Discussion
I found the Chimaera without PAS a bit (!) heavier to drive, but you get a lot more road info through the wheels in a non-PAS car, which comes in handy.
I drive my un-PAS-ed Griff 500 without too many problems. On the roads it's fine, it's only when I come to park up that I find it a bit heavy going. But nothing impossible to live with.
You can always retrofit the PAS if you buy a non-PAS car and then decide you must have the assistance. But personally, I prefer to live without because it's just one more thing to go wrong...
I drive my un-PAS-ed Griff 500 without too many problems. On the roads it's fine, it's only when I come to park up that I find it a bit heavy going. But nothing impossible to live with.
You can always retrofit the PAS if you buy a non-PAS car and then decide you must have the assistance. But personally, I prefer to live without because it's just one more thing to go wrong...
.. quote:
It's for the golf playing community. IMHO.
Actually it enables you to drive the car quicker and on the edge because you can catch slides faster because it takes less effort to turn the wheel due to the PAS and smaller ratio. As for the feel thing... if you rely on the feel through the steering wheel to tell when the car is sliding you'll never catch it because it is too late. Remember the phrase seat of the pants well that exactly what should be done.
Give me PAS every time. It would be on my must have list.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 18th September 19:48
Remember that the P.A.S on a Chimaera is not like the sort of set up found on a Jag XJ or '78 Chevy Caprice, in that the "feel" isn't taken away.
Done a track day today in my Chimaera and my arms know about it ! - thats WITH power steering.
Wouldnt like to do a full track day in non PAS Chim.
4.0 for scaring AudiTT225,Cossies,BMW330ci etc
4.5 for scaring BoxterS,Modded Imprezza,M power Bimmers.
5.0 for scaring ,the driver, mostly.
Done a track day today in my Chimaera and my arms know about it ! - thats WITH power steering.
Wouldnt like to do a full track day in non PAS Chim.
4.0 for scaring AudiTT225,Cossies,BMW330ci etc
4.5 for scaring BoxterS,Modded Imprezza,M power Bimmers.
5.0 for scaring ,the driver, mostly.
I really don't get this. I understand Steve's argument that the Tuscan racecars have PAS as it allows you to catch a slide more quickly (I know I’m paraphrasing you there a bit Steve, sorry) but I didn’t buy my car primarily for the track. When I tested cars before I bought my Griffith, replacing an S3c, I really preferred driving the non-PAS cars to the PAS equipped cars. Now that was 3.5 years ago and maybe TVR's PAS has advanced a bit since, don’t know, but I honestly preferred it.
Now last month I did my first track day, plenty of track time with open pit lane all day, and I didn't feel the steering was heavy and I didn't feel like my arms were bruised or strained the next day either. Now I'm not a Mr. Muscle type guy so why do so many people say you need arms like Arnie’ to steer a non-PAS TVR? Could it be they have never driven one and are just repeating what they have heard elsewhere? Rich...
Now last month I did my first track day, plenty of track time with open pit lane all day, and I didn't feel the steering was heavy and I didn't feel like my arms were bruised or strained the next day either. Now I'm not a Mr. Muscle type guy so why do so many people say you need arms like Arnie’ to steer a non-PAS TVR? Could it be they have never driven one and are just repeating what they have heard elsewhere? Rich...
To be honest Rich, I can see where the comments come from, the steering with non PAS is "heavy" and if you're parking in a tight spot and trying to move the wheels without any rolling motion you're basically stuffed.
The ratio of the non PAS rack however seems nicely high so you don't need a massive amount of movement to get a good effect at the wheels, and when on the move there are no real "weight" issues.
I'm convinced that whilst the steering isn't a problem to me, my wife will not be too keen on it though..
Cheers
Matt.
The ratio of the non PAS rack however seems nicely high so you don't need a massive amount of movement to get a good effect at the wheels, and when on the move there are no real "weight" issues.
I'm convinced that whilst the steering isn't a problem to me, my wife will not be too keen on it though..
Cheers
Matt.
Interestingly Matt, I was getting straight out of my S3c into the Griff's and Chimaeras I was trying, both my wife (who is 5'4") and I prefered the non-PAS cars and my S felt heavier in contrast. I guess it is all down to personal preference and specific cars. Can't beat testing them yourself to form an opinion eh? Rich...
'Actually it enables you to drive the car quicker and on the edge because you can catch slides faster because it takes less effort to turn the wheel due to the PAS and smaller ratio'
I can see where your coming from Steve, but the way TVR's are setup if you've gone so far that you need a wad of opposite lock to catch it you're probably too late. Being contrary by nature
(and owning a non-PAS Chim) I have too say I think I could go every bit as fast, if not faster than a PAS car. I tried a PAS 4.5 before mine and while the steering is not exactly devoid of feel, you certainly loose some of the finer details of whats going on up front compared to my non-PAS car. Also, the roadfeel at 7/10ths is much nicer, car just feels more alive. Cant argue that its heavy under load, but the car only weighs about 1100kg with 50%ish over fronts so its not that bad. Guess its just one of those objective opinion things. Give me non-PAS every time.
I can see where your coming from Steve, but the way TVR's are setup if you've gone so far that you need a wad of opposite lock to catch it you're probably too late. Being contrary by nature
(and owning a non-PAS Chim) I have too say I think I could go every bit as fast, if not faster than a PAS car. I tried a PAS 4.5 before mine and while the steering is not exactly devoid of feel, you certainly loose some of the finer details of whats going on up front compared to my non-PAS car. Also, the roadfeel at 7/10ths is much nicer, car just feels more alive. Cant argue that its heavy under load, but the car only weighs about 1100kg with 50%ish over fronts so its not that bad. Guess its just one of those objective opinion things. Give me non-PAS every time. quote:
I have too say I think I could go every bit as fast, if not faster than a PAS car
Mines got PAS and it's faster than yours
And it's definately the steering, not the "drive it like you stole it" attitude
I think we need a nice time trial to settle this PAS or no PAS debate once and for all
FWIW I like PAS tvrs and don't like non-PAS tvrs. but I'm a little fella and not very strong. non - PAS is just too much like hard work, I ache and sweat after even relatively mild cross country drives without PAS. I'd hate to have to catch a big thrid gear slide in one without it .. for me it's as much safety related as driver comfort.
>> Edited by joospeed on Thursday 19th September 13:47
>> Edited by joospeed on Thursday 19th September 13:47
So the TVR setup is such that you can't catch it on opposite lock???? Hmmmm
Well as a winner of the TVR Sprint Championship and having spent a lot of weekends catching slides with opposite lock (but not all it must be said, I think I can say that the ability to apply opposite lock is nothing to do with the car or its setup but the driver's ability to recognise the car is getting out of shape earlier enough to apply opposite lock, the time it takes to apply it and remove it again (which is where PAS is a big help) and the ability to co-ordinate this with what is causing the opposite lock to be needed in the first place, usually but not always the throttle.
Could I do it when I started no. Did I need to get a lot of instruction yes. Can I get better at it, certainly.
My first experience of hands on opposite lock was in the 390 at Donnington with Perry McCarthy. Absolutely stunning control and taught me that the car wasn't the reasons for its inability to go, I was.Mastering a TVR and catching slides is a challenge and a skill but that is what driving a TVR is all about. Having PAS is just a help. It is decreed as being wimpish and for golfers but that to me indicates that a bit of education is required.
There is also the fatigue aspect on tracks where it can be absolutely knackering and when you are tired, that's when you make mistakes. Again PAS is less tiring and helps.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Well as a winner of the TVR Sprint Championship and having spent a lot of weekends catching slides with opposite lock (but not all it must be said, I think I can say that the ability to apply opposite lock is nothing to do with the car or its setup but the driver's ability to recognise the car is getting out of shape earlier enough to apply opposite lock, the time it takes to apply it and remove it again (which is where PAS is a big help) and the ability to co-ordinate this with what is causing the opposite lock to be needed in the first place, usually but not always the throttle.
Could I do it when I started no. Did I need to get a lot of instruction yes. Can I get better at it, certainly.
My first experience of hands on opposite lock was in the 390 at Donnington with Perry McCarthy. Absolutely stunning control and taught me that the car wasn't the reasons for its inability to go, I was.Mastering a TVR and catching slides is a challenge and a skill but that is what driving a TVR is all about. Having PAS is just a help. It is decreed as being wimpish and for golfers but that to me indicates that a bit of education is required.
There is also the fatigue aspect on tracks where it can be absolutely knackering and when you are tired, that's when you make mistakes. Again PAS is less tiring and helps.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
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