pleading not guilty
Discussion
I intend to plead not guilty to a charge of careless driving, but, despite being 100% certain that I commited no offence, have some doubts as to whether there is any point in bothering to convince a magistrate that this is the case, as the 2 policeman who stopped me will be far more experienced in court proceedings and arguments and it will basically be a case of my (ordinary person)word against them (not ordinary persons).
I am very determined and am prepared to quote the International Bill of Human Rights in order to encourage my side of the case to be given equal status to the police version, but am not convinced, based on past experience, that this is possible.
My doubts have only been confirmed by reading a previous post by a policeman on this site, which gives the impression that pleading not guilty to a motoring offence merely provides a days entertainment for the officers concerned, and that the accused is guaranteed to lose regardless.
Any helpful advice greatly appreciated.
TR
I am very determined and am prepared to quote the International Bill of Human Rights in order to encourage my side of the case to be given equal status to the police version, but am not convinced, based on past experience, that this is possible.
My doubts have only been confirmed by reading a previous post by a policeman on this site, which gives the impression that pleading not guilty to a motoring offence merely provides a days entertainment for the officers concerned, and that the accused is guaranteed to lose regardless.
Any helpful advice greatly appreciated.
TR
I got in a smash in my old tail happy sierra, went up a hill on a bend and slid wideon the mix of water and diesel coming from a lorry parked further up the hill. I bounced off a telegraph pole and back across the road into a clio.
When the copper turned up in a 4 wheel drive saloon he too slid round the corner, though not quite as bad.
He commented on the conditions etc, had witnesses to say i wasn't razzing it and so on.
two weeks later I get a careless driving ticket. Plead not guilty and offered the mitigation and details - including the coppers remarks - still got bounced.
When the copper turned up in a 4 wheel drive saloon he too slid round the corner, though not quite as bad.
He commented on the conditions etc, had witnesses to say i wasn't razzing it and so on.
two weeks later I get a careless driving ticket. Plead not guilty and offered the mitigation and details - including the coppers remarks - still got bounced.
A few years ago I was charged with going through a red light. I was seen by two very young police people sitting in their car on a sidestreet. I crossed the white line as the lights changed to amber. The white line was 20 ft. back from the side street they were sitting in and on checking later there was no way they could see the line. To cut a long story short, my solicitor finally got to see their statements the night before the court case, and they had reported that the lights on the other road had been green for three seconds when I went through the junction. Having already studied the junction and light timing for my defense this meant that the lights on my road had turned red when I was (at 30mph) 120 ft. before the junction. What a pack of lies. Sadly in court it was dispensed with in five minutes. "Two officers said you did it, only you said you didn't, why would the officers lie ?" Found guilty, 3pts and £60.00. If these bar stewards have a mind to lie and you have no independant witness you are fcuked. Best of Luck.!
This is what happened : -
As I approached a wide, 2 lane roundabout to turn left , I noticed the car ahead (lowered BMW with dark tinted windows) travelling very slowly and stopping at the roundabout for no apparent reason. After about 10 secconds, during which there was still no reason to stop there that I could see, I assumed that either :-
A) The BMW had broken down or
B) My £15,000 car was about to be stolen by the occupants of said BMW ( Maybe a bit alarmist I know, but these things do happen, and it was in a very dodgy area and the car fitted the bill).
So, not wanting to wait and see if assumption B) was correct, I drove around the BMW and proceeded to take the left exit. I noticed that the BMW had followed me off the roundabout, and became a bit intimidated when it drove right up to my rear bumper. This went on for about 2 miles, during which time I stuck to the speed limit as normal. Then the blue lights in the raditor grille came on.
I kept my cool and asked the policeman from the passenger seat (good cop) to sketch a diagram of the incident, and to explain how I had been driving without due care and attention, or carelessly (he had used both phrases when accusing me). This he kindly did. As he did this, the policeman driving the car launched himself out of the vehicle and began to run towards me, waving his arms and shouting "You could have killed us!". I decided not to react to this display of amateurish behaviour, which made him worse.
The sketch didn't represent what happened, but they were (are!) claiming that I cut them up as they intented to take the roundabouts 2nd exit (straight on). The thing is, as I drove around them they must have pulled away without checking their mirrors (I don't believe they did it on purpose).
Just as the good cop was letting me go he quietly, almost conversationally, enquired as to my occupation. I deliver hire cars and told him I would lose my job if found guilty. He smirked, they drove off, and 3 months + 1 day later I received the summons.
I later realised that they had stopped at the roundabout because there was an abandoned car on the island in the middle of it, which they must have been observing as I waited behind them. If they had been in a marked car it would have made sense for them to stop and I would not have driven around them, but waited.
I would like some help on this please !
As I approached a wide, 2 lane roundabout to turn left , I noticed the car ahead (lowered BMW with dark tinted windows) travelling very slowly and stopping at the roundabout for no apparent reason. After about 10 secconds, during which there was still no reason to stop there that I could see, I assumed that either :-
A) The BMW had broken down or
B) My £15,000 car was about to be stolen by the occupants of said BMW ( Maybe a bit alarmist I know, but these things do happen, and it was in a very dodgy area and the car fitted the bill).
So, not wanting to wait and see if assumption B) was correct, I drove around the BMW and proceeded to take the left exit. I noticed that the BMW had followed me off the roundabout, and became a bit intimidated when it drove right up to my rear bumper. This went on for about 2 miles, during which time I stuck to the speed limit as normal. Then the blue lights in the raditor grille came on.
I kept my cool and asked the policeman from the passenger seat (good cop) to sketch a diagram of the incident, and to explain how I had been driving without due care and attention, or carelessly (he had used both phrases when accusing me). This he kindly did. As he did this, the policeman driving the car launched himself out of the vehicle and began to run towards me, waving his arms and shouting "You could have killed us!". I decided not to react to this display of amateurish behaviour, which made him worse.
The sketch didn't represent what happened, but they were (are!) claiming that I cut them up as they intented to take the roundabouts 2nd exit (straight on). The thing is, as I drove around them they must have pulled away without checking their mirrors (I don't believe they did it on purpose).
Just as the good cop was letting me go he quietly, almost conversationally, enquired as to my occupation. I deliver hire cars and told him I would lose my job if found guilty. He smirked, they drove off, and 3 months + 1 day later I received the summons.
I later realised that they had stopped at the roundabout because there was an abandoned car on the island in the middle of it, which they must have been observing as I waited behind them. If they had been in a marked car it would have made sense for them to stop and I would not have driven around them, but waited.
I would like some help on this please !
So the Police (un-marked) had Stopped at the side of the road without any indicators?
I would be honest in court and explain the situation as you see it, and of course if they are in a dodgy area and in a lowered blacked out BMW then it would seem reasonable to be concerned about a car jack. If Plod B acted in such a way as you suggest I would personally be tempted to complain to the PCA about their driving skills, and the possible assault of Plod B
I wish you well
I would be honest in court and explain the situation as you see it, and of course if they are in a dodgy area and in a lowered blacked out BMW then it would seem reasonable to be concerned about a car jack. If Plod B acted in such a way as you suggest I would personally be tempted to complain to the PCA about their driving skills, and the possible assault of Plod B
I wish you well
Get yourself a solicitor you fool!
NEVER try and pull a hollywood scene and defend yourself in court, it will never ever EVER work!
I was looking at a clear ban until I got a (state assisted) solicitor for a couple of hundred quid and they got me off with just points (was up to 15 points, but kept my licence)
I cannot stress this enough. DO NOT TRY AND BLAME THE POLICE, your luck will fail and you will make the judge resent you (imo, but you might be lucky - but is it worth the risk?)
Just get a solicitor, explain ALL the details to them, and then leave them to explain on your behalf - you could both say exactly the same words, but yours most likely wont be listened to.
Good luck, oh and dont forget to get a solicitor!
Si.
NEVER try and pull a hollywood scene and defend yourself in court, it will never ever EVER work!
I was looking at a clear ban until I got a (state assisted) solicitor for a couple of hundred quid and they got me off with just points (was up to 15 points, but kept my licence)
I cannot stress this enough. DO NOT TRY AND BLAME THE POLICE, your luck will fail and you will make the judge resent you (imo, but you might be lucky - but is it worth the risk?)
Just get a solicitor, explain ALL the details to them, and then leave them to explain on your behalf - you could both say exactly the same words, but yours most likely wont be listened to.
Good luck, oh and dont forget to get a solicitor!
Si.
quote:Sorry mate - I din't mean it like that - I was trying to rally support for you without an outright "Vote for Madcop" endorsement..quote:Carzee
And don't forget to vote for him in the BTaP awards
I will treat that remark with the contempt it deserves
Does anyone have crowbar to get this foot out of my mouth?
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 19th September 17:01
quote:
NEVER try and pull a hollywood scene and defend yourself in court, it will never ever EVER work!
crap.
I fought the law, I won. Twice. No offense to the good coppers here, but fcuk 'em over good & proper (the bad cops, that is). The good cops are a gem to be treasured, the rest are all too common, and to be despised. The problem is knowing who is what type...
I do agree with getting a solicitor involved, if you can afford it though. Better yet is get a nice (good) Barrister who can run rings round Plod.
I do not see why Police Tailgaiting, and sitting at a clear roundabout without signalling their intent should be permissable. Also if the BMW was blacked out and lowered etc.. then it would seem reasonable to assume that they could be car jackers, and as such acted in a reasonable manner. And why should they get away with it.
I do not see why Police Tailgaiting, and sitting at a clear roundabout without signalling their intent should be permissable. Also if the BMW was blacked out and lowered etc.. then it would seem reasonable to assume that they could be car jackers, and as such acted in a reasonable manner. And why should they get away with it.
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