Highest ambient temperature for winter tyres.

[Pica-Pica]

OK, we have many discussions about the lower temperature at which winter tyres are advisable/preferable. A genuine question, what is the crossover/higher ambient temperature at which they should be changed back/become less effective.

I am toying with the idea of winters (mostly cold temperatures/rain/odd snow flurry) and need to maximise their days of fit to justify.

For my situation, they would probably be a set of 18” run-flats (the smallest wheel size I can fit) and BMW offer Continental Winter Contact TS830P SSR or Pirelli Sottozero series II.
I will be keeping runflats, as the roads around here are pretty good.

[NickGRhodes]

Pica-Pica said:

OK, we have many discussions about the lower temperature at which winter tyres are advisable/preferable. A genuine question, what is the crossover/higher ambient temperature at which they should be changed back/become less effective.

I am toying with the idea of winters (mostly cold temperatures/rain/odd snow flurry) and need to maximise their days of fit to justify.

For my situation, they would probably be a set of 18” run-flats (the smallest wheel size I can fit) and BMW offer Continental Winter Contact TS830P SSR or Pirelli Sottozero series II.
I will be keeping runflats, as the roads around here are pretty good.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/winter-tyre-above-7c

Can winter tyres be used at temperatures above 7°C?
Yes they can, 7°C is generally used as the point at which winter tyres start to perform better than summer tyres. The 7°C guideline isn't a 'switch' but rather a tipping point, the further away from 7°C the temperature moves (either way) the more effective winter and summer tyres become relative to each other. However winter tyres can be used at temperatures above 7°C. Below 7°C, braking distances are shorter on wet roads with winter tyres. Even at 30mph there are significant braking benefits when using winter tyres on snowy roads. At 20mph winter tyres would stop the vehicle 11 metres sooner on icy roads.

[DailyHack]

imo there isnt one, got my winters on my 3 series now, as summers were close to 2mm - been fine in this 18c+ we are having, been great in the rain also. I wouldn't worry about it, I drive to Italy alot and many people drive all year round on them - and it is alot warmer over there than here

I am sure if I drove like a tool I could make them screech, but who drives like that on a daily basis.

[LeoSayer]

In my experience, it's best to switch to summer tyres as soon as there's no chance you'll be driving on snow or ice.

[Ninja59]

They really do begin having issues around the 7 degrees you will notice they feel a bit disconnected and slow to respond. Even on completely dry roads, their performance really comes out when it gets damp and more so wet.

You will find at either end of the season you (depending on travelling times) find a car that is not that "comfortable". For example I drive early in the morning they feel fine, but around 10 degrees they feel awful with that disconnected and draggy feeling.

In regards to your tyre choices they are fairly poor choices honestly, partly limited by runflats and bmw star marking no doubt. I did manage to get mine with Sottozero 3's for this year (literally some of the first versions in that size and bmw spec). The conti's have had a number of updates since that

[havoc]

Depends on the winters and summers in question:-

- Premium winters switching to 'super-sports' summers - probably go >7 degrees before switching.
- Mid-range winters switching to rain-optimised or all-condition 'summers', then as suggested above, switch once there's no chance of frost/ice/snow.

(Main reason: Almost no winter tyres are as good at water-dispersion as most premium-brand summer tyres)


Also depends on the time of day you usually drive. If you commute early in the morning, then while the peak daytime temp may be >7 degrees, the morning temp could easily be +/-0.


Also depends how you drive. If you enjoy 'pushing the limits' of the car in corners, then it's quite possible a winter tyre will 'overheat' after enthusiastic driving in mild conditions.

[RicksAlfas]

I have run them all year round on a Range Rover with no issues.

Plenty of cars in the South of France and Italy in August running them. I once had a hire car with them on. The dashboard outside temp gauge was reading 31 when I picked it up. I didn't get it stuck in a sandy car park so they were worthwhile.

I think people are too concerned about running winters in the summer.
It's not perfect, but it's not an enormous problem either.

[RicksAlfas]

Ninja59 said:

In regards to your tyre choices they are fairly poor choices honestly, partly limited by runflats and bmw star marking no doubt. I did manage to get mine with Sottozero 3's for this year (literally some of the first versions in that size and bmw spec). The conti's have had a number of updates since that

Nokian do some runflats now.
Not sure what sizes but my Dad has some in 16" on his 3 series.

[Pica-Pica]

havoc said:

Depends on the winters and summers in question:-

- Premium winters switching to 'super-sports' summers - probably go >7 degrees before switching.
- Mid-range winters switching to rain-optimised or all-condition 'summers', then as suggested above, switch once there's no chance of frost/ice/snow.

(Main reason: Almost no winter tyres are as good at water-dispersion as most premium-brand summer tyres)


Also depends on the time of day you usually drive. If you commute early in the morning, then while the peak daytime temp may be >7 degrees, the morning temp could easily be +/-0.


Also depends how you drive. If you enjoy 'pushing the limits' of the car in corners, then it's quite possible a winter tyre will 'overheat' after enthusiastic driving in mild conditions.

Thanks, Havoc.

[A900ss]

Ninja59 said:

They really do begin having issues around the 7 degrees you will notice they feel a bit disconnected and slow to respond. Even on completely dry roads, their performance really comes out when it gets damp and more so wet.

You will find at either end of the season you (depending on travelling times) find a car that is not that "comfortable". For example I drive early in the morning they feel fine, but around 10 degrees they feel awful with that disconnected and draggy feeling.

