Quitting PhD - employers perspective?
Discussion
Hello - I really am not enjoying my PhD. I'm nearly 30 and realise that I need to grow up a bit now. It's in electronic engineering - more specifically fibre optical communications.
I'm not worried about the immediate financial burden. I am fortunate to also be a class 1 truck driver. I can earn anywhere from 600-1200 a week doing that whilst I find something else. But I'm not sure if it would be enough to keep me happy for the rest of my working life.
What I want to know is how employers would take this? Would it be held against me? I've not been inactive - I've been working as a truck driver at the same time. I've just realised I can't financially live on a stipend amount alone, and to be honest I can't have a relationship, a PhD and a job all at the same time and stay healthy.
Any advice hugely appreciated.
I'm not worried about the immediate financial burden. I am fortunate to also be a class 1 truck driver. I can earn anywhere from 600-1200 a week doing that whilst I find something else. But I'm not sure if it would be enough to keep me happy for the rest of my working life.
What I want to know is how employers would take this? Would it be held against me? I've not been inactive - I've been working as a truck driver at the same time. I've just realised I can't financially live on a stipend amount alone, and to be honest I can't have a relationship, a PhD and a job all at the same time and stay healthy.
Any advice hugely appreciated.
Ask yourself - why do you want a PhD? What will you do with it?
I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
dxg said:
Ask yourself - why do you want a PhD? What will you do with it?
I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
As opposed to 2AM when?I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
dxg said:
Ask yourself - why do you want a PhD? What will you do with it?
I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
I have zero interest in a career in academia. I thought I did. But I don't really like (most) of the people. And I really don't like the petty politics of it all. I'd rather work in the 'real world' and work on real things. I supervise many and people that face your question often realise they haven't thought beyond the viva. Have you?
(For example, do you want to be the kind of person that's still working / browsing PH at almost 2am in the morning?)
I have no problem working long hours. I have no problem staying up until 2am working. I do have a problem doing so to do pointless things which have no real value - just to create some paper which will be read by no one and serve no good.
Well, I've had two relationships fall apart because of the workload. My legacy will be the papers that I leave behind. I guess that, without being so driven by your own desire to find out more about your field - and to know things that others don't yet know - it's not the career for you.
Work-life balance in academia is non-existent and you're already identifying it as an issue, so you're best of quitting. I feel sorry for your supervisor, but it's a risk we all take...
Work-life balance in academia is non-existent and you're already identifying it as an issue, so you're best of quitting. I feel sorry for your supervisor, but it's a risk we all take...
dxg said:
Well, I've had two relationships fall apart because of the workload. My legacy will be the papers that I leave behind. I guess that, without being so driven by your own desire to find out more about your field - and to know things that others don't yet know - it's not the career for you.
Work-life balance in academia is non-existent and you're already identifying it as an issue, so you're best of quitting. I feel sorry for your supervisor, but it's a risk we all take...
I also work in academia and wouldn't agree with this. The work-life balance is what you make it, and I mostly have a great work-life balance. I rarely work at the weekend (that's my family time), I'm home by 6:30pm most nights and won't do anything in the evenings unless a deadline is looming. I get to work early and plan my time carefully, only bid for funding where I know I'll have a good chance of success and can spend time writing a high quality bid (unlike some I know who submit average quality bids to every opportunity available- the scatter-gun approach). As the research group grows I spend less time actually writing papers from scratch, as the PhD and post-doctoral researchers will be doing this and I'll simply review and add to them before submission. Work-life balance in academia is non-existent and you're already identifying it as an issue, so you're best of quitting. I feel sorry for your supervisor, but it's a risk we all take...
I've rapidly progressed through the ranks (3x promotions in 9 years), so must be doing something right. I travel around the world as part of my work, either as part of the funded projects or to present work at conferences; this obviously impacts home life, but isn't an overly frequent occurrence.
OP- what exactly is it you're not enjoying about the PhD? How far in are you?
