of the winter remains supple. In addition, the high sipe density (the little grooves in the tread blocks) means the winter tyre warms up more.
The average winter temperate last year was 5.5ºC and in many areas during the morning and evening commute, lower. So winter tyres are something to consider even in a usually snow-free UK. Moreover (and this is 70% of the reason why I have them) they have a much higher proportion of drainage grooves than summers, so in a typically wet UK winter, they are less prone to aquaplaning as well as giving better adhesion below 7ºC.
Below -7ºC summer tyres can suffer significant damage that renders them dangerous, although it varies by brand and model. This is why a number of manufacturers have publicly disclaimed the use of their summer tyres below these temperatures in the USA. Typically, the rubber cracks and flakes and/or the compound hardens and stays hard, to the point that its adhesion is greatly reduced and sidewalls may fail. Which is not good.
Below +7ºC summer tyres have reduced adhesion compared to winter tyres because of both compounds and sipe density. As you drop below this temperature, the compound of a summer hardens whilst that of the winter remains supple. In addition, the high sipe density (the little grooves in the tread blocks) means the winter tyre warms up more.
The average winter temperate last year was 5.5ºC and in many areas during the morning and evening commute, lower. So winter tyres are something to consider even in a usually snow-free UK. Moreover (and this is 70% of the reason why I have them) they have a much higher proportion of drainage grooves than summers, so in a typically wet UK winter, they are less prone to aquaplaning as well as giving better adhesion below 7ºC.
Below -7ºC summer tyres can suffer significant damage that renders them dangerous, although it varies by brand and model. This is why a number of manufacturers have publicly disclaimed the use of their summer tyres below these temperatures in the USA. Typically, the rubber cracks and flakes and/or the compound hardens and stays hard, to the point that its adhesion is greatly reduced and sidewalls may fail. Which is not good.
Edited by msej449 on Thursday 30th August 16:56
The Eagle Asymmetric's are good tyres, I would use those instead.
Never been a fan of Pirelli's, the Michelin PSS are the ones to go for over a good set of Pirelli's. In terms of BMW RFT's, the same Pirellis on our X5 are an extra £100 per tyre, which is extortion considering how expensive X5 tyres are, and Bridgestone Duelers offer the same performance and similar tyre ratings for much less. Fronts on the Bridgestones are more than 2 years old, approaching 30,000 miles and they are good for more.
Never been a fan of Pirelli's, the Michelin PSS are the ones to go for over a good set of Pirelli's. In terms of BMW RFT's, the same Pirellis on our X5 are an extra £100 per tyre, which is extortion considering how expensive X5 tyres are, and Bridgestone Duelers offer the same performance and similar tyre ratings for much less. Fronts on the Bridgestones are more than 2 years old, approaching 30,000 miles and they are good for more.
Taken the Zero's off, now down to the wear-markers on the front and lethal in the wet plus tramlining like a bu99er.
And rather than make a decision on replacement I've just put my winter wheels (Pirelli Sottozero on 18").
It's a bit early but since I live in Scotland and early-doors last week it was 3c-4c.
And rather than make a decision on replacement I've just put my winter wheels (Pirelli Sottozero on 18").
It's a bit early but since I live in Scotland and early-doors last week it was 3c-4c.
msej449 said:
There are two temperature points in relation to summer tyres: +7ºC and -7ºC
Below +7ºC summer tyres have reduced adhesion compared to winter tyres because of both compounds and sipe density. As you drop below this temperature, the compound of a summer hardens whilst that of the winter remains supple. In addition, the high sipe density (the little grooves in the tread blocks) means the winter tyre warms up more.
The average winter temperate last year was 5.5ºC and in many areas during the morning and evening commute, lower. So winter tyres are something to consider even in a usually snow-free UK. Moreover (and this is 70% of the reason why I have them) they have a much higher proportion of drainage grooves than summers, so in a typically wet UK winter, they are less prone to aquaplaning as well as giving better adhesion below 7ºC.
^This...Below +7ºC summer tyres have reduced adhesion compared to winter tyres because of both compounds and sipe density. As you drop below this temperature, the compound of a summer hardens whilst that of the winter remains supple. In addition, the high sipe density (the little grooves in the tread blocks) means the winter tyre warms up more.
The average winter temperate last year was 5.5ºC and in many areas during the morning and evening commute, lower. So winter tyres are something to consider even in a usually snow-free UK. Moreover (and this is 70% of the reason why I have them) they have a much higher proportion of drainage grooves than summers, so in a typically wet UK winter, they are less prone to aquaplaning as well as giving better adhesion below 7ºC.
I ran P Zero's (non-RFT) on my E82 135i, and as a summer tyre they were excellent....really were.
But, once the temps dropped into single figures they were atrocious......like they had turned into being made of concrete!!
I ran Conti Winter's on it (in same size as summers) from mid/late November through to end of March (once well into April) and in many ways, I actually preferred the way the car drove on the Winters, than on the summers...!!
I actually preferred the way the car drove on the Winters, than on the summers...!!
Can't disagree tbh.
The extra sidewall height makes the car comfier plus more controlled at speed on the less than smooth roads around here - and living In a reasonable empty part of the country, and fast roads this extra 'security' is useful when taking advantage of the ability to overtake pretty much anywhere.
Can't disagree tbh.
The extra sidewall height makes the car comfier plus more controlled at speed on the less than smooth roads around here - and living In a reasonable empty part of the country, and fast roads this extra 'security' is useful when taking advantage of the ability to overtake pretty much anywhere.
bruce435 said:
I actually preferred the way the car drove on the Winters, than on the summers...!!
Can't disagree tbh.
The extra sidewall height makes the car comfier plus more controlled at speed on the less than smooth roads around here
Not in my case, I used winter tyres in the same size as the summers.Can't disagree tbh.
The extra sidewall height makes the car comfier plus more controlled at speed on the less than smooth roads around here
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff