Divorced dads - how do you handle parental alienation?

[Ken Figenus]

Need to know what to say to a mate (genuinely, I'm ok Jack on the marital front...) who has just been told via a solicitor letter that he is not getting any further direct access to his two girls. This a few weeks after the divorce papers have been issued. It follows him being a bit blunt with one of his daughters when she, yet again, said she didn't want him to be her dad anymore, and wished he was dead. That's all fuelled by poison from home rather than any action or inaction or behaviour of his (she repeats words and terms that no 10 year old would ever know/understand). Sadly, rather than isolating, protecting and detaching the kids from the adults' marital issue the kids have been involved and levered by the mother... He's a lovely solid very decent lad that has provided everything but now has nothing.

I have no experience on these matters but he will be in a bad way tonight, so any real life experiences to this sadly common issue will be gratefully received.

[GOG440]

The only thing he can do is be nice and pleasant to his daughter, tell her that he will be there when he is wanted and leave her some space, she will soon realise that her dad isnt the tt he has been made out to be by her mum and will want contact again. This exact thing happened to my brother in law a good few years ago, his sons are embarrassed how they acted at the time and are really close to their dad now

[Christmassss]

How blunt was he to warrant contact being stopped?

Does the solicitor letter refer to alternative arrangements, court dates, mediation etc?

Whilst i don't know the lad, being 'blunt' to a 10 year old girl who is losing her family is bang out of order. Kids are mean, they say stuff. they lash out. If it results in your mate lashing out in response, then potentially being out of the 'situation' will be good for him. All IMO of course.

For context, my 7 year old told me some stuff, including saying he wishes his step dad was his real dad. He was upset about something or another and he lashed out, its just what they do. Having a go at him was the last thing on my mind!

[Ken Figenus]

I wouldn't defend him if he was out of order mate - he called her an 'absolute idiot'. Which he regrets but I feel it's a bit mild for someone yet again wishing you dead, and after the months of intense and unfair pressure he is under...

[Christmassss]

Ken Figenus said:

I wouldn't defend him if he was out of order mate - he called her an 'absolute idiot'. Which he regrets but I feel it's a bit mild for someone yet again wishing you dead, and after the months of intense and unfair pressure he is under...

Its his daughter who, no matter what he is feeling, should be getting his full and loving attention. She is 10. Her world is falling apart and now her dad is calling her names. As a 10 year old she is looking for someone to blame for her world falling apart, shes picked her dad, he needs to be a man and handle it. Not lash out.

If that is all that he did, then the solicitor letter he has received is worthless.

If his Ex is with holding contact for that reason alone, the he should take action.

1.Speak to a mediator and arrange a session.
2.If she refuses to attend or it doesn't resolve it then apply to the court - as it involves with holding contact he'll be able to have an emergency hearing
3. IF that is the sole reason she has with held contact, it will be immediately reinstated on an interim order and his EX will be giving a dressing down about with holding contact for no valid reason. CAFCASS will get involved also mind.
4. A further court date will be set to finalise a proper court order

[WinstonWolf]

Ken Figenus said:

Need to know what to say to a mate (genuinely, I'm ok Jack on the marital front...) who has just been told via a solicitor letter that he is not getting any further direct access to his two girls. This a few weeks after the divorce papers have been issued. It follows him being a bit blunt with one of his daughters when she, yet again, said she didn't want him to be her dad anymore, and wished he was dead. That's all fuelled by poison from home rather than any action or inaction or behaviour of his (she repeats words and terms that no 10 year old would ever know/understand). Sadly, rather than isolating, protecting and detaching the kids from the adults' marital issue the kids have been involved and levered by the mother... He's a lovely solid very decent lad that has provided everything but now has nothing.

I have no experience on these matters but he will be in a bad way tonight, so any real life experiences to this sadly common issue will be gratefully received.

