What is this obsession with full Porsche service history?
Discussion
Am currently selling my top spec 987.2S, which is in pretty much perfect condition. I bought it from a highly respected Porsche specialist indie in Crawley 2.5 years ago. It has been serviced and maintained by them since 2014 (when it was 4 years old). I have had several enquiries, all of which ask first, 'does it have full Porsche service history'?
Is this really, really important and if so, why? I presume that most independents hire engineers/mechanics who are ex Porsche or who are at the top of their game. The indie I use run a Porsche race team and have looked after my car very well. All independents, as all Porsche service centres, I am sure, have good and bad people and there will be those who have differing experiences with either indies or main dealers.
I just don't understand what difference it makes, unless you are buying from someone who tells you 'my mate does the servicing and he knows loads about cars'.
Please enlighten me.
JM
Is this really, really important and if so, why? I presume that most independents hire engineers/mechanics who are ex Porsche or who are at the top of their game. The indie I use run a Porsche race team and have looked after my car very well. All independents, as all Porsche service centres, I am sure, have good and bad people and there will be those who have differing experiences with either indies or main dealers.
I just don't understand what difference it makes, unless you are buying from someone who tells you 'my mate does the servicing and he knows loads about cars'.
Please enlighten me.
JM
That's life, same with buying a Rolex etc etc
you have saved a ton of money using a 3rd party so you should be able to sell the car £5k cheaper and be the same off.
For the 1st 10 years there is value in a OPC full service history.
How ever good the 3rd party is, people seem to think if you simped on a dealer service what else do you skimp on.
would you buy a Ferrari with out Ferrari stamps in the book ? I would not as I know nothing about 3rd party Ferrari dealers.
It's now part and parcel of super car owner ship. It also means it's quite easy to add a Warranty for a buyer which again it seems people want.
To add a warranty now will cost you a OPC major service plus 111 check.
better to SOR it with 911 virgin if it's a stop spec car.
you have saved a ton of money using a 3rd party so you should be able to sell the car £5k cheaper and be the same off.
For the 1st 10 years there is value in a OPC full service history.
How ever good the 3rd party is, people seem to think if you simped on a dealer service what else do you skimp on.
would you buy a Ferrari with out Ferrari stamps in the book ? I would not as I know nothing about 3rd party Ferrari dealers.
It's now part and parcel of super car owner ship. It also means it's quite easy to add a Warranty for a buyer which again it seems people want.
To add a warranty now will cost you a OPC major service plus 111 check.
better to SOR it with 911 virgin if it's a stop spec car.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 29th August 09:12
Porsche911R said:
That's life, same with buying a Rolex etc etc
you have saved a ton of money using a 3rd party so you should be able to sell the car £5k cheaper and be the same off.
For the 1st 10 years there is value in a OPC full service history.
How ever good the 3rd party is, people seem to think if you simped on a dealer service what else do you skimp on.
would you buy a Ferrari with out Ferrari stamps in the book ? I would not as I know nothing about 3rd party Ferrari dealers.
It's now part and parcel of super car owner ship.
I get what you state but it's not really skimping as the costs are not dramatically different from main dealers on pure servicing. Maybe on other things but that's just common sense. They also give a 10% discount for all Porsche Club GB members. you have saved a ton of money using a 3rd party so you should be able to sell the car £5k cheaper and be the same off.
For the 1st 10 years there is value in a OPC full service history.
How ever good the 3rd party is, people seem to think if you simped on a dealer service what else do you skimp on.
would you buy a Ferrari with out Ferrari stamps in the book ? I would not as I know nothing about 3rd party Ferrari dealers.
It's now part and parcel of super car owner ship.
It's one of the clichés that is always trotted out in Porsche buyer's guides. I suspect that many first time buyers (who are already a little anxious about the possibility of huge bills) are simply trying to "follow best practice.
Anyway, just my theory, I do my own work on my old Boxster and it really isn't as complicated a car as the buyers guides would lead you to believe.
