Refund for next day delivery that wasn't next day?
Discussion
Ordered a piece of cut perspex to be delivered pre-midday the day after I ordered it. TNT screwed up and didn't deliver it until 15:30. That meant it was useless to me, because I required it by midday. When I phoned the company that sent it to me they said they'd only refund the difference between pre-midday and next day as it arrived next day. My thought process is that I didn't receive the service I paid for so I should get a full refund for that service.
Am I being unreasonable? I feel that the company will probably get a full refund from TNT so they should pass it on to me.
Am I being unreasonable? I feel that the company will probably get a full refund from TNT so they should pass it on to me.
I think you will find that this is standard practice by most of the courier firms nowadays and is buried in the small print. They won't refund the entire charge to the sender of the goods and will merely charge them the 'next day' rate.
Having spoken to a few of the drivers it would seem that they are paid a bonus if they do make the AM deliveries which is a good incentive for them, but sometimes it's just physically not possible for them to make all the deliveries on time, in which case they just get paid the normal 'next day' rate.
Bear in mind that the majority of drivers like to get rid of the deliveries as soon as possible because in the afternoon they are out collecting for the following day, so really don't want a van full of parcels to be delivered amongst all the new stuff.
Having spoken to a few of the drivers it would seem that they are paid a bonus if they do make the AM deliveries which is a good incentive for them, but sometimes it's just physically not possible for them to make all the deliveries on time, in which case they just get paid the normal 'next day' rate.
Bear in mind that the majority of drivers like to get rid of the deliveries as soon as possible because in the afternoon they are out collecting for the following day, so really don't want a van full of parcels to be delivered amongst all the new stuff.
This is why many companies who offer next day delivery etc will have no garuntees in the small print or exclusions for courier screw ups.
Its very hard to claim a penny out of the couriers even when they admit fault. Even harder to get money out of them for transport damage or lost packages.
Its infuriating to deal with most the couriers when things go wrong as they just dont have good policies for dealing with problem packages ( from the customer/sender perspective).
You would think that if you were in the business of couriering parcels then you have policys and procedures in place to deal with mislabelled, damaged, unlabelled packages, but either they dont have decent policies or they are poorly implemented.
I've come to the conclusion that the policies are to blame. Generally in my experience, the parcel failure rate is only 1 or 2% so the couriers just dont make the effort to sort it as its not worth the money spent for such a tiny proportion of stuff through thier doors.
Also some are deliberately awkward for claims. EG TNT, we send them paper and electronic manifest copies so they know what weve sent. Yet if a package goes missing, they force us to send in another copy despite already having one paper copy and electronic copy. They say without it, no proof you sent the package and no claim. The goons even do that when they admit they have sevral scans in transit. The scans proove they have the package so why send int more paperwork? Bet its because many dont keep the paperwork and hence cant claim.
Another trick on expensive lost claims is often they ask for copies of the original goods reciept invoices. They claim they need this as our own order invoice is not good enough as they only want to refund the cost price not retail price we sold it to. Its deliberately awkward especially when you have an order with 50 plus items on it all sourced from different suppliers.
Often the time needed to submit the claim properly is worth far more than the cost of the goods so its simply not worth trying to claim. Which is exactly what they want......
Its very hard to claim a penny out of the couriers even when they admit fault. Even harder to get money out of them for transport damage or lost packages.
Its infuriating to deal with most the couriers when things go wrong as they just dont have good policies for dealing with problem packages ( from the customer/sender perspective).
You would think that if you were in the business of couriering parcels then you have policys and procedures in place to deal with mislabelled, damaged, unlabelled packages, but either they dont have decent policies or they are poorly implemented.
I've come to the conclusion that the policies are to blame. Generally in my experience, the parcel failure rate is only 1 or 2% so the couriers just dont make the effort to sort it as its not worth the money spent for such a tiny proportion of stuff through thier doors.
Also some are deliberately awkward for claims. EG TNT, we send them paper and electronic manifest copies so they know what weve sent. Yet if a package goes missing, they force us to send in another copy despite already having one paper copy and electronic copy. They say without it, no proof you sent the package and no claim. The goons even do that when they admit they have sevral scans in transit. The scans proove they have the package so why send int more paperwork? Bet its because many dont keep the paperwork and hence cant claim.
