Failing to send off license = fine
Discussion
My wife had her first ever speeding offence(!), paid the fine, but failed to send off her license. Subsequent court summons... she's now filling in an online form with her financial details, and the form also requires mine as her partner.
I don't know how this works - presumably the idea is that she's fined according to affordability. So I earn approx double what she earns. What are the likely differences in fine if I either do or don't supply my details - I assume the court will make an assessment based on... what? Assume I earn what she earns, 20% more, national average... ?
Leaving aside the obvious point that it seems fundamentally wrong to include my income (Student Loans do the same with step-parents / new partners) is she likely to be fined more, or less, if I provide my details?
TIA
I don't know how this works - presumably the idea is that she's fined according to affordability. So I earn approx double what she earns. What are the likely differences in fine if I either do or don't supply my details - I assume the court will make an assessment based on... what? Assume I earn what she earns, 20% more, national average... ?
Leaving aside the obvious point that it seems fundamentally wrong to include my income (Student Loans do the same with step-parents / new partners) is she likely to be fined more, or less, if I provide my details?
TIA
Wow, in the days of computers you still need to send a card in the post!!!
Actually, when I got my 3 points I think I did read the instructions and send in my card.
The fines are partly means tested and so they need income and expenditure. You must fill out your bit or the state can make the money out of you next but it’s still their fine if you see what I mean. Your income is obviously going to have an effect but not in the way you think. Read this:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-m...
That way people like Sir Philip Green can still be fined a decent amount as he is a pauper relative to his wife.
Actually, when I got my 3 points I think I did read the instructions and send in my card.
The fines are partly means tested and so they need income and expenditure. You must fill out your bit or the state can make the money out of you next but it’s still their fine if you see what I mean. Your income is obviously going to have an effect but not in the way you think. Read this:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-m...
That way people like Sir Philip Green can still be fined a decent amount as he is a pauper relative to his wife.
Edited by Truffs on Sunday 2nd September 13:08
I don't know the direct answer to this but I have had similar experiences when dealing with the CSA (or whatever they are called now). They used to request details of the partner when assessing how much the parent should pay in maintenance.
The standard advice was the maintenance amount was not connected to the partner and the person stated a/ we pay all bills 50:50 and b/ my partner refuses to disclose those details.
If you don't tell her your income, she's can't tell them...
The standard advice was the maintenance amount was not connected to the partner and the person stated a/ we pay all bills 50:50 and b/ my partner refuses to disclose those details.
If you don't tell her your income, she's can't tell them...
Jumbo, this sounds like a sticky wicket and a course of action for dealing with something other than a court fine.
Remember, all this is due to paying a fine but forgetting to post something. Now is the time to be squeaky clean and deal with it properly so it goes away like it should have the first time rather than look like you are messing about for some pointless reason.
Remember, all this is due to paying a fine but forgetting to post something. Now is the time to be squeaky clean and deal with it properly so it goes away like it should have the first time rather than look like you are messing about for some pointless reason.
You were offered the chance to avoid court proceedings by paying a £100 fixed penalty. A condition of the offer is that you submit your licence to the relevant authority. You failed to comply with all conditions and therefore court proceedings have been instituted. This is unfortunate, but a common situation and the court is very familiar with your predicament.
Fixed penalties are fixed. The fixed penalty for speeding is £100. There is no element of an income based fine in a fixed penalty. Again, the clue is in the word fixed - meaning it does not vary. It is fixed at £100. In contrast to a fixed penalty, the court does not need your driving licence to deal with your case. If you have a SJPN then the whole process can be dealt with online.
You don't have a court summons. You have a Postal Requisition or, more likely, a Single Justice Procedure Notice. The clue is in the phrase SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURE NOTICE written in bold letters at the top of the first page.
A court imposed fine is assessed according to your income. It is compulsory to declare your income. Outgoings are optional and only relevant to repayment of the fine.
Deal with this case online. Fully explain the situation. Don't worry about partner's income.
Fixed penalties are fixed. The fixed penalty for speeding is £100. There is no element of an income based fine in a fixed penalty. Again, the clue is in the word fixed - meaning it does not vary. It is fixed at £100. In contrast to a fixed penalty, the court does not need your driving licence to deal with your case. If you have a SJPN then the whole process can be dealt with online.
You don't have a court summons. You have a Postal Requisition or, more likely, a Single Justice Procedure Notice. The clue is in the phrase SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURE NOTICE written in bold letters at the top of the first page.
A court imposed fine is assessed according to your income. It is compulsory to declare your income. Outgoings are optional and only relevant to repayment of the fine.
Sentencing Council Magistrates' Court Sentencing Guidelines at page 453 said:
When sentencing in cases in which a penalty notice was available: where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.
The aforementioned does not strictly speaking apply to your case as it was completely within your control to comply with the conditions. I.e. to pay the £100 fixed penalty and also submit your driving licence. However, it is probably worth mentioning the paragraph above.Deal with this case online. Fully explain the situation. Don't worry about partner's income.
Edited by agtlaw on Sunday 2nd September 14:02
agtlaw said:
The court does not need your physical licence. However, the police apparently need it to deal with a fixed penalty case. Ludicrous system. Write to your MP.
One good reason for sending in the licence is as a check (albeit not infallible) that the licence holder knows what's going on and that the matter isn't dealt with by someone esle to the extent that they didn't know they had points. However it then makes no sense that the Court doesn't need the licence if prodeedings are dealt with by post.
Thanks all, esp @agtlaw - impeccable response.
Turns out the online form _didn't_ ask for partner's income after all. I think wife was stressed. Left it late, crappy form crashed a couple of time etc. Guilty plea, added mitigation... No way she can go to court given her schedule, so now she gets to wait and see what the damage is.
Turns out the online form _didn't_ ask for partner's income after all. I think wife was stressed. Left it late, crappy form crashed a couple of time etc. Guilty plea, added mitigation... No way she can go to court given her schedule, so now she gets to wait and see what the damage is.
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