Anyway, just my theory, I do my own work on my old Boxster and it really isn't as complicated a car as the buyers guides would lead you to believe.
OPC will also give PCGB members 10% off too. Nothing wrong with having stamps in the book from Parr in Crawley though so that shouldn’t be an issue for a buyer, it’s not a GT car.
As above, does buyer want/need a Porsche a warranty on an 8 year old boxster, that cost of that may be what you find is the negotiating issue.
As above, does buyer want/need a Porsche a warranty on an 8 year old boxster, that cost of that may be what you find is the negotiating issue.
Edited by PS2018 on Wednesday 29th August 09:19
Johnniem said:
I get what you state but it's not really skimping as the costs are not dramatically different from main dealers on pure servicing. Maybe on other things but that's just common sense. They also give a 10% discount for all Porsche Club GB members.
I thought is was daft until I thought about buying a Ferrari then it made sense. I would not touch one with a barge pole without full main dealer service history.OPC gives 10% for Porsche Club GB members also and cheaper fixed priced servicing on the 987 models.
PS2018 said:
Nothing wrong with having stamps in the book from Parr in Crawley though so that shouldn’t be an issue for a buyer, it’s not a GT car.
How many non Porsche people know Parr, that's the point, I could not name one single Ferrari 3rd party dealer.GT car buyers , esp older ones are more clued up so like indie stamps.
So while I have no issue with buying a 997 GT car with indie stamps, you seem hung up on buying a GT car with indie stamps !
It's deemed skimping and less safe buying a car without full dealer service history, it is was it is.
The main benefit of a full OPC Service History is tied in to the Porsche warranty.
No reason you can't have it serviced elsewhere but Porsche would still have to inspect the car (at a cost) to warranty the car.
Some people want a Porsche warranty on their car others don't, it all comes down to how risk averse you are.
When buying a car you look at the condition and a history of it being well cared for (serviced) from reputable garages.
Your 987.2 Cayman S has a more reliable engine so I'd be less concerned about the need for a warranty on it, but would still look for a full service history.
I prefer to use a good reputable Indie, as I know the people and trust them with my 911.
No reason you can't have it serviced elsewhere but Porsche would still have to inspect the car (at a cost) to warranty the car.
Some people want a Porsche warranty on their car others don't, it all comes down to how risk averse you are.
When buying a car you look at the condition and a history of it being well cared for (serviced) from reputable garages.
Your 987.2 Cayman S has a more reliable engine so I'd be less concerned about the need for a warranty on it, but would still look for a full service history.
I prefer to use a good reputable Indie, as I know the people and trust them with my 911.
Edited by g7jhp on Wednesday 29th August 10:10
I have no doubt that a good indie (and a poor one won't last long) is every bit as good as a an OPC - and probably better than some. Unfortunately some owners have no mechanical knowledge and believe there is something special about servicing a Porsche. They are wrong - but they will insist on a full OPC history. The result is that while the OPC is of no real value, even buyers who realise that will factor the absense of OPC into the price they will pay - since it probably affect the price they get on resale.
It's actually fortunate that some owners ignore that and go to Indies - the result is that Porsche servicing prices have come down from "close to theft" to "merely exhorbitant".
It's actually fortunate that some owners ignore that and go to Indies - the result is that Porsche servicing prices have come down from "close to theft" to "merely exhorbitant".
@ 911r - Agree with you but my point was more along the lines of, would I run an 8 year old boxster with no warranty? Yes. The cost/ease of a getting a warranty on an 8 year old GT car with a non continuous OPC history (the majority of 8 year old GT cars probably?) is you say the cost of a major + a 111 (and any items arising from that) so are you still better off with the money saved over the years in the meantime using indies? ....probably yes....so I can see that argument
bcr5784 said:
I have no doubt that a good indie (and a poor one won't last long) is every bit as good as a an OPC - and probably better than some. Unfortunately some owners have no mechanical knowledge and believe there is something special about servicing a Porsche. They are wrong - but they will insist on a full OPC history. The result is that while the OPC is of no real value, even buyers who realise that will factor the absense of OPC into the price they will pay - since it probably affect the price they get on resale.