Another trick on expensive lost claims is often they ask for copies of the original goods reciept invoices. They claim they need this as our own order invoice is not good enough as they only want to refund the cost price not retail price we sold it to. Its deliberately awkward especially when you have an order with 50 plus items on it all sourced from different suppliers.
Often the time needed to submit the claim properly is worth far more than the cost of the goods so its simply not worth trying to claim. Which is exactly what they want......
My contract is with the website that sold me the goods. Their Ts&Cs mention nothing about not having guarantees for delivery.
Although, yes, I feel that trying to get the full charge back is fruitless. I think it's slightly ridiculous that the only refund necessary is the difference for next day. As has been mentioned, it means that there isn't necessarily an incentive to deliver the items.
Also, with TNT it is actually a pre-10am service. So the package was 5.5hours late technically.
Although, yes, I feel that trying to get the full charge back is fruitless. I think it's slightly ridiculous that the only refund necessary is the difference for next day. As has been mentioned, it means that there isn't necessarily an incentive to deliver the items.
Also, with TNT it is actually a pre-10am service. So the package was 5.5hours late technically.
Psycho Warren said:
Another trick on expensive lost claims is often they ask for copies of the original goods reciept invoices. They claim they need this as our own order invoice is not good enough as they only want to refund the cost price not retail price we sold it to. Its deliberately awkward especially when you have an order with 50 plus items on it all sourced from different suppliers.
.
Of course they're only going to refund cost price, Why would they refund you more than it actually costs.
IANAL, but if a late delivery would make the contract pointless, you really needed to tell the supplier that time was of the essence. If you had done that, and they had any sense, they would have declined your business.
In the real world, you can't expect anybody to guarantee next day delivery.
So yes, I think you are being unreasonable
In the real world, you can't expect anybody to guarantee next day delivery.
So yes, I think you are being unreasonable
Nickyboy said:
Psycho Warren said:
Another trick on expensive lost claims is often they ask for copies of the original goods reciept invoices. They claim they need this as our own order invoice is not good enough as they only want to refund the cost price not retail price we sold it to. Its deliberately awkward especially when you have an order with 50 plus items on it all sourced from different suppliers.
.
Of course they're only going to refund cost price, Why would they refund you more than it actually costs.
c1223 said:
My contract is with the website that sold me the goods. Their Ts&Cs mention nothing about not having guarantees for delivery......
So because their T&C's do not mention that they make no guarantees concerning deliveries, you automatically think that means that they do guarantee deliveries?Your logic is seriously flawed!
I bet their T&C's mention nothing about Lewis Hamilton not delivering their goods in his F1 car either - So does that mean you'd expect Lewis Hamilton to deliver your parts?
You can hold a company liable for what they do guarantee to do, but you can't hold them liable for what they do not guarantee to do!
I had an issue with parcelfarce, an item arriving from the USA, they sent me a letter to pay the duty & VAT and offered me a Saturday delivery for an extra £20, as it was a bank holiday the next working day was the following Tuesday so I paid my £20, changed our plans for the whole weekend based on being able to fit new parts to my vehicle, spent half of the Saturday pulling said vehicle apart in readiness but the f
kwits didn't deliver, by the time I tried to call them they said that they would refund me the £20 & it would be delivered next working day. Not good enough I said, I've spent X amount of time getting the vehicle ready & had to spend the same amount of time putting it back together to use it again, the whole weekend has been messed up as we were supposed to have gone away (I was happy to forego that to fit the new parts but by the time the vehicle was running again it wasn't worth going) I ended up threatening to take them to court for my lost time etc, they ended up offering me £50 (they had already refunded the £20) I accepted just to draw a line under it.
kwits didn't deliver, by the time I tried to call them they said that they would refund me the £20 & it would be delivered next working day. Not good enough I said, I've spent X amount of time getting the vehicle ready & had to spend the same amount of time putting it back together to use it again, the whole weekend has been messed up as we were supposed to have gone away (I was happy to forego that to fit the new parts but by the time the vehicle was running again it wasn't worth going) I ended up threatening to take them to court for my lost time etc, they ended up offering me £50 (they had already refunded the £20) I accepted just to draw a line under it.mondeoman said:
If it was that crucial, why did you wait so long before ordering it?
The timing of the order is beside the point. It was ordered when it was, with the guarantee that it'd be delivered pre-12 next day. I did in fact call to ask before. OverSteery said:
IANAL, but if a late delivery would make the contract pointless, you really needed to tell the supplier that time was of the essence. If you had done that, and they had any sense, they would have declined your business.