He needs to learn to let it all go over his head, I think he owes his daughter an apology (a personal one, not via his mum)

In his situation I'd buy a nice card, rough out what he wants to say, sleep on it for a few days, re-read it and if it's good write it in the card and ask her to read it. Has to be delivered in person in a calm setting.

She'll probably rip it up in his face but hopefully remember the words.

Divorced dads need a pair of big boy pants.

[hyphen]

Ken Figenus said:

who has just been told via a solicitor letter that he is not getting any further direct access to his two girls.

Whats that all about then eh?

A judge can rule, the mum can get social services in who can get an order.

But a solicitor can't send a random letter dictating?

[Marcellus]

When similar happened to me/us we looked into it and even if the other side aren't being deliberately poisonous toward him the child will feel that they are doing the right thing for the parent they're living with to cast him out.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of that the father said it's said as is what the ex-wife has now done and that's a matter of record so basically the OPs friend is in the mire.

I think he has two options;
1) contest it, probably lose and lose contact with his kids for a very very long time, possibly ever.
2) accept it, not laying over and accepting it like a doormat, but make sure that his children know that he's there for them and always will be, play the long game, they're 10 now play it right and by the time they're in their teens he'll have quite a good relationship and in their twenties a really good one.

The same happened to me when my children were a similar age but possibly less warranted reason than the OPs, now my eldest daughter is now 26 and we're helping her plan her wedding!

Play the long game!

[Ken Figenus]

OMG Marcellus - that is heartbreaking and so utterly and totally unfair.

I also saw it with another mate - yep another salt of the earth solid nice type again - and what you say is true. His daughter, now in her twenties, realises she was misled and poisoned against him. But that's a very painful 10 years and a big loss in steering your kid as they grow up. Very depressing stuff

[Marcellus]

Ken Figenus said:

OMG Marcellus - that is heartbreaking and so utterly and totally unfair.

I also saw it with another mate - yep another salt of the earth solid nice type again - and what you say is true. His daughter, now in her twenties, realises she was misled and poisoned against him. But that's a very painful 10 years and a big loss in steering your kid as they grow up. Very depressing stuff

At the time yes it was, but as they say st happens, time moves on and now things are OK.

Had I put up a fight and forced them to come to see me against their and my ex-wifes will I think it unlikely that would be OK.

[Kaelic]

from personal experience, and using hindsight which is a great thing......

Dont waste money with solicitors and courts. Contact orders are not worth the paper they are written on. Even when the parent with residence admits to breaking a contact order they do nothing... not even a reprimand!

If kids wont see him then dont try to force the matter it will end badly as he will play into his ex's hands

send birthday/xmas/treats even if they refuse to see him, do not say a negative word in any correspondence as it will be used against him

make sure extended family try their best to keep in touch, even if he has to push them to do this, get them messaging the kids with nice stuff and never mention the situation.

Make it crystal clear to family and friends that his children are not in trouble with him he loves and misses them and they are welcome in his life at any point, anytime anywhere etc...

This is what will probably happen.....

Kids get to 16 have a bit of freedom, start to have relationships, look at jobs/college/uni etc... want to know more about things. You will end up getting a call or message from the kid wanting to speak to you. You spend an age building a very "go gently" relationship with your kid etc.... Then you get told all the BS that has been said about you and you have to stand there and find out about the monster you really are and how poisoned your childs mind has been. How you were the devil incarnate etc... And the child will stand there and ask you why you are so different from that image they have had in their head.
Then whilst taking your (in my case) daughters boyfriend out for a drive whilst he is learning, he tells you that your daughter wont discuss you with their mother or even mention you for fear of being made homeless... so her whole relationship with you is a secret and that she is terrified by her mother and gran so much she pretends she is out with friends when out with you. Her boyfriend then decides to tell you how much of a monster you have been protrayed by others and the extent of the lies.

Now 2 things have given me so much pleasure these last couple of years while I have had secret contact with my daughter......

