Moving from private to public sector procurement
Discussion
An opportunity has presented itself for me to take up a new position at an NHS trust within procurement.
I’ve previously only worked with private sector companies and am obviously aware of public procurement regulations and OJEU requirements which will be different.
Just wondered if anyone had experience of public sector procurement and what your thoughts are on how it compares? Is it good having the rules and procedures in place or can it make everything slow and frustrating to actually get a decision approved or restrict the number of vendors you can approach and not offer the best value?
The particular position looks challenging (in that they are about a decade behind with procedures) but that could make it rewarding. Alternatively have another offer at another industrial company with lots of potential but no guaranteed salary increases for example but more interested in views of working in the organisation and pros/cons.
Any feedback on how you have found it moving between the 2 appreciated.
Benefits certainly seem competitive on the agenda for change bands with known increases until reaching top of pay scale so there is known progress but I guess may then get stuck compared to options in private sector companies.
Thanks
I’ve previously only worked with private sector companies and am obviously aware of public procurement regulations and OJEU requirements which will be different.
Just wondered if anyone had experience of public sector procurement and what your thoughts are on how it compares? Is it good having the rules and procedures in place or can it make everything slow and frustrating to actually get a decision approved or restrict the number of vendors you can approach and not offer the best value?
The particular position looks challenging (in that they are about a decade behind with procedures) but that could make it rewarding. Alternatively have another offer at another industrial company with lots of potential but no guaranteed salary increases for example but more interested in views of working in the organisation and pros/cons.
Any feedback on how you have found it moving between the 2 appreciated.
Benefits certainly seem competitive on the agenda for change bands with known increases until reaching top of pay scale so there is known progress but I guess may then get stuck compared to options in private sector companies.
Thanks
Timja said:
An opportunity has presented itself for me to take up a new position at an NHS trust within procurement.
I’ve previously only worked with private sector companies and am obviously aware of public procurement regulations and OJEU requirements which will be different.
Just wondered if anyone had experience of public sector procurement and what your thoughts are on how it compares? Is it good having the rules and procedures in place or can it make everything slow and frustrating to actually get a decision approved or restrict the number of vendors you can approach and not offer the best value?
The particular position looks challenging (in that they are about a decade behind with procedures) but that could make it rewarding. Alternatively have another offer at another industrial company with lots of potential but no guaranteed salary increases for example but more interested in views of working in the organisation and pros/cons.
Any feedback on how you have found it moving between the 2 appreciated.
Benefits certainly seem competitive on the agenda for change bands with known increases until reaching top of pay scale so there is known progress but I guess may then get stuck compared to options in private sector companies.
Thanks
NHS procurement can be summed up in three words, waste, inefficiency and incompetence.I’ve previously only worked with private sector companies and am obviously aware of public procurement regulations and OJEU requirements which will be different.
Just wondered if anyone had experience of public sector procurement and what your thoughts are on how it compares? Is it good having the rules and procedures in place or can it make everything slow and frustrating to actually get a decision approved or restrict the number of vendors you can approach and not offer the best value?
The particular position looks challenging (in that they are about a decade behind with procedures) but that could make it rewarding. Alternatively have another offer at another industrial company with lots of potential but no guaranteed salary increases for example but more interested in views of working in the organisation and pros/cons.
Any feedback on how you have found it moving between the 2 appreciated.
Benefits certainly seem competitive on the agenda for change bands with known increases until reaching top of pay scale so there is known progress but I guess may then get stuck compared to options in private sector companies.
Thanks
Well it was 5 years or so ago when my other half worked there in a related roll. Doubt if much has improved in that time.
RicksAlfas said:
We supply a small NHS department with low value items (less than £1,000). We can't proceed with an order until we receive both a PO and a Requisition Form... by fax! 
In my interview I asked about the IT systems they used for placing orders etc. I was shocked when they told me end users hand write on a paper order pad and then that is sent to a team who raise the P.O.Improving inefficient systems like this will be rewarding - but I imagine VERY frustrating with lots of head banging!!
Who uses fax anymore?!
NHS
No Hope Son.
It's a desperate organisation to work in if you're not a medic.
Stuck in 1970s practices and unionization, decisions based on rank and not need, you'll find it incredibly frustrating.
Only place so know where the communication department worked behind a locked door.
Run away, a long way away.
Oh and the agenda for change is a way if preventing people earning more by restricting their opportunities. Dead man's shoes springs to mind too.
On the plus side you'll never lose your job as even totally incompetent people merely get moved sideways.
No Hope Son.
It's a desperate organisation to work in if you're not a medic.
Stuck in 1970s practices and unionization, decisions based on rank and not need, you'll find it incredibly frustrating.
Only place so know where the communication department worked behind a locked door.
Run away, a long way away.
Oh and the agenda for change is a way if preventing people earning more by restricting their opportunities. Dead man's shoes springs to mind too.
On the plus side you'll never lose your job as even totally incompetent people merely get moved sideways.
Monkeylegend said:
NHS procurement can be summed up in three words, waste, inefficiency and incompetence.
Well it was 5 years or so ago when my other half worked there in a related roll. Doubt if much has improved in that time.
I get the impression that nothing has changed here for 10 years as procedures seem to be exactly the same speaking to someone who knows someone there but a new senior team being put in place to drastically improve the function and the trust now realise the value a well run procurement department can offer... fully acknowledge that even if the aim is achieved there will be at least 2-3 years of pain. Well it was 5 years or so ago when my other half worked there in a related roll. Doubt if much has improved in that time.
Get update on alternative offer today in successful manufacturing co so will then be able to fully compare.
Timja said:
Monkeylegend said:
NHS procurement can be summed up in three words, waste, inefficiency and incompetence.
Well it was 5 years or so ago when my other half worked there in a related roll. Doubt if much has improved in that time.
I get the impression that nothing has changed here for 10 years as procedures seem to be exactly the same speaking to someone who knows someone there but a new senior team being put in place to drastically improve the function and the trust now realise the value a well run procurement department can offer... fully acknowledge that even if the aim is achieved there will be at least 2-3 years of pain. Well it was 5 years or so ago when my other half worked there in a related roll. Doubt if much has improved in that time.
Get update on alternative offer today in successful manufacturing co so will then be able to fully compare.
The big issue you could face is resistance to change and the many levels of red tape you will have to cut through. Make sure you have the support of the people employing you or else you will find yourself very quickly frustrated and looking for a new job.
Good pension scheme though
Well it was, not sure if much has changed in that respect.
keirik said:
On the plus side you'll never lose your job.....
I wouldn't go into it on that basis - mergers of trusts and other re-orgs seem almost constant. Have two family members who were in very senior management positions and both got made redundant - one survived two rounds of cuts but they got him third time around. Our daughter (clinician) was Tuped to a company that is owned by a remote trust. That trust is being merged with another one. Shouldn't impact her patient facing role but things like personnel and IT support have just disappeared.Timja said:
In my interview I asked about the IT systems they used for placing orders etc. I was shocked when they told me end users hand write on a paper order pad and then that is sent to a team who raise the P.O.
Improving inefficient systems like this will be rewarding - but I imagine VERY frustrating with lots of head banging!!
Who uses fax anymore?!
Jesus. Improving inefficient systems like this will be rewarding - but I imagine VERY frustrating with lots of head banging!!
Who uses fax anymore?!
Fax I can sort of understand. It does give an audit trail and the supplier a physical signed document.
Though it can be automated into a PDF workflow and email.
You will need to mention "change". It is a business project with an IT project attached. This will impact working practices, need people to change what they do and how the behave and possibly mean redundancies or scope change. Thus the local unions will rush to "protect their workers" - even if "their workers" actually want the change and the union will spend 5 years delaying the programme to justify their existence.
I previously worked in the Private Sector at the likes of McLaren and BAE Systems. And 3 1/2 years ago took a role at an NHS trust in Procurement.
I did it as I wanted to make a difference, and I have, but it has probably been the most frustrating 3 1/2 years of my working life.
The problem isn't the lack of decision making or the red tape, those can be overcome. It is the power that the clinicians hold in regard to non-clinical issues and the way they can block pretty much anything, also the totally random decision making, that means what you would think was a no-brainer idea gets thrown out or has to go round the loop a hundred times, and things you think are contentious go straight through.
Also the most annoying issue is the levels and levels of incompetence that never ever gets addressed, they punish success (by giving you more to do) and reward failure by moving the incompetent ones to a place they can't do any harm.
If you can live with all of that, go for it. I have been promoted 3 bands in my time here so not all bad.
I am about to depart however. As I have had enough. Note that getting out again can be tough........
I did it as I wanted to make a difference, and I have, but it has probably been the most frustrating 3 1/2 years of my working life.
The problem isn't the lack of decision making or the red tape, those can be overcome. It is the power that the clinicians hold in regard to non-clinical issues and the way they can block pretty much anything, also the totally random decision making, that means what you would think was a no-brainer idea gets thrown out or has to go round the loop a hundred times, and things you think are contentious go straight through.
Also the most annoying issue is the levels and levels of incompetence that never ever gets addressed, they punish success (by giving you more to do) and reward failure by moving the incompetent ones to a place they can't do any harm.
If you can live with all of that, go for it. I have been promoted 3 bands in my time here so not all bad.
I am about to depart however. As I have had enough. Note that getting out again can be tough........
If it's like all other parts of the NHS then it'll be horrible. Unless you are in a position where you report directly to the Trust board you won't be changing anything anytime soon. You'll go round and round in circles day in day out and you'll be sad to see just how much money goes wasted.
Bertrum said:
It is the power that the clinicians hold in regard to non-clinical issues and the way they can block pretty much anything, also the totally random decision making, that means what you would think was a no-brainer idea gets thrown out or has to go round the loop a hundred times, and things you think are contentious go straight through.
can be tough........
This times 10!can be tough........
7 years ago I was working with a trust, and there was a £860k immediate saving on the table that I had identified. NOTHING changed regarding the brand of the ortho implants they would buy, NOTHING. The only change would be that the purchasing team would place the order with us, rather than directly on the manufacturer. Same implants, same trucks delivering on the same days to the same places.
(There was a circa £2m saving if they changed brands to another high quality brand, but I never expected them to do that)
8 or 10 meetings with top bods, inc CFO went great.
Senior ortho surgeon refused to accept the changes-no way at all.
They are still paying nearly £1m a year too much for their implants.
Mental.
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