Discussion
There seem to be an increasing number of people, millennialls mostly, who seem obsessed by the idea of 'leadership'. Not in the sense of 'they are getting it wrong they should be doing it this way' but in the abstract. The field they go into is secondary, they just want to take charge once they are there. They never seem to consider why exactly they should know better than everyone else they just like the idea of being in charge. Not for the money or the autonomy but for its own sake.
There were always a few like this, when going to university was relatively unusual there were a few new graduates who thought they knew everything but this was mainly snobbery. An ex army officer was telling me about prospective officer recruits who said they wanted to exercise leadership but couldn't be specific.
But they were regarded as a minority of idiots, now leadership is widely regarded as an end in itself. Something to do with education perhaps?
There were always a few like this, when going to university was relatively unusual there were a few new graduates who thought they knew everything but this was mainly snobbery. An ex army officer was telling me about prospective officer recruits who said they wanted to exercise leadership but couldn't be specific.
But they were regarded as a minority of idiots, now leadership is widely regarded as an end in itself. Something to do with education perhaps?
Millennials have grown up with social media and bulls
t concepts like "thought leader" and "influencer" so perhaps they can be forgiven for being somewhat deluded.
That said, I'm not sure wanting to lead for leading's sake is anything new. I spent the best part of two decades in a corporate organisation that was top heavy with senior managers who clearly hadn't done a minute's real work in their whole lives but were now in a position to judge those who did, even though they knew nothing about the activities over which they were presiding. There has always been "career manager" types out there who just want to be in charge without gaining a sufficient practical understanding of the activities that they're managing as to be able to do so with some competence.
t concepts like "thought leader" and "influencer" so perhaps they can be forgiven for being somewhat deluded.That said, I'm not sure wanting to lead for leading's sake is anything new. I spent the best part of two decades in a corporate organisation that was top heavy with senior managers who clearly hadn't done a minute's real work in their whole lives but were now in a position to judge those who did, even though they knew nothing about the activities over which they were presiding. There has always been "career manager" types out there who just want to be in charge without gaining a sufficient practical understanding of the activities that they're managing as to be able to do so with some competence.
Maybe this is a bigger problem that employers can't describe what value a job brings to a person. Nobody wants to do meaningless work anymore - just paying the bills won't do. Being a cog is not attractive. People want more.
Decentralising power in organisations is no bad things - all the big tech firms have done this and guess what, they get things done much more quickly than the dinosaur organisations most of us work for. The old school authority figure who makes all the calls whilst the minions carry out the work is dead - those organisations are going extinct.
So maybe millennials just want some autonomy in their jobs to get st done, and want to do something worthwhile which in turn will give them job satisfaction. That's not a bad thing.
On a related note, I read an article from a former consultant. Like a typical consistent, and not too dissimilar to a lot of professions, in the 80's they were expected to be at the beck and call of seniors. Expected to do 80+ hours every week, awful menial work, to earn their stripes - all whilst giving up friends, family and any sort of social life. They gradually went up the ranks and "made it" this way losing decades of their life (you never actually make it - psychology). Today's millenials have exactly the same expectations in life as previous generations, but the difference is they won't put up with the above which is designed to make you a robot, and they have many alternative options available to them through technology. They want to work and live, and integrate the two with meaningful work they can get behind. Older generations got walked over by "the man", and bought in to the idea that they must obey or else. The education system instills this fear in to us but now knowledge and learning is available from so many other sources.
Decentralising power in organisations is no bad things - all the big tech firms have done this and guess what, they get things done much more quickly than the dinosaur organisations most of us work for. The old school authority figure who makes all the calls whilst the minions carry out the work is dead - those organisations are going extinct.
So maybe millennials just want some autonomy in their jobs to get s
t done, and want to do something worthwhile which in turn will give them job satisfaction. That's not a bad thing.On a related note, I read an article from a former consultant. Like a typical consistent, and not too dissimilar to a lot of professions, in the 80's they were expected to be at the beck and call of seniors. Expected to do 80+ hours every week, awful menial work, to earn their stripes - all whilst giving up friends, family and any sort of social life. They gradually went up the ranks and "made it" this way losing decades of their life (you never actually make it - psychology). Today's millenials have exactly the same expectations in life as previous generations, but the difference is they won't put up with the above which is designed to make you a robot, and they have many alternative options available to them through technology. They want to work and live, and integrate the two with meaningful work they can get behind. Older generations got walked over by "the man", and bought in to the idea that they must obey or else. The education system instills this fear in to us but now knowledge and learning is available from so many other sources.
‘Leadership’ is the fluffy inclusive term used to replace management in a world where anyone under the age of 40 is considered too mentally weak to take instruction from a manager. Instead you’re led by a supervisor, who is in turn led by a senior supervisor and they are led by a manager etc. Thank the public sector where niche job creation beneath you used to mean a salary increase.
This has been taught as an apparent key part of business success for at least 15 years.
This has been taught as an apparent key part of business success for at least 15 years.
silent ninja said:
So maybe millennials just want some autonomy in their jobs to get st done, and want to do something worthwhile which in turn will give them job satisfaction. That's not a bad thing.
I deal with graduates and graduate schemes and the standard of these individuals is staggeringly high. They are high achievers and have crammed lots in to their relatively short lives.t done, and want to do something worthwhile which in turn will give them job satisfaction. That's not a bad thing.They also demand much of their new employers and their new roles. Absolutely no longer being the cog as SN eloquently describes above, but want to be involved and lead at their level on projects that mean something and will bring them satisfaction.
I do note that not all organisations are ready for this.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, however I firmly believe that leadership is a distinct skill. I have seen excellent 'do-ers' be promoted into leadership positions and have zero idea wtf is going on, how to manage people or how to look further ahead that 8 hours.
It is a distinct skill that you 'have' but you can learn it through study and practice. Many, many orgs do not train their leaders and wonder why they cock it up.
The best leader I have ever worked for understood at a macro level what I did, but not in detail. It worked brilliantly. Leadership / managerial roles is allllmost a separate career path.
Leaders are made more often than they are born. You all have leadership in you. Develop it by thought training and by practice.
and
Leadership is Just Plain You
Field Marshal Sir Bill Slim.
It is a distinct skill that you 'have' but you can learn it through study and practice. Many, many orgs do not train their leaders and wonder why they cock it up.
The best leader I have ever worked for understood at a macro level what I did, but not in detail. It worked brilliantly. Leadership / managerial roles is allllmost a separate career path.
Leaders are made more often than they are born. You all have leadership in you. Develop it by thought training and by practice.
and
Leadership is Just Plain You
Field Marshal Sir Bill Slim.
Taita said:
I agree with a lot of what has been said, however I firmly believe that leadership is a distinct skill. I have seen excellent 'do-ers' be promoted into leadership positions and have zero idea wtf is going on, how to manage people or how to look further ahead that 8 hours.
+1The other issue with experiences 'do-ers' is that they often find it difficult to let others run with the ball and try to do their subordinates jobs for them.
I read that at one point IBM considered preventing techies progressing to management for just this reason. Eventually they decided just to warn techies looking for promotion that as managers they wouldn't be allowed to interfere, and many lost interest in promotion at that point.
Taita said:
I agree with a lot of what has been said, however I firmly believe that leadership is a distinct skill. I have seen excellent 'do-ers' be promoted into leadership positions and have zero idea wtf is going on, how to manage people or how to look further ahead that 8 hours.
It is a distinct skill that you 'have' but you can learn it through study and practice. Many, many orgs do not train their leaders and wonder why they cock it up.
The best leader I have ever worked for understood at a macro level what I did, but not in detail. It worked brilliantly. Leadership / managerial roles is allllmost a separate career path.
Leaders are made more often than they are born. You all have leadership in you. Develop it by thought training and by practice.
and
Leadership is Just Plain You
Field Marshal Sir Bill Slim.
What year did you commission from RMAS It is a distinct skill that you 'have' but you can learn it through study and practice. Many, many orgs do not train their leaders and wonder why they cock it up.
The best leader I have ever worked for understood at a macro level what I did, but not in detail. It worked brilliantly. Leadership / managerial roles is allllmost a separate career path.
Leaders are made more often than they are born. You all have leadership in you. Develop it by thought training and by practice.
and
Leadership is Just Plain You
Field Marshal Sir Bill Slim.
Not so long ago, I sat with a public sector council IT Manager who described themselves and their [tired, slouched on their chair, cheap polyester suited] direct report drones as "Technologist Leaders".
