Anyone Know About Coachbuilding / Bus Conversions?
Discussion
Next in the series of hair brained business ideas.. . 
My office is on a farm and I'm one of several small businesses present. The offices / business are various sizes, in total there are about 50 people on site during the working day. The offices don't have many refreshment facilities - just a simple sink/cupboard/microwave/toaster in one corner.
I was talking to one of the other business owners the other day about the lack of break out / eating facilities and how its ok in the summer because you can sit out in the courtyard but in winter there's no real way of escaping eating lunch at your desk. We were also talking about the hassle of bringing sarnies or having to go out to buy food. One idea is to get on to M+S or one of the other local "Aluminium Duvet" sandwich vans and get them to include us in their rounds. But another more hair brained idea is to start a business with a bus that could be turned in to a diner. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience of buying / converting / maintaining an old bus and can tell me not to be so stupid. A RouteMaster would be fab but a quick glance on ebay suggests you need 35-50K to buy a runner. My idea would be to at least have a double decker, which could be kitted out as a diner with a kitchenette for making hot food and sandwiches. In the summer we could put tables and chairs out, maybe under an awning. The farm hosts weddings at the weekend so there may even be a possibility of offering it as an addtional bar or refreshment area. I'd be looking to do a quality conversion and have decent facilities - whilst not fine dining I'd definitely be aiming at something like this level http://www.thebusbusiness.com/the-rosebery/ rather than a rusty old "playbus" type conversion with some picnic tables in it.
So - how mad on a scale of 1-10? And if not completely a non starter, where would I start to find the right people to do the conversion work?
My office is on a farm and I'm one of several small businesses present. The offices / business are various sizes, in total there are about 50 people on site during the working day. The offices don't have many refreshment facilities - just a simple sink/cupboard/microwave/toaster in one corner.
I was talking to one of the other business owners the other day about the lack of break out / eating facilities and how its ok in the summer because you can sit out in the courtyard but in winter there's no real way of escaping eating lunch at your desk. We were also talking about the hassle of bringing sarnies or having to go out to buy food. One idea is to get on to M+S or one of the other local "Aluminium Duvet" sandwich vans and get them to include us in their rounds. But another more hair brained idea is to start a business with a bus that could be turned in to a diner. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience of buying / converting / maintaining an old bus and can tell me not to be so stupid. A RouteMaster would be fab but a quick glance on ebay suggests you need 35-50K to buy a runner. My idea would be to at least have a double decker, which could be kitted out as a diner with a kitchenette for making hot food and sandwiches. In the summer we could put tables and chairs out, maybe under an awning. The farm hosts weddings at the weekend so there may even be a possibility of offering it as an addtional bar or refreshment area. I'd be looking to do a quality conversion and have decent facilities - whilst not fine dining I'd definitely be aiming at something like this level http://www.thebusbusiness.com/the-rosebery/ rather than a rusty old "playbus" type conversion with some picnic tables in it.
So - how mad on a scale of 1-10? And if not completely a non starter, where would I start to find the right people to do the conversion work?
Main issue I see is, you wont get much change from 100k, plus needing staff, food certificates etc.
All to feed about 20-30 people lunch at £3-5 a pop 5 days a week.
Thats £2,000 a month turnover, under £500 profit I would imagine
It's just not a viable idea, especially with the vintage double decker bus idea.
There is scope for providing food, get yourself a cheap catering van, trailer, or just ask someone to come in for an hour a day and sell food, biggest issue is only 50 people, most of which already bring lunch in and wont all stop overnight and start buying lunch 5 days a week.
All to feed about 20-30 people lunch at £3-5 a pop 5 days a week.
Thats £2,000 a month turnover, under £500 profit I would imagine
It's just not a viable idea, especially with the vintage double decker bus idea.
There is scope for providing food, get yourself a cheap catering van, trailer, or just ask someone to come in for an hour a day and sell food, biggest issue is only 50 people, most of which already bring lunch in and wont all stop overnight and start buying lunch 5 days a week.
All good points.
One of the key benefits of the bus is it provides the place to sit and eat lunch not just supplying the food, which is why the "get someone in with a food van" option isn't really an option. There is a courtyard with a bench in it, but that's only a nice place to sit when it's sunny. The problem being solved is not just "feed people" but "give them somewhere warm/comfortable/enjoyable" to eat.
Additional revenue opportunities come at the weekend in terms of catering at events etc. Plus the farm where the offices are is a licenced wedding venue and they have weddings pretty much every weekend from February to October so was thinking as well as tapping them up for storage they might want to offier a "Bus Bar" as an option in their wedding package.
Downside of the Routemaster is space - putting any sort of kitchen area downstairs will be a real challenge. And you don't get any change out of 50K for a decent Routemaster to start a conversion from.
Here's an awesome conversion - but it cost almost £150K in total (including the bus) and the daily hire cost starts at £4500+ VAT. My sights are a lot more modest than that !! http://www.therosebery.com/
One of the key benefits of the bus is it provides the place to sit and eat lunch not just supplying the food, which is why the "get someone in with a food van" option isn't really an option. There is a courtyard with a bench in it, but that's only a nice place to sit when it's sunny. The problem being solved is not just "feed people" but "give them somewhere warm/comfortable/enjoyable" to eat.
Additional revenue opportunities come at the weekend in terms of catering at events etc. Plus the farm where the offices are is a licenced wedding venue and they have weddings pretty much every weekend from February to October so was thinking as well as tapping them up for storage they might want to offier a "Bus Bar" as an option in their wedding package.
Downside of the Routemaster is space - putting any sort of kitchen area downstairs will be a real challenge. And you don't get any change out of 50K for a decent Routemaster to start a conversion from.
Here's an awesome conversion - but it cost almost £150K in total (including the bus) and the daily hire cost starts at £4500+ VAT. My sights are a lot more modest than that !! http://www.therosebery.com/
Well if you own the farm and want to add facilities to make it a nicer place to work, that’s great!
However, as nice as it would be, and completely see where you are coming from, giving people somewhere to sit doesn’t pay the bills, a £3.50 lunch is the same if you have a 12k van, or a 125k bus
How about a van/trailer/vintage horse box, and something like this?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Personally, I’d rather sit in something like that, on a farm, overlooking a lovely field, than a cramped compromised top floor of a bus
However, as nice as it would be, and completely see where you are coming from, giving people somewhere to sit doesn’t pay the bills, a £3.50 lunch is the same if you have a 12k van, or a 125k bus
How about a van/trailer/vintage horse box, and something like this?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
Personally, I’d rather sit in something like that, on a farm, overlooking a lovely field, than a cramped compromised top floor of a bus
On the wedding thing, you only really have 3 options for wedding catering
1. The main caterer, can a bus with sandwich, soup and salad making facilities feed 100 people a luxury 3 course best China dinner?
2. The evening snack caterer, bacon sarnies, hog roast, pizza oven, this is your best bet, and only involves a few hours work
3. Bar, but same as 1. Can a bus designed to serve salads all of a sudden serve 100 drunk partygoers cocktails and draft beers
Jack of all master of none
This is coming from someone who has experience in this by the way, our wedding had a vintage vehicle theme, so a defender that converted into a cocktail bar, a Citroen H van which had 2 pizza ovens, a old Bedford ice cream van, and a VW split screen with cake and tea/coffee. I’ve since looked at vintage ice cream and pizza oven vans commercialy, but have not gone past concept stage.
If I was you, I would get a horsebox trailer loaded with a prep station, panini press and 1 or two wood fired pizza ovens and a few decent, classy gazebos, and tables/chairs.
This way you can serve lunch, pizzas, panini’s, salads, for both the workers, the weekend farm weddings and also use it at the weekends/evenings for events, pub carparks, car shows, village fetes etc.
Total cost, about 10-15k all in and maximising profit as can work for you a lot more and be more adaptable
1. The main caterer, can a bus with sandwich, soup and salad making facilities feed 100 people a luxury 3 course best China dinner?
2. The evening snack caterer, bacon sarnies, hog roast, pizza oven, this is your best bet, and only involves a few hours work
3. Bar, but same as 1. Can a bus designed to serve salads all of a sudden serve 100 drunk partygoers cocktails and draft beers
Jack of all master of none
This is coming from someone who has experience in this by the way, our wedding had a vintage vehicle theme, so a defender that converted into a cocktail bar, a Citroen H van which had 2 pizza ovens, a old Bedford ice cream van, and a VW split screen with cake and tea/coffee. I’ve since looked at vintage ice cream and pizza oven vans commercialy, but have not gone past concept stage.
If I was you, I would get a horsebox trailer loaded with a prep station, panini press and 1 or two wood fired pizza ovens and a few decent, classy gazebos, and tables/chairs.
This way you can serve lunch, pizzas, panini’s, salads, for both the workers, the weekend farm weddings and also use it at the weekends/evenings for events, pub carparks, car shows, village fetes etc.
Total cost, about 10-15k all in and maximising profit as can work for you a lot more and be more adaptable
Edited by sidekickdmr on Wednesday 5th September 20:21
Edited by sidekickdmr on Wednesday 5th September 20:23
I don't own the farm I just rent office space there. This hair brained idea came out of a chat with the owner of one of the other businesses.
You are right about £3.50 lunches not covering the bills. Even if we do breakfasts and coffee throughout the day. That's why I was thinking about events at weekends as well. I think you are misunderstanding the "wedding catering" bit - I definitely wouldn't be trying to cater for a whole wedding from a bus! That would be bonkers! Have you seen how small the lower deck of a Routemaster is? It was just an idea to offer the farm owners a a "value add" option for the wedding packages they offer maybe using the bus as an additional bar or "drinks and nibbles" location. The weddings at the farm tend to be a bit quirky - and I could see an old Routemaster fitting in well. Likewise - places such as Woburn, Towecester Racecourse, Silverstone are nearby that could be a good opportunity for a posh/quirky '"Routemaster cafe". The trailer idea misses the point of providing somewhere for people to sit in the warm and dry and needs something to tow it so you need to factor in the cost of a tow vehicle to your 10-15K.
I did say it was a bit of a hair brained idea
You are right about £3.50 lunches not covering the bills. Even if we do breakfasts and coffee throughout the day. That's why I was thinking about events at weekends as well. I think you are misunderstanding the "wedding catering" bit - I definitely wouldn't be trying to cater for a whole wedding from a bus! That would be bonkers! Have you seen how small the lower deck of a Routemaster is? It was just an idea to offer the farm owners a a "value add" option for the wedding packages they offer maybe using the bus as an additional bar or "drinks and nibbles" location. The weddings at the farm tend to be a bit quirky - and I could see an old Routemaster fitting in well. Likewise - places such as Woburn, Towecester Racecourse, Silverstone are nearby that could be a good opportunity for a posh/quirky '"Routemaster cafe". The trailer idea misses the point of providing somewhere for people to sit in the warm and dry and needs something to tow it so you need to factor in the cost of a tow vehicle to your 10-15K.
I did say it was a bit of a hair brained idea
Before getting as far as worrying about costs for catering conversions etc, running costs for the vehicle itself need to be thought of if you're keeping it mobile. I know a chap who deals in buses and a number of older (pre-2000) vehicles are now going to farms, business parks etc as extra accommodation or office space etc. A few places even turn them into static campers with hot tubs and all sorts, but normally the buses are parked in place and thats it - a lot of the time the engine and box will be removed for resale too.
If you're keeping it mobile, here's the basics of running a 20-30yr old bus:
MoT - £85 (Class V - you have to have an MoT if its revenue-earning)
Tyres - usually 11R22.5s or 295/80/22.5s - 6 x £250 roughly
Diesel - 8mpg
Brake drums - £120 each
Air bags - £50 each (up to 8 of them per vehicle)
Batteries - usually 2 of at £120 each
Alternator - £200-350 exchange
You get the idea. They're not cheap things to run, though with minimal use the costs should stay sensible.