In the real world, you can't expect anybody to guarantee next day delivery.
When I phoned, they said that if I ordered that morning (which I did 2 minutes later), it'd be delivered by midday the next day. In the real world, you can't expect anybody to guarantee next day delivery.
As per the invoice from the supplier, the service I have paid for is next-day delivery before midday. I did not receive said service.
Surely if you pay for a service that is "pre-midday", it is expected to arrive within the timeframe? Otherwise, what's the point in offering such a service? TNT guarantee that the delivery will be within the time slot according to their website.
I'm not after compensation or refund of the item they sent. I'm after a refund for the delivery service that I paid for but didn't receive.
Anyway, I don't see why it has to have the word guaranteed in it at all. I paid for a service that I didn't receive. Therefore I want a refund. And I don't want a refund to the next best service because that isn't what I paid for or requested.
Dependant on the terms of TNT's contract with the shipper, they would either refund the full amount (likely) or partial amount to the shipper.
The shipper should refund you the full amount as that is what you paid for, you didn't pay for nor want a standard delivery. The courier companies have liability clauses for failed deliveries if the failure was due to reasons out of their control such as last week when the A34 was closed around Oxford for some 16 hours, we failed hundreds of timed deliveries due to the resulting traffic in most of the surrounding towns and villages that were gridlocked as a result. Your contract was with the shipper however so those kind of things would be between them and TNT
The shipper should refund you the full amount as that is what you paid for, you didn't pay for nor want a standard delivery. The courier companies have liability clauses for failed deliveries if the failure was due to reasons out of their control such as last week when the A34 was closed around Oxford for some 16 hours, we failed hundreds of timed deliveries due to the resulting traffic in most of the surrounding towns and villages that were gridlocked as a result. Your contract was with the shipper however so those kind of things would be between them and TNT
c1223 said:
When I phoned, they said that if I ordered that morning (which I did 2 minutes later), it'd be delivered by midday the next day.
As per the invoice from the supplier, the service I have paid for is next-day delivery before midday. I did not receive said service.
The supplier fulfilled the bit that was within their power. They shipped it in time, on a service that aimed for pre-10am delivery.As per the invoice from the supplier, the service I have paid for is next-day delivery before midday. I did not receive said service.
Their supplier was the one that failed you.
c1223 said:
Surely if you pay for a service that is "pre-midday", it is expected to arrive within the timeframe? Otherwise, what's the point in offering such a service? TNT guarantee that the delivery will be within the time slot according to their website.
And what do the Ts and Cs of the contract specify if that "guarantee" is not met?https://www.tnt.com/express/en_gb/site/terms-condi...
TNT Ts and Cs said:
8. CALCULATION OF TRANSIT TIMES AND ROUTING OF SHIPMENTS
...delays attributable to compliance with mandatory local security requirements or other events beyond our control are not included when we quote door to door delivery times in our published literature...
15. TIME GUARANTEED PRODUCTS
If we fail to deliver time guaranteed products (that we may offer and that you order) within the time specified and if our failure was not caused by any events set out in Clause 14.2 and if you notify us of your claim in compliance with Clause 20.2, we will charge you for the actual delivery service provided (e.g. before noon) rather than charging the price we quoted for the service you asked for (e.g. before 9 am), within the same product category as the service you ordered.
That's their obligation to your supplier, because they're TNT's customer. Your supplier can do whatever they please in terms of recompense to you. If their Ts & Cs are silent on the subject, and they choose only to pass TNT's recompense on to you, then is that unfair?...delays attributable to compliance with mandatory local security requirements or other events beyond our control are not included when we quote door to door delivery times in our published literature...
15. TIME GUARANTEED PRODUCTS
If we fail to deliver time guaranteed products (that we may offer and that you order) within the time specified and if our failure was not caused by any events set out in Clause 14.2 and if you notify us of your claim in compliance with Clause 20.2, we will charge you for the actual delivery service provided (e.g. before noon) rather than charging the price we quoted for the service you asked for (e.g. before 9 am), within the same product category as the service you ordered.
Of course, you may wish to take their actions into account when choosing a supplier next time, but...
c1223 said:
I'm not after compensation or refund of the item they sent. I'm after a refund for the delivery service that I paid for but didn't receive.
But you don't want to pay for the service you DID then receive...You paid for pre-10am. You didn't get it.
You got next-day. You don't want to pay for that.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff