Tennancy question
Discussion
I am currently renting a flat on a 6 month lease which is due up in August. For the past few months i have had a real problem with noisy neighbours from upstairs. I dont mean usual household noise, i mean even if i crank to telly up i can still hear the music or stomping around on their laminate flooring. (this is a daily occurance not just a one off)
I have approached them and asked if they could turn it down, i dont mind a bit of noise but it was getting too much especially as i work shifts. But it keeps hapenning.
Now i have told the landlord and said that it was taking the mick and that i wanted to move out due to the amount of noise, that it affected my work and quality of life etc. She has said basically, tough your in the lease till august so you will be there till august or at least pay till august.
Any tennancy people out there know of any reason i can terminate early without paying for the extra months? From what i can tell its a standard lease with the fact i can only leave by giving notice 1 month before the 6 months are up.
Any help appreciated!
Gareth
In all tenancy agreements there is something called the Implied Right Of Quiet Enjoyment.
Now this is generally for you to be able to enjoy your home without interference from the Landlord.
However if the landlord is doing nothing about an issue then there is perhaps some legal mechanism that implys that she isnt doing enough to protect this implied clause.
The best thing to do is to keep a diary of the disturbance and timings. Do this for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks call the Environmental Health.
In almost all cases of noise pollution at the first instance the EHD will ask you to keep a diary for two weeks, if you have already done this it gives them the opportunity to act quicker.
Cant you just go upstairs in your uniform and put the scare on them?
Now this is generally for you to be able to enjoy your home without interference from the Landlord.
However if the landlord is doing nothing about an issue then there is perhaps some legal mechanism that implys that she isnt doing enough to protect this implied clause.
The best thing to do is to keep a diary of the disturbance and timings. Do this for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks call the Environmental Health.
In almost all cases of noise pollution at the first instance the EHD will ask you to keep a diary for two weeks, if you have already done this it gives them the opportunity to act quicker.
Cant you just go upstairs in your uniform and put the scare on them?
Thanks plotloss.
Unfortuneately i have already tried that as i am pretty much in blues when i have spoken to them sometimes all bar stabvest and belt equipment which quietens them for a few days then it starts all over again.
I have pretty much kept i diary of whats happened when but knowing how slow the process works with EHD in our council i will be well out of here before they get anywhere.
I know the landlord may not be responsible for the other people but its not as if i can just say heres my notice when im tied into a 6 month lease.
Could i just say to them, this has been going on for a few months, i have tried to resolve it on a number of occasions to no avail, here is my notice as i cannot have peacefull enjoyment of the property. ( i think i dont have as many rights when i do not own the property)
The flat is in a small block owned by a residents comitee, the landlord didnt want to get involved with the dispute (im assuming becasue of dispute disclosure when selling now). The other party own their flat i believe so have my hands tied when trying to sort it.
Cheers
Gareth
Unfortuneately i have already tried that as i am pretty much in blues when i have spoken to them sometimes all bar stabvest and belt equipment which quietens them for a few days then it starts all over again.
I have pretty much kept i diary of whats happened when but knowing how slow the process works with EHD in our council i will be well out of here before they get anywhere.
I know the landlord may not be responsible for the other people but its not as if i can just say heres my notice when im tied into a 6 month lease.
Could i just say to them, this has been going on for a few months, i have tried to resolve it on a number of occasions to no avail, here is my notice as i cannot have peacefull enjoyment of the property. ( i think i dont have as many rights when i do not own the property)
The flat is in a small block owned by a residents comitee, the landlord didnt want to get involved with the dispute (im assuming becasue of dispute disclosure when selling now). The other party own their flat i believe so have my hands tied when trying to sort it.
Cheers
Gareth
Gareth, I let my house for several years and used an estate/letting agent, i.e. we used their letting contract which I will assume is pretty standard to the industry.
Now your question seems to be more about getting out of the agreement before its expiry rather than using the contractual obligations to quiet the neighbours (since you crashed and burned on that).
In my situation (and I'm guessing it's the norm) the contract obligated me as the landlord to the term (duration) of the contract rather than the tennant. If memory serves, the tennant could terminate with the simple requirement of providing one month's notice, nothing more and if you consider that for a moment it would seem reasonable. On the hand, the only way I could legally terminate and kick out the tennant was if there was a serious contract breach, say, like non-payment.
THT,
JT.
Now your question seems to be more about getting out of the agreement before its expiry rather than using the contractual obligations to quiet the neighbours (since you crashed and burned on that).
In my situation (and I'm guessing it's the norm) the contract obligated me as the landlord to the term (duration) of the contract rather than the tennant. If memory serves, the tennant could terminate with the simple requirement of providing one month's notice, nothing more and if you consider that for a moment it would seem reasonable. On the hand, the only way I could legally terminate and kick out the tennant was if there was a serious contract breach, say, like non-payment.
THT,
JT.
In the agreement it says "the tennant may at any time give the landlord 1 months notice of his intention to leave the premises at the end of or after the term of this tenancy as set in para 1 of this agreement by completing the attached notice to quit(para 1 states the tennancey runs from 12 feb to 12 august).. Such notice must also expire at the end of the relavent period being the day before the rent normally falls due"
I take this to mean i can only terminate the agreement one month before the end of the agreement ends ie 12 august???
I want out of the agreement as although i do like where i live i cannot keep going on with the noise. As its knackering me for work and i cant relax in my own home.
Gareth
I take this to mean i can only terminate the agreement one month before the end of the agreement ends ie 12 august???
I want out of the agreement as although i do like where i live i cannot keep going on with the noise. As its knackering me for work and i cant relax in my own home.
Gareth
I think this is because its a fixed term tenancy not sure wether yours was or not.
Its a pain as im trying to do things the right way rather then just buggar off and stop paying rent.
There are lotys or laws or rules that the agreement points to but to be honest this stuff confuses the hell out of me.
Its a pain as im trying to do things the right way rather then just buggar off and stop paying rent.
There are lotys or laws or rules that the agreement points to but to be honest this stuff confuses the hell out of me.
Here you go Gareth
My mate the ex sound officer said:
yep ya mate has to do the diary - and it has to be for 14 days at least and he needs to carry it on throughout the complaint until it is sorted - if he stops it he will drag his own complaint timescale out longer as they will ask him to do another. Basically for something to be a nuisance it has to have recurrence. He needs to note the exact time the problem starts and stops eg. 7.04am rather than 7ish as the more specific he is the better for the EHO.
He also needs to note what he can hear and how it is affecting him - for something to be a nuisance it has to effect his wellbeing and enjoyment of his own property. It needs to be descriptive too eg. how, if the music is at night, he can feel it thumping through the pillow as vibrations when he is trying to get to sleep etc - well known fact stuff sounds worse when lying down.
He's best off getting a book and having columns with date, time, problem and effects column. Get the whole family to fill it in as it shows it effects everyone.
When he makes the complaint get him to photocopy the 2 weeks worth and give to EHO or post in with letter.
EHO will then try and substantiate nuisance - if they are any good they will come to the house when the noise is most likely to happen (can tell from the diary) - they will need to make a number of visits to establish nuisance then if all is well they will serve 'notice' based on his and their witnessed accounts. This requires them to stop by law - if they continue then you then carry on with diary and witness visits as evidence for court.
Your mate should really have approached his neighbour if possible to tell them they are causing a problem and why and how it is effecting him - most people don't know they are causing a problem and it will be the first thing the EHO will ask.
If he has tried this with no response he should try to pop this in writing with some examples of timings to the neighbour as sometimes this will help.
Some people don't give a flying f*** and so if it continues then with copy of letter sent to neighbour, notes of when verbally requested and diary in hand proceed to EHO.
One last word of advice - he needs to keep ontop of EHO cos if they are no good he will find nowt will happen and he will get brushed off.
He can always take his own private action under the same piece of legislation (Environmental Protection Act) but is easier for EHO to do the enforcement for him.
Timescales - depends on how much of an arse the neighbour is. Most get scared into silence!!
Well, obviously you've read your contract but as indicated above, I'm pretty certain both parties have some minimum basic rights. I'm not familiar enough with this to say if the one month notice to leg it is in there.
The only thing I can suggest is to check with your local CAB. I'm sure they'll be able to help.
Best of luck.
PS. We found out AFTER moving to my current apartment block that our neighbours immediately below had converted their place into a commercial recording studio!!! You have my sympathy.
The only thing I can suggest is to check with your local CAB. I'm sure they'll be able to help.
Best of luck.
PS. We found out AFTER moving to my current apartment block that our neighbours immediately below had converted their place into a commercial recording studio!!! You have my sympathy.
Plotloss said:
Here you go Gareth
My mate the ex sound officer said:
they will come to the house when the noise is most likely to happen (can tell from the diary) - they will need to make a number of visits
find out what they drink, get the pizza's/curry/chinese/lap dancers in and enjoy.
You are not signed in to anything.
Ever, unless they're from Sicily.
As a tennant, you can walk from the property at any time, one months notice, provided all bills sorted etc...
I realise you may like the place, despite, but think, even if the council manage to evict said pollutants, the next lot of gypsies may be worse...
Thanks all so far.
Plotloss do you know of these basic rights, i have trawled the web but cant find anything i can understand.
Thanks for the advice from the EHO person, i have pretty much the diary as he / she suggests its just the time it will take to be honest because i have the feeling the tenancy will be up before anything usefull will happen and if it does it will just cause problems here and i could do without a full neighbour dispute! and from my dealings so far they dont really give a toss and seem to relish the fact im a copper and they are being a pain.
I have spoken with the landlord and explained the situation but her reply was basically, and how is that my problem. (which is kind of understandable) but annoying seeing as i have been here for 18 months with no problems.
Plotloss do you know of these basic rights, i have trawled the web but cant find anything i can understand.
Thanks for the advice from the EHO person, i have pretty much the diary as he / she suggests its just the time it will take to be honest because i have the feeling the tenancy will be up before anything usefull will happen and if it does it will just cause problems here and i could do without a full neighbour dispute! and from my dealings so far they dont really give a toss and seem to relish the fact im a copper and they are being a pain.
I have spoken with the landlord and explained the situation but her reply was basically, and how is that my problem. (which is kind of understandable) but annoying seeing as i have been here for 18 months with no problems.
In the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement I used with my tenants, they're basically tied for the initial term and can't terminate during that period. After the initial term then either side could give notice (landlord must give 2 months, tenant can give 1 month).
I had a similar arragment as a tenant a few years ago. I rented the house for an initial 6 months and during that time was locked in. After the 6 months was up we automaticially switched to an automatic rolling contract whereby we could give 1 months notice from the date of next payement at any point.
I suspect you might have a similar arrangement, in which case your only options are
a) Buy your way out (pricey)
b) Stick it out until August
c) Arrange to have your neighbours limbs broken.
I had a similar arragment as a tenant a few years ago. I rented the house for an initial 6 months and during that time was locked in. After the 6 months was up we automaticially switched to an automatic rolling contract whereby we could give 1 months notice from the date of next payement at any point.
I suspect you might have a similar arrangement, in which case your only options are
a) Buy your way out (pricey)
b) Stick it out until August
c) Arrange to have your neighbours limbs broken.
I know that you can just leave, this is what we did under intense pressure form a landlord (including threats of physical violence and forcing his way into the property and scaring my daughter - god help me I should have beaten the shit out of him) and we are now going through the court process.
In our case its highly likely that we will win but I know you cant just walk out unless you are willing to gamble that the landlord wont be arsed to chase you through small claims.
The law states that a contract exists to guarantee the payment of rent over a period. If you walk you are liable.
Shelter.org has some great advice. The CAB are very well versed in this but the one in M'Head is almost impossible to get hold of.
In our case its highly likely that we will win but I know you cant just walk out unless you are willing to gamble that the landlord wont be arsed to chase you through small claims.
The law states that a contract exists to guarantee the payment of rent over a period. If you walk you are liable.
Shelter.org has some great advice. The CAB are very well versed in this but the one in M'Head is almost impossible to get hold of.
Seems like it may well be a case of pay rent in june, use the deposit to pay rent in july. And hope i dont get stung to heavily. (which is what i was hoping to advoid)
But, if i leave on say 12 june doesnt the landlord have to find someone as soon as possible to mitigate losses for both parties and actively do so?
But, if i leave on say 12 june doesnt the landlord have to find someone as soon as possible to mitigate losses for both parties and actively do so?
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