A half-decent MoT'd older machine (think 1980s to early 1990s) front entrance decker can be had for £3k, though it may not come with tyres - a lot of firms have a tyre contract with one of the big brands and they effectively rent the tyres. You can buy them out of the contract but expect it to add another £1500 to the price, or they'll fit scrap tyres. If you want it to 'look' old, buy a Bristol VR (newest ones were built in the early '80s). Watch out for rotten wood framing, floors going soft and make sure the gearbox works well. On the plus side, they're almost all fitted with the best small commercial diesel ever, the Gardner 6LX. Practically unbreakable and as simple as they come.
Conversion - first things first, deal with any body issues (and there will be some). Once you start fitting all the kit inside it'll be a sod to get access to the inner panels, and they'll all have to come off anyway to insulate the vehicle. Buses are b
d cold things in the winter, no insulation, very poor seals on doors and windows, and minimal heating provision. Go to town with the expanding foam and rockwool, especially in the roof. Think about how you'll heat the vehicle in winter, remember you'll lose loads of heat though all the windows. Then you can start looking at the kitchen fit out and seating for diners....
If you're keeping it mobile, here's the basics of running a 20-30yr old bus:
MoT - £85 (Class V - you have to have an MoT if its revenue-earning)
Tyres - usually 11R22.5s or 295/80/22.5s - 6 x £250 roughly
Diesel - 8mpg
Brake drums - £120 each
Air bags - £50 each (up to 8 of them per vehicle)
Batteries - usually 2 of at £120 each
Alternator - £200-350 exchange
You get the idea. They're not cheap things to run, though with minimal use the costs should stay sensible.
A half-decent MoT'd older machine (think 1980s to early 1990s) front entrance decker can be had for £3k, though it may not come with tyres - a lot of firms have a tyre contract with one of the big brands and they effectively rent the tyres. You can buy them out of the contract but expect it to add another £1500 to the price, or they'll fit scrap tyres. If you want it to 'look' old, buy a Bristol VR (newest ones were built in the early '80s). Watch out for rotten wood framing, floors going soft and make sure the gearbox works well. On the plus side, they're almost all fitted with the best small commercial diesel ever, the Gardner 6LX. Practically unbreakable and as simple as they come.
Conversion - first things first, deal with any body issues (and there will be some). Once you start fitting all the kit inside it'll be a sod to get access to the inner panels, and they'll all have to come off anyway to insulate the vehicle. Buses are b
d cold things in the winter, no insulation, very poor seals on doors and windows, and minimal heating provision. Go to town with the expanding foam and rockwool, especially in the roof. Think about how you'll heat the vehicle in winter, remember you'll lose loads of heat though all the windows. Then you can start looking at the kitchen fit out and seating for diners....Really great insight thanks for that. I assume things like tyres will last a while if it's only doing say 500 miles per year. Any idea how long a set will last if it is mostly standing around ? I can fit an isolator if there isn't one, to save the battery, and potentially store it in covered storage hooked up to a trickle charger if needs be. One thing about the Routemaster is security, there's a few options for sealing the rear platform but none looks great whereas a more modern bus at least has a door (though even then it's hardly secure). Don't even get me started on insurance!
All useful info though, thanks. My fag packet is growing by the day.
All useful info though, thanks. My fag packet is growing by the day.
SWTH said:
Don't bother with RMs - they're silly expensive now and parts are getting dear.
Tyres - you won't wear a set out, you'll find they will perish long before. Sitting still on a set doesn't help them at all, I'd guess a minimum of 5 years for a set to last.
Thanks.Tyres - you won't wear a set out, you'll find they will perish long before. Sitting still on a set doesn't help them at all, I'd guess a minimum of 5 years for a set to last.
What's the story with your Leyland Lynx then? What made you buy it and what did you do with it ?
I haven’t updated the Garage bit for ages - the Lynx went 7-8 years ago because of storage issues. I bought it just because it was part of childhood holiday memories - travelling into Llandudno on Crosville services.
I now have a Leyland Tiger, bought for similar reasons - I used to go into town as a kid on board it. It’s also the last of its type (the body is now unique) and I didn’t want to see it scrapped. It only does 1000ish miles a year, just a fun toy really.
I now have a Leyland Tiger, bought for similar reasons - I used to go into town as a kid on board it. It’s also the last of its type (the body is now unique) and I didn’t want to see it scrapped. It only does 1000ish miles a year, just a fun toy really.
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