Accountancy and Strategy Planning/Exit
Discussion
After a bit of advice if you may. At the moment i'm with a small rural accountancy firm, who are making lots of mistakes and not planning ahead with me in terms of tax positions for the future. Frankly we've outgrown them.
I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
I have been through a couple of pre IPO / float audits using the Big 4. Although diligent, they lack the understanding of nuance - especially for an SME (commercial / development property lenders in my case) so you may find yourself explaining matters over and over again - perhaps to the detriment / confusion of your strengths and USPs.
I'm unsure as to the nature of your business - or its long term goals outside what you have stated - but it sounds as if you have outgrown the parochial accountancy currently in your employ.
Happy to speak offline if I can be of assistance.
Thanks,
Matt
I'm unsure as to the nature of your business - or its long term goals outside what you have stated - but it sounds as if you have outgrown the parochial accountancy currently in your employ.
Happy to speak offline if I can be of assistance.
Thanks,
Matt
batmanreturns said:
After a bit of advice if you may. At the moment i'm with a small rural accountancy firm, who are making lots of mistakes and not planning ahead with me in terms of tax positions for the future. Frankly we've outgrown them.
I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
We went through 4 accountants before we found the right one. The last search I interviewed the principal of each practice (5 in total) with specific questions aimed at testing their understanding of our business. We ended up with a fantastic local practice with 4 partners with perhaps 120 years of experience between them. They are an asset to us and paying them for their services is almost a privilege. None of this banging the clock when I call. Absolutely brilliant.I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
Is it worth looking for a really experienced, canny financial NED rather than paying an accountancy firm? We had an amazing chap at one firm I was involved with, ex City chap who really understood the game, and more than paid for himself when dealing with the bank and when we were looking to sell.
I have a vested interest in saying big 4, especially the one you’ve mentioned. But It sounds like you might be better off with a smaller firm. The Big 4 have real strength in depth, but we are expensive. A smaller firm (or regional office of one of the Big 4) will be more used to dealing with smaller companies like yours.
I’d recommend someone like HW Fisher. Based close to GT near Euston Road. Let me know if you need an intro.
I’d recommend someone like HW Fisher. Based close to GT near Euston Road. Let me know if you need an intro.
I'm not an accountancy expert, nor have I sold my business. But I am an owner of a business which (I hope) is worth a reasonable amount so it is a question I've considered.
To secure the best price when you sell your business, it will need to be marketed properly. There is not much point creating a listing on Daltons Business, for a company worth seven figures.
So having a firm which is expert at approaching the right potential buyers, experienced giving them the right information at the right time, and who can qualify them is crucial. This doesn't necessarily need to be accountancy firm, but when I made some tentative enquiries there were few highly credible accountancy firms who were very experienced in this area and who had a good track record.
For me, I wouldn't choose one of the big 4. I believe they are too big to be focused on businesses of our size. And we are probably too fussy about what we should reasonably expect for their fees.
Putting aside the potential sale of your company, it is easy to get frustrated by minor issues and switch to a bigger firm assuming they will have more firepower. I did it myself a couple of years ago. Initially I was speaking with a partner at the new firm who was excellent. Except, when I switched over, I didn't get the partner, but instead got a fairly junior accountant who didn't understand our business, was far less experienced and made some very basic errors.
The only thing I achieved in doing was multiplying my costs by a factor of 3. So I swallowed my pride and asked my old accountant if I could come back to him pleading mea cupla
In terms of the right firm of accountants to choose, I would ask yourself how many years you would like to continue to build the business. If I was three years or less from selling, I would be actively selecting an accountancy firm who I felt had the track record in selling companies at the approx value I was aiming at. Three years gives them a chance to also help influence some of your decisions to help maximise the sale value. For example, they might advise to prepare audited accounts, even if you are still below the threshold, rather than abbreviated accounts.
To secure the best price when you sell your business, it will need to be marketed properly. There is not much point creating a listing on Daltons Business, for a company worth seven figures.
So having a firm which is expert at approaching the right potential buyers, experienced giving them the right information at the right time, and who can qualify them is crucial. This doesn't necessarily need to be accountancy firm, but when I made some tentative enquiries there were few highly credible accountancy firms who were very experienced in this area and who had a good track record.
For me, I wouldn't choose one of the big 4. I believe they are too big to be focused on businesses of our size. And we are probably too fussy about what we should reasonably expect for their fees.
Putting aside the potential sale of your company, it is easy to get frustrated by minor issues and switch to a bigger firm assuming they will have more firepower. I did it myself a couple of years ago. Initially I was speaking with a partner at the new firm who was excellent. Except, when I switched over, I didn't get the partner, but instead got a fairly junior accountant who didn't understand our business, was far less experienced and made some very basic errors.
The only thing I achieved in doing was multiplying my costs by a factor of 3. So I swallowed my pride and asked my old accountant if I could come back to him pleading mea cupla
In terms of the right firm of accountants to choose, I would ask yourself how many years you would like to continue to build the business. If I was three years or less from selling, I would be actively selecting an accountancy firm who I felt had the track record in selling companies at the approx value I was aiming at. Three years gives them a chance to also help influence some of your decisions to help maximise the sale value. For example, they might advise to prepare audited accounts, even if you are still below the threshold, rather than abbreviated accounts.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 4th September 21:35
Stephanie Plum said:
Is it worth looking for a really experienced, canny financial NED rather than paying an accountancy firm? We had an amazing chap at one firm I was involved with, ex City chap who really understood the game, and more than paid for himself when dealing with the bank and when we were looking to sell.
A good single NED or expanding your advisory board to ad a few is possibly good advice. They don't always want paying, some people want NED on their CV as a challenge / personal development (as it's a two way street)batmanreturns said:
After a bit of advice if you may. At the moment i'm with a small rural accountancy firm, who are making lots of mistakes and not planning ahead with me in terms of tax positions for the future. Frankly we've outgrown them.
I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
If you expect to sell your business for ‘in the millions’ then you will need to be on top of the numbers and ensure that the way you run your business/accounts is what a larger company would expect - if not then you’ll end up with much more stress come sale time.I wanted to bounce my idea for approach off the masses from people that have been in the same situation. I've done a 'beauty parade' of various other accountancy firms so i have a feel for whats out there.
I'm looking to grow the business to achieve a sales price in the millions, as a result i'm wondering what value the likes of PWC would add when i decide to exit? They charge a fortune! Are they worth it? Grant Thornton appeared to be too busy and others i've looked at are too far away from a practical point of view or more of the same in terms of what i have and their access to things like corporate finance etc. So, would i be better going via a big 4 and swallowing their fees in the hope that i'll maximise sales value or would it be better to go with a medium size firm who were competent and then dealing with specialist advisers in relation to the exit in the future as an 'advisory' type set up and meeting once a quarter? If so what am i'm looking for in terms of advisers? Any contacts or suggestions?
I'm confused, I've not run a business before so i'm learning as i go but i do know what my aims and ambitions are on my timeline that i have and i know we will hit the numbers involved. Help?!
A smaller, specialist company who can take you to market can make sense as they will be able to offer professional Finance Director services - should be much lower cost than using the big 4 and you’ll get better service for what you need (at least that’s my experience).
A specialist company can create your plan, find potential buyers and then help manage the sale - by incentiving them with exit bonus it’s a win/win.
I’d be happy to put you in touch with an excellent advisory firm if you PM me
i have had lot of sector experience in company sales.
Just one quick point to make though is that I worked for the largest of the mid market M&A companies for 7 years and they started after using one of the Big 4 to sell their previous business and realised how little effort they put in for their big fees...
Just one quick point to make though is that I worked for the largest of the mid market M&A companies for 7 years and they started after using one of the Big 4 to sell their previous business and realised how little effort they put in for their big fees...
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