In regards to your tyre choices they are fairly poor choices honestly, partly limited by runflats and bmw star marking no doubt. I did manage to get mine with Sottozero 3's for this year (literally some of the first versions in that size and bmw spec). The conti's have had a number of updates since that

Not my experience at all.

Fitted to a C Class Merc when I visit Germany and the Alps over the winter. I often see daytime temps of 17-20 but must have the winters fitted as when you go up into the Alps, the temperatures plummet.

Even at 17 to 20 degrees, I really couldn’t say that winters felt that much different under normal driving. Even pressing on the gave good grip and feel.

I’m sure it would be different on a track.

FYI this was on Pirelli Sottozero 3’s but I certainly preferred the previously fitted Nokian WR D4’s as they gave better traction in snow/ice.

Good luck.

[Ninja59]

A900ss said:

Not my experience at all.

Fitted to a C Class Merc when I visit Germany and the Alps over the winter. I often see daytime temps of 17-20 but must have the winters fitted as when you go up into the Alps, the temperatures plummet.

Even at 17 to 20 degrees, I really couldn’t say that winters felt that much different under normal driving. Even pressing on the gave good grip and feel.

I’m sure it would be different on a track.

FYI this was on Pirelli Sottozero 3’s but I certainly preferred the previously fitted Nokian WR D4’s as they gave better traction in snow/ice.

Good luck.

Interesting, as I have not driven on my Sottozeros yet.

I was just going over my thoughts on my 3 previous sets used from anything around 15 degrees positive to -8/-9 degrees negative, all exhibited a degree of disconnection in the steering that a Summer did not have, the temperature change when positive just making it even more obvious, there equally could be a degree of wear in this as well.

[A900ss]

Ninja59 said:

Interesting, as I have not driven on my Sottozeros yet.

I was just going over my thoughts on my 3 previous sets used from anything around 15 degrees positive to -8/-9 degrees negative, all exhibited a degree of disconnection in the steering that a Summer did not have, the temperature change when positive just making it even more obvious, there equally could be a degree of wear in this as well.

Or you have a more focused driving car? It’s a regular C220d rather than a C63

[havoc]

Ninja59 said:

I was just going over my thoughts on my 3 previous sets used from anything around 15 degrees positive to -8/-9 degrees negative, all exhibited a degree of disconnection in the steering that a Summer did not have, the temperature change when positive just making it even more obvious, there equally could be a degree of wear in this as well.

Most winter tyres have softer sidewalls than summer tyres...there's a deliberate construction difference.

Also a lot of 'approved' fitments run an inch smaller alloy for winter wheels, to give that much more 'give' in the sidewall (can be useful for traction, definitely useful for bump absorption if you hit a hidden pothole).

Plus (and possibly most importantly) the tread-patterns for Winters veer away from the current 'summer' trend for 'solid centre ribs', which improve steering response.


So there will be that little bit more 'delay' in the steering...but that's like-for-like - mfrs have been ramping-up steering response for years, both as a 'sporty' cue and to compensate for the loss of steering feel. Compare e.g. a 2017 car on winters with it's 1997 equivalent on 1997-era summer tyres, and I'll bet the 2017 car still feels sharper to steer.

[Baldchap]

I recall the motoring organisations recommending that if you use one set all year, you use winters as they're less bad in summer than summers are in winter.

[ecsrobin]

I’m on the south coast so I don’t need winter tyres

[havoc]

That's a lovely chart but that's the mean average...doesn't mean a lot as very few people drive on average days / average times.

Typically 7-8am (i.e. commuting time) is close to the minimum temp for a winter day.

And unless you can afford to stay in your house for the 10-20 days in a typical winter (depending on where in England you live - Wales and Scotland are worse, as is NI) where it's snowy or properly icy, then it's even more useless. Like not buying anything more than 3P insurance for an expensive car, as your history is only having an accident once every 5 years so you're unlikely to have one this year.

[ecsrobin]

havoc said:

That's a lovely chart but that's the mean average...doesn't mean a lot as very few people drive on average days / average times.

Typically 7-8am (i.e. commuting time) is close to the minimum temp for a winter day.

And unless you can afford to stay in your house for the 10-20 days in a typical winter (depending on where in England you live - Wales and Scotland are worse, as is NI) where it's snowy or properly icy, then it's even more useless. Like not buying anything more than 3P insurance for an expensive car, as your history is only having an accident once every 5 years so you're unlikely to have one this year.

Plenty of info for people to read up on https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climat...

I didn’t have any issues the last 2 winters with PS3’s although the weather was probably above average as I remember wearing shorts through December I also only had a frozen screen twice if memory serves me right.

Like I said originally, in the south I don’t need them.

[Curator]

Baldchap said:

I recall the motoring organisations recommending that if you use one set all year, you use winters as they're less bad in summer than summers are in winter.

This

[havoc]

ecsrobin said:

Like I said originally, in the south I don’t need them.

Whereas my parents in Kent had 2x significant loads of snow...

[Pica-Pica]

havoc said:

That's a lovely chart but that's the mean average...doesn't mean a lot as very few people drive on average days / average times.

Typically 7-8am (i.e. commuting time) is close to the minimum temp for a winter day.

And unless you can afford to stay in your house for the 10-20 days in a typical winter (depending on where in England you live - Wales and Scotland are worse, as is NI) where it's snowy or properly icy, then it's even more useless. Like not buying anything more than 3P insurance for an expensive car, as your history is only having an accident once every 5 years so you're unlikely to have one this year.

Coastal Wales is better than central England!