It's actually fortunate that some owners ignore that and go to Indies - the result is that Porsche servicing prices have come down from "close to theft" to "merely exhorbitant".
The age of a car plays a big part in people choosing to more outside the OPC network and get their car serviced by Indies.It's actually fortunate that some owners ignore that and go to Indies - the result is that Porsche servicing prices have come down from "close to theft" to "merely exhorbitant".
If you buy a good cared for sought after older Porsche and have full service history (including Indie) you're unlikely to get any less when selling because it wasn't OPC. Condition, history and demand for the model is key.
When I got mine from an Indy, it had FSH at OPCs and needed a minor service. Indy hadn't serviced it as they wanted the buyer to choose whether they'd prefer it to be serviced at an OPC.
First thing I did is ask them to service it instead. For one, I personally trust a business who survives on reputation, not one that takes it for granted. Second, some of us (the minority I guess) feel good supporting smaller businesses, and aiding in keeping thr competition going which can only benefit everyone.
I disagree with the sentiment that it is skimping - I'm paying nearly as much as I would at an OPC per service, and in fact pay extra to get an oil change between services with any car.
Bottom line is, most people probably care about these things, but some people care more about buying a car that's been well looked after. Someone out there will be delighted to get your car.
First thing I did is ask them to service it instead. For one, I personally trust a business who survives on reputation, not one that takes it for granted. Second, some of us (the minority I guess) feel good supporting smaller businesses, and aiding in keeping thr competition going which can only benefit everyone.
I disagree with the sentiment that it is skimping - I'm paying nearly as much as I would at an OPC per service, and in fact pay extra to get an oil change between services with any car.
Bottom line is, most people probably care about these things, but some people care more about buying a car that's been well looked after. Someone out there will be delighted to get your car.
icekay said:
When I got mine from an Indy, it had FSH at OPCs and needed a minor service. Indy hadn't serviced it as they wanted the buyer to choose whether they'd prefer it to be serviced at an OPC.
First thing I did is ask them to service it instead. For one, I personally trust a business who survives on reputation, not one that takes it for granted. Second, some of us (the minority I guess) feel good supporting smaller businesses, and aiding in keeping thr competition going which can only benefit everyone.
I disagree with the sentiment that it is skimping - I'm paying nearly as much as I would at an OPC per service, and in fact pay extra to get an oil change between services with any car.
Bottom line is, most people probably care about these things, but some people care more about buying a car that's been well looked after. Someone out there will be delighted to get your car.
First thing I did is ask them to service it instead. For one, I personally trust a business who survives on reputation, not one that takes it for granted. Second, some of us (the minority I guess) feel good supporting smaller businesses, and aiding in keeping thr competition going which can only benefit everyone.
I disagree with the sentiment that it is skimping - I'm paying nearly as much as I would at an OPC per service, and in fact pay extra to get an oil change between services with any car.
Bottom line is, most people probably care about these things, but some people care more about buying a car that's been well looked after. Someone out there will be delighted to get your car.
Thanks Icekay. I sincerely hope so as someone is going to get a real corker! It will be sad to see it go as it has probably been the most capable car I have ever owned. Sadly I had a stroke and just can't play like I used to. Having the torque at the middle/top end of the rev range puts the devil in me and my reactions are not as they were.
I use OPC for services but things like running in oil changes I get done at RPM as they're a) closer b) have an excellent reputation and c) do that kind of work on Sat mornings. That said my OPC will collect and deliver despite me being a good hour away from them....oh and I quite like trying out the Porsche loan cars when my car does get serviced.
icekay said:
When I got mine from an Indy, it had FSH at OPCs and needed a minor service. Indy hadn't serviced it as they wanted the buyer to choose whether they'd prefer it to be serviced at an OPC.