If you can finish it I would say crack on.
The reason I say this is I didn't finish my PhD due to divorce, illness and then funding difficulties (exclusion for non payment of fees). I still wish I had managed to finish it and I am more than 10 years on. This is despite not enjoying it and realising I probably wouldn’t want to work in the field afterwards.
Having said that, I now have a decent career and have just hired someone else who didn't finish his PhD either.
The reason I say this is I didn't finish my PhD due to divorce, illness and then funding difficulties (exclusion for non payment of fees). I still wish I had managed to finish it and I am more than 10 years on. This is despite not enjoying it and realising I probably wouldn’t want to work in the field afterwards.
Having said that, I now have a decent career and have just hired someone else who didn't finish his PhD either.
Edited by oldbanger on Friday 31st August 09:26
Almost no employer will care that you didn't finish it. Have a decent story to tell, about why you started it, and why you stopped.
Definitely don't mention work life balance.
If you think academia might be too demanding for you time wise, then I think you may be in for a shock.
Anyway, lots of opportunities for technical folks, sounds to me though as though you'd be happy being a truck driver tbh, setting your own hours and the solitary nature of it.
StuTheGrouch said:
I also work in academia and wouldn't agree with this. The work-life balance is what you make it, and I mostly have a great work-life balance. I rarely work at the weekend (that's my family time), I'm home by 6:30pm most nights and won't do anything in the evenings unless a deadline is looming. I get to work early and plan my time carefully, only bid for funding where I know I'll have a good chance of success and can spend time writing a high quality bid (unlike some I know who submit average quality bids to every opportunity available- the scatter-gun approach). As the research group grows I spend less time actually writing papers from scratch, as the PhD and post-doctoral researchers will be doing this and I'll simply review and add to them before submission.
I've rapidly progressed through the ranks (3x promotions in 9 years), so must be doing something right. I travel around the world as part of my work, either as part of the funded projects or to present work at conferences; this obviously impacts home life, but isn't an overly frequent occurrence.
OP- what exactly is it you're not enjoying about the PhD? How far in are you?
What Stu writes here is very similar to my experience/career as an academic in engineering. OP - have you discussed your thoughts with your supervisor? If there's a issue with that relationship have you another supervisor or academic in your group to discuss it with?I've rapidly progressed through the ranks (3x promotions in 9 years), so must be doing something right. I travel around the world as part of my work, either as part of the funded projects or to present work at conferences; this obviously impacts home life, but isn't an overly frequent occurrence.
OP- what exactly is it you're not enjoying about the PhD? How far in are you?
Vaud said:
OP - have you looked to see if your University has PHD hardship funds? They may do and may help offset your need to work.
I don't really qualify for hardship. My financial problems are because I like to have decent things. I've got a motorbike and a car with a roof that comes down (not an expensive one mind you) - and I like to go on holiday 2/3 times a year.
Dr Slotter said:
What Stu writes here is very similar to my experience/career as an academic in engineering. OP - have you discussed your thoughts with your supervisor? If there's a issue with that relationship have you another supervisor or academic in your group to discuss it with?
I've decided to have a MTFU pill and just work a bit harder. I will concentrate on it fully until christmas and see how I am feeling. If I still don't like it then I will be leaving and getting a normal job. And it won't be driving. milkround said:
I don't really qualify for hardship.
My financial problems are because I like to have decent things. I've got a motorbike and a car with a roof that comes down (not an expensive one mind you) - and I like to go on holiday 2/3 times a year.
OK, so put them on hold and focus on your PHD like every other doctorate. It will probably stand you in good stead in the long run.My financial problems are because I like to have decent things. I've got a motorbike and a car with a roof that comes down (not an expensive one mind you) - and I like to go on holiday 2/3 times a year.
I'm an electronics engineer and have worked in industry for over 20 years. I can categorically tell you from personal experience of Phds I've worked with that having one is a massive advantage to career progression and most large employers will lay out the red carpet for you and most small companies will see employing you as a major asset. (even if you're not particularly experienced or skilled on the whole) also it'll open a huge number of doors to international opportunities, I worked for a guy with a PhD in fibre optics and he'd worked for Corning in every corner of the globe.
Personally I'd say you'd have to be a complete muppet not to finish if you have the ability.
Personally I'd say you'd have to be a complete muppet not to finish if you have the ability.
FredClogs said:
I'm an electronics engineer and have worked in industry for over 20 years. I can categorically tell you from personal experience of Phds I've worked with that having one is a massive advantage to career progression and most large employers will lay out the red carpet for you and most small companies will see employing you as a major asset. (even if you're not particularly experienced or skilled on the whole) also it'll open a huge number of doors to international opportunities, I worked for a guy with a PhD in fibre optics and he'd worked for Corning in every corner of the globe.
Personally I'd say you'd have to be a complete muppet not to finish if you have the ability.
ThisPersonally I'd say you'd have to be a complete muppet not to finish if you have the ability.
A lot of Big companies have higher starting salaries and usually give PhD folk a base higher potential due to perceived ability
Is it the subject, or the lab you're doing it in? In my experience, PhDs are one of the most poorly controlled degrees, both the supervision and the final 'marking'. I almost jacked mine in and did an MPhil, just to get the hell out. My supervisors, and I had two of them, were both psychos and I wouldn't have blamed my younger self for throwing in the towel. In the end I toughed it out and have subsequently hired hundreds of technically qualified people; enough to know that having a PhD is no measure of competence.
The correct answer is whatever is right for you. I am 46 and one thing I have learnt is that enjoying your work is EASILY the most important consideration.
I came from a very poor family (my son still doesn't believe we had no bathroom and a toilet in the garden until I was 14) but I wanted an education and was gifted at school. But my folks needed the money and at 16 I managed to get a job making tea in a branch of RBS (when it was a small, provincial bank). I worked in banking across four different employers and at 37 I was a senior exec in a retail bank, two company cars, big house in the London 'burbs and a salary 41 times bigger than the one I started on 21 years before. But I hated it. Hated it, hated it, hated it. Everyone was proud of me but it was killing me.
Moral of the story is no amount of money will compensate you for wasting your life in something that's not 'you'. My relationship collapsed sadly so I moved to the seaside to a tiny two up to down old cottage near the beach and started a little lifestyle business which gives me more than enough to do what I want. The only thing I miss is my drive and my garage! But I feel so much more fulfilled.
Funny you say about being a HGV driver, I remember reading about Des Walker, ex Sampdoria and England International footballer. Earned £30k a week about 20 years ago, retired from football and apparently now drives a truck out of Nottingham in Armani jeans to go with his hi-viz jacket simply because he wanted to be a truck driver!
Be happy, whatever that means to you.
I came from a very poor family (my son still doesn't believe we had no bathroom and a toilet in the garden until I was 14) but I wanted an education and was gifted at school. But my folks needed the money and at 16 I managed to get a job making tea in a branch of RBS (when it was a small, provincial bank). I worked in banking across four different employers and at 37 I was a senior exec in a retail bank, two company cars, big house in the London 'burbs and a salary 41 times bigger than the one I started on 21 years before. But I hated it. Hated it, hated it, hated it. Everyone was proud of me but it was killing me.
Moral of the story is no amount of money will compensate you for wasting your life in something that's not 'you'. My relationship collapsed sadly so I moved to the seaside to a tiny two up to down old cottage near the beach and started a little lifestyle business which gives me more than enough to do what I want. The only thing I miss is my drive and my garage! But I feel so much more fulfilled.
Funny you say about being a HGV driver, I remember reading about Des Walker, ex Sampdoria and England International footballer. Earned £30k a week about 20 years ago, retired from football and apparently now drives a truck out of Nottingham in Armani jeans to go with his hi-viz jacket simply because he wanted to be a truck driver!
Be happy, whatever that means to you.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff