Paternity leave grey area
Discussion
Hi, Earlier in the month Mrs Buzz and I welcomed our little boy to the world.
Due to reasons beyond our control she was booked in to be induced on her due date from early on in the pregnancy. All attempts to coax him out early for a natural labour failed and we arrived on the induction ward on the Tuesday and then Buzz Jr then arrived on Friday morning
So as paternity leave cannot start before the child is born I am left with a 3 day limbo while I was with Mrs Buzz was on the induction ward/in labour.
Upon my return to work my manager asked what I was doing about those three days and said i needed to book them off as holiday. I replied asking if I get any form of compassion as I wasn't really on holiday and was actually in hospital with my wife, He simply said no offered me the alternative of taking them as unpaid.
So I looked up all the definitions of the different forms of leave and it seems that none apply or help and that i can only really book those days as holiday (leaving me only 4 days left this year or do some overtime to accrue time off in leu) or take them unpaid. none are really great options.
Now I know of other people who have been given the time off as paid compassionate, but this would generally be a goodwill from the company/individual managers and not a right.
one small sweetener is that though a little research I have found out that as my contract says I get my holiday allocation plus bank holidays, I should be awarded a day off in leu because my paternity leave period fell over the August bank holiday (meaning i didn't get it as a bank holiday) - so that means I am only really need to loose two days holiday from my remaining allowance or two days pay whichever option I choose.
To be honest i sounds like the company are right with regards to the law and there is bugger all I can do! so this post is more just me having a rant.
Due to reasons beyond our control she was booked in to be induced on her due date from early on in the pregnancy. All attempts to coax him out early for a natural labour failed and we arrived on the induction ward on the Tuesday and then Buzz Jr then arrived on Friday morning
So as paternity leave cannot start before the child is born I am left with a 3 day limbo while I was with Mrs Buzz was on the induction ward/in labour.
Upon my return to work my manager asked what I was doing about those three days and said i needed to book them off as holiday. I replied asking if I get any form of compassion as I wasn't really on holiday and was actually in hospital with my wife, He simply said no offered me the alternative of taking them as unpaid.
So I looked up all the definitions of the different forms of leave and it seems that none apply or help and that i can only really book those days as holiday (leaving me only 4 days left this year or do some overtime to accrue time off in leu) or take them unpaid. none are really great options.
Now I know of other people who have been given the time off as paid compassionate, but this would generally be a goodwill from the company/individual managers and not a right.
one small sweetener is that though a little research I have found out that as my contract says I get my holiday allocation plus bank holidays, I should be awarded a day off in leu because my paternity leave period fell over the August bank holiday (meaning i didn't get it as a bank holiday) - so that means I am only really need to loose two days holiday from my remaining allowance or two days pay whichever option I choose.
To be honest i sounds like the company are right with regards to the law and there is bugger all I can do! so this post is more just me having a rant.
I 've not come across companies rigidly enforcing pat leave from birth(as opposed to from start of hospital stay/induction).. but at our place it has been 10 days leave overall, whether you start it before both (ie when induction begins, or on birth.
Ie you have 10 days "around" the birth- if you want more, you need to take annual leave (or unpaid leave).
Ie you have 10 days "around" the birth- if you want more, you need to take annual leave (or unpaid leave).
The company are right, it's a tricky one, there's not much you can do.
My work didn't ask (formally) when my kids were born, they've just started the 10 days when I've told them the wife was going to pop. Both were born just after midnight, so technically I started a day early both times, but I also went back a day early, so no one's bothered.
Have you looked at your options around Shared Parental Leave? Not around your issue as you couldn't have used it for that period either, but more generally. I've had 8 months off on full pay over the course of my two being born, got loads of DIY done with the first!
My work didn't ask (formally) when my kids were born, they've just started the 10 days when I've told them the wife was going to pop. Both were born just after midnight, so technically I started a day early both times, but I also went back a day early, so no one's bothered.
Have you looked at your options around Shared Parental Leave? Not around your issue as you couldn't have used it for that period either, but more generally. I've had 8 months off on full pay over the course of my two being born, got loads of DIY done with the first!
HiAsAKite said:
I 've not come across companies rigidly enforcing pat leave from birth(as opposed to from start of hospital stay/induction).. but at our place it has been 10 days leave overall, whether you start it before both (ie when induction begins, or on birth.
Ie you have 10 days "around" the birth- if you want more, you need to take annual leave (or unpaid leave).
It's not the company rigidly enforcing that bit, that is the law.Ie you have 10 days "around" the birth- if you want more, you need to take annual leave (or unpaid leave).
Paternity can only start from the date of birth and must be complete by day 56. If your work is starting people's 2 weeks before the birth, then they are wrong. Hence why I have called the time being induced/in labour before the birth a grey area.
https://www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/leave
For my leave I chose to take it from the day of birth and also chose to "top it up" with my holiday to mean I had 3 weeks off
Edited by Buzz84 on Wednesday 12th September 11:14
paulrockliffe said:
The company are right, it's a tricky one, there's not much you can do
meehaja said:
I had a very similar situation with our first, had a week to make up. I was offered one days compassionate leave and told I could take the others as annual leave, un paid leave or make the hours up (easier as I was a shift worker). Seems fair to me.
Yeah, it's all a bit crap really having to go unpaid, work it back or use holiday. But it's just the company sticking to the letter if the law. I know other people have had more by "mangers discression" where I work and friends in other companies have been looked after. Your employer is an arse.
Surely to makes no difference to them if you started your 2 week pat leave 3 days early, if it ends 3 days early. Or even if you used 2 days holiday retrospectively. Just take the 2 days unpaid if thats the only option.
Look into shared parental leave, have as much time off paid as you can.
Park any ideas of overtime, you are going to be very busy and very tired.
I believe (longer than 2 weeks!) paternal leave should be the default as maternal leave is, and it should be paid.
Also remember, until the child is 18 you can take an extra week unpaid leave every year IIRC.
Surely to makes no difference to them if you started your 2 week pat leave 3 days early, if it ends 3 days early. Or even if you used 2 days holiday retrospectively. Just take the 2 days unpaid if thats the only option.
Look into shared parental leave, have as much time off paid as you can.
Park any ideas of overtime, you are going to be very busy and very tired.
I believe (longer than 2 weeks!) paternal leave should be the default as maternal leave is, and it should be paid.
Also remember, until the child is 18 you can take an extra week unpaid leave every year IIRC.
Buzz84 said:
It's not the company rigidly enforcing that bit, that is the law.
https://www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/leave
Leave cannot start before the birth.https://www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/leave
You must give your employer 28 days’ notice if you want to change your start date.
Don't you just love Gov.UK
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