First thing I did is ask them to service it instead.
That choice will come back and bite you like it has the OP, but that's the free choice people can make.First thing I did is ask them to service it instead.
you have now limited the full sale potential of that car to a point a lot of dealers would not even take it in and buyers won't even give it a chance.
Have you noticed one thing with car sales ,, RPM and JZM and the like get the same cars back in to sell, the key thing you read is "was looked after buy ourselves" nothing wrong in that but it seems most sellers are stuck with giving the car back to RPM, JZM etc and other dealers won't take them on. eps the likes of your OPC ,Redline, Romans, Top555, Tom Hartley etc who all demand full dealer history.
As cars then sell for less and less there then is a Hierarchy of dealers which is on a sliding scale, the worst cars end up at GC motors, just above that is Criffords etc etc the top cars end up at the well known places we all know and love.
So choosing not to have a OPC history has put your car on the path to the bottom on the Hierarchy scale going forward, it's now a 2nd tier car as it stands,(like it or not) the next person will not bother with OPC either now and so the car starts to fall to the bottom of the triangle to a point it will end up with over revs and be for sale at GC motors in 5 years lol
you also void the 10 year body and paint warranty once out the OPC network as one of the key stamps is the condition of the car to allow the 10 year paint warranty. your 3rd party dealers will not support a paint defect on a 8 year old car, your OPC will.
it very easy to bring up examples, to quote a paint issue on a 6 year old car !
"his car was taken to a Porsche OPC and they noted the rust problem and then said that they didn't have to stand by their corrosion warranty as the car never had it's 2nd 'official bodywork inspection' because it was serviced at independent porsche specialists"
Porsche911R said:
That choice will come back and bite you like it has the OP, but that's the free choice people can make.
you have now limited the full sale potential of that car to a point a lot of dealers would not even take it in and buyers won't even give it a chance.
Have you noticed one thing with car sales ,, RPM and JZM and the like get the same cars back in to sell, the key thing you read is "was looked after buy ourselves" nothing wrong in that but it seems most sellers are stuck with giving the car back to RPM, JZM etc and other dealers won't take them on. eps the likes of your OPC ,Redline, Romans, Top555, Tom Hartley etc who all demand full dealer history.
As cars then sell for less and less there then is a Hierarchy of dealers which is on a sliding scale, the worst cars end up at GC motors, just above that is Criffords etc etc the top cars end up at the well known places we all know and love.
So choosing not to have a OPC history has put your car on the path to the bottom on the Hierarchy scale going forward, it's now a 2nd tier car as it stands,(like it or not) the next person will not bother with OPC either now and so the car starts to fall to the bottom of the triangle to a point it will end up with over revs and be for sale at GC motors in 5 years lol
you also void the 10 year body and paint warranty once out the OPC network as one of the key stamps is the condition of the car to allow the 10 year paint warranty. your 3rd party dealers will not support a paint defect on a 8 year old car, your OPC will.
it very easy to bring up examples, to quote a paint issue on a 6 year old car !
"his car was taken to a Porsche OPC and they noted the rust problem and then said that they didn't have to stand by their corrosion warranty as the car never had it's 2nd 'official bodywork inspection' because it was serviced at independent porsche specialists"
More BS David, you keep paying you OPC tax. you have now limited the full sale potential of that car to a point a lot of dealers would not even take it in and buyers won't even give it a chance.
Have you noticed one thing with car sales ,, RPM and JZM and the like get the same cars back in to sell, the key thing you read is "was looked after buy ourselves" nothing wrong in that but it seems most sellers are stuck with giving the car back to RPM, JZM etc and other dealers won't take them on. eps the likes of your OPC ,Redline, Romans, Top555, Tom Hartley etc who all demand full dealer history.
As cars then sell for less and less there then is a Hierarchy of dealers which is on a sliding scale, the worst cars end up at GC motors, just above that is Criffords etc etc the top cars end up at the well known places we all know and love.
So choosing not to have a OPC history has put your car on the path to the bottom on the Hierarchy scale going forward, it's now a 2nd tier car as it stands,(like it or not) the next person will not bother with OPC either now and so the car starts to fall to the bottom of the triangle to a point it will end up with over revs and be for sale at GC motors in 5 years lol
you also void the 10 year body and paint warranty once out the OPC network as one of the key stamps is the condition of the car to allow the 10 year paint warranty. your 3rd party dealers will not support a paint defect on a 8 year old car, your OPC will.
it very easy to bring up examples, to quote a paint issue on a 6 year old car !
"his car was taken to a Porsche OPC and they noted the rust problem and then said that they didn't have to stand by their corrosion warranty as the car never had it's 2nd 'official bodywork inspection' because it was serviced at independent porsche specialists"
The likes of JZM, 911 Virgin, RPM stock the best cars which are often too old for OPC's.
OPC's are there to sell new cars and they'll part exchange a used model if they can take a decent margin. OPC's are even starting to wake-up to the fact that there is more to be made in Classic Porsche.
When buying or selling a used Porsche it's all about Condition, History and Demand.
Just choose a reputable dealer be it OPC or Indie.
I am on my fifth Porsche (three Boxsters, one Cayman and sandwiched in there a second hand 997/2 Carrera S). I have always used the Porsche dealer network exclusively for all maintenance. The Porsche dealer network are kept up to date with software updates, recalls, and you know for a certainty only genuine Porsche spares will be used which is not necessarily the case with independents. . Also as has been alluded to here the additional cost of OPC maintenance is offset by the residual values of cars with a full Porsche service history.
The only reason I stay with Porsche Club GB is for the 10% discounts, I find the local group cliquey and not at all welcoming, so I stay well clear.
The only reason I stay with Porsche Club GB is for the 10% discounts, I find the local group cliquey and not at all welcoming, so I stay well clear.
g7jhp said:
More BS David, you keep paying you OPC tax.
The likes of JZM, 911 Virgin, RPM stock the best cars which are often too old for OPC's.
OPC's are there to sell new cars and they'll part exchange a used model if they can take a decent margin. OPC's are even starting to wake-up to the fact that there is more to be made in Classic Porsche.
When buying or selling a used Porsche it's all about Condition, History and Demand.
Just choose a reputable dealer be it OPC or Indie.
I disagree, and actually agree with 911R on his points. By going indie on a car under, say, 10 years old, you're limiting the pool of buyers for your car. Like it or not, lots of buyers will not know the UK indies by name and will look for OPC service stamps. Not an issue if your car is a keeper, but with an eye on resale I'd always use an OPC for services on a younger car. Breaking the OPC sequence is a big decision and as I said earlier there are consequences, like it or not.The likes of JZM, 911 Virgin, RPM stock the best cars which are often too old for OPC's.
OPC's are there to sell new cars and they'll part exchange a used model if they can take a decent margin. OPC's are even starting to wake-up to the fact that there is more to be made in Classic Porsche.
When buying or selling a used Porsche it's all about Condition, History and Demand.
Just choose a reputable dealer be it OPC or Indie.
Twinfan said:
I disagree, and actually agree with 911R on his points. By going indie on a car under, say, 10 years old, you're limiting the pool of buyers for your car. Like it or not, lots of buyers will not know the UK indies by name and will look for OPC service stamps. Not an issue if your car is a keeper, but with an eye on resale I'd always use an OPC for services on a younger car. Breaking the OPC sequence is a big decision and as I said earlier there are consequences, like it or not.
Age being the key point. Back to my earlier point OPC serving is about OPC warranty.
As I stated the likes of JZM, RPM, 911 Virgin are focused on cars which are older hence why OPCs weren't selling them.
The only concern on breaking the OPC sequence is making it hard to warranty. After 10 years (I believe) it's not an option, so an easier choice.
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