1) Seeing her and having a loving relationship with her .... its not perfect but its pretty damn good.
2) Knowing that she see's me for being me and not what she was told. And if she ever wants proof of my side of things I have a whole Gmail account for her to access with all correspondence and stuff logged.


In closing as others have said.... play the long game.... its probably the most painful thing your friend can do and I can sympathise but the short game will only make things much much worse for him and the kids and will cost much more and he may even be treated to a "night in the cells" if he puts one foot wrong.

Good luck to him in any case.

[Ken Figenus]

Marcellus said:

At the time yes it was, but as they say st happens, time moves on and now things are OK.

Had I put up a fight and forced them to come to see me against their and my ex-wifes will I think it unlikely that would be OK.

What about grandparents mate - was your side of the family all persona non grata once the die was cast and the narrative set?

[Ken Figenus]

I'll leave this here guys as there is a clear consensus already and the response have been very enlightening. If its tough on me as a bystander i just can't imagine what it is like on him.

I have no interest in the man/wife relationship as that is between them as adults and they reap what they sow in creating their marital dynamic of many years. But he has done NOTHING to deserve this massive purposeful destruction to his relationship with his adored kids, and it SO damages them too as collateral. So sad - its really like a form of child abuse.

Thanks again.

[Marcellus]

Ken Figenus said:

What about grandparents mate - was your side of the family all persona non grata once the die was cast and the narrative set?

Grandparents, Uncles and Aunts were all fine and saw them it was just me they didn't want to see!

[Welshbeef]

I’ve a mate who went through a savage divorce (rinsed), kicked out of the martial house 2 weeks after the wedding day and she then told him she was pregnancy (with his child but he’d never get to see it or be part of the babies life).

I remember he might it happened well - a call on a Monday morning 1:30am ish he was sat in his car 100 odd miles away with everything he possessed in one suitcase.
He stayed with us for months - our tactic was to try to keep everything normal to try to get him to try to forget about the st situation he had found himself in.

A decade later after a brutal divorce he has a new life but is a massive part of his boys life which is great to see. However he was in a really dark place for a very long time (years), he went from for as a fiddle to heavy drinker and fat, now back to his previous shape.


There are some very nasty cruel people in this world - I think just being polite happy pleasant that’s all you can do and things should turn out ok.

[theboss]

Christmassss said:

Its his daughter who, no matter what he is feeling, should be getting his full and loving attention. She is 10. Her world is falling apart and now her dad is calling her names. As a 10 year old she is looking for someone to blame for her world falling apart, shes picked her dad, he needs to be a man and handle it. Not lash out.

If that is all that he did, then the solicitor letter he has received is worthless.

If his Ex is with holding contact for that reason alone, the he should take action.

1.Speak to a mediator and arrange a session.
2.If she refuses to attend or it doesn't resolve it then apply to the court - as it involves with holding contact he'll be able to have an emergency hearing
3. IF that is the sole reason she has with held contact, it will be immediately reinstated on an interim order and his EX will be giving a dressing down about with holding contact for no valid reason. CAFCASS will get involved also mind.
4. A further court date will be set to finalise a proper court order

I wouldn’t hesitate to give my similar aged daughter a bit of a verbal dressing down in the same circumstances. She might be going through a spot of bother with the parental separation, as my daughter has, and as I did too at a similar age, but that doesn’t really give her any excuse to wish her father dead.

I totally agree with the court route. It may prove to be ineffectual and we’ve all heard some of the worst case outcomes, but sometimes showing the ex you really do mean business can induce a more reasonable change of mindset. When I sought a children’s arrangements order 2 years ago my ex went from cocksure “see you in court” to begging me to halt the proceedings just before the first hearing. The cost alone may bring her back down with a bump slightly. The OPs friend will need reasonably deep pockets and some determination though.

[Ken Figenus]

Kaelic - he's been forwarded your post - many thanks for taking the time, et al.

[Cold]

hyphen said:

Whats that all about then eh?

A judge can rule, the mum can get social services in who