I have never more in my life wanted to get up and just walk out the room thinking "fk this st".
I have never more in my life wanted to get up and just walk out the room thinking "f
k this st".
Most people are born to be sheep and follow, only a few to lead. Sadly the ones who are sheep tend to get promoted (quite possibly because they don't realise they are sheep)...
But if this is all about millenials, they seem to be self important people (is this how they are now being taught?) who all think they are great and can do anything..
But if this is all about millenials, they seem to be self important people (is this how they are now being taught?) who all think they are great and can do anything..
In my experience, the term 'leadership' is used because 'power' sounds vulgar but it is power that people are motivated to attain.
But power and leadership are not mutually exclusive.
The reason the younger generation aspire to this is because they have been told that if they work hard and get a degree, they can have it. So they work hard, get a degree and expect it.
But power and leadership are not mutually exclusive.
The reason the younger generation aspire to this is because they have been told that if they work hard and get a degree, they can have it. So they work hard, get a degree and expect it.
As a milenial I look around at my friends working in big companies. My observations of them are that they work extremely hard and get results. However they think that the old fashioned work hard for a few years prove your worth is outdated.
If they are not rewarded for there hard work they walk. If they do a great job on a project and they don't get the appreciation they think they deserve they walk simple as that. Several have done this from companies with really good career paths if they were patient.
I guess they want to prove there worth but expect to be rewarded instantly for it.
Personally I have had a very different working life as I already had my end goal just had to pay my dues do as I'm told and prove I was capable of taking over. Had to take a lot of st but it is easier when you know where you will end up for it.
If they are not rewarded for there hard work they walk. If they do a great job on a project and they don't get the appreciation they think they deserve they walk simple as that. Several have done this from companies with really good career paths if they were patient.
I guess they want to prove there worth but expect to be rewarded instantly for it.
Personally I have had a very different working life as I already had my end goal just had to pay my dues do as I'm told and prove I was capable of taking over. Had to take a lot of s
t but it is easier when you know where you will end up for it.ntiz said:
As a milenial I look around at my friends working in big companies. My observations of them are that they work extremely hard and get results. However they think that the old fashioned work hard for a few years prove your worth is outdated.
If they are not rewarded for there hard work they walk. If they do a great job on a project and they don't get the appreciation they think they deserve they walk simple as that. Several have done this from companies with really good career paths if they were patient.
I guess they want to prove there worth but expect to be rewarded instantly for it.
Personally I have had a very different working life as I already had my end goal just had to pay my dues do as I'm told and prove I was capable of taking over. Had to take a lot of st but it is easier when you know where you will end up for it.
What do you think drives this in them? Is it the fake plastic youtuber lifestyles they're fed/consume so rabidly? What do they do after the 3rd or 4th time they exhibit this behaviour and become toxic to recruiters because of their patchy CV?If they are not rewarded for there hard work they walk. If they do a great job on a project and they don't get the appreciation they think they deserve they walk simple as that. Several have done this from companies with really good career paths if they were patient.
I guess they want to prove there worth but expect to be rewarded instantly for it.
Personally I have had a very different working life as I already had my end goal just had to pay my dues do as I'm told and prove I was capable of taking over. Had to take a lot of s
t but it is easier when you know where you will end up for it.Having worked with many of them, I think Millennials tend to question authority more than certainly my generation did and they tend to judge people more on how they behave than their rank/position.
I actually find it quite refreshing as aholes are typically not tolerated. They are also confident enough to try anything but can find failure difficult to accept.
This is where leadership comes in. I encourage everyone in my teams to engage, work with each other and find the answer to the problem in front of them. I try to not tell them the answer as I see it, instead I try to help them find it and in doing so they learn from the experience, grow and take responsibility for the outcome. That includes living with failure when it goes wrong. It also means they cannot blame me as it was their doing!
The best leaders want to help their teams to be successful.
I actually find it quite refreshing as a
holes are typically not tolerated. They are also confident enough to try anything but can find failure difficult to accept. This is where leadership comes in. I encourage everyone in my teams to engage, work with each other and find the answer to the problem in front of them. I try to not tell them the answer as I see it, instead I try to help them find it and in doing so they learn from the experience, grow and take responsibility for the outcome. That includes living with failure when it goes wrong. It also means they cannot blame me as it was their doing!
The best leaders want to help their teams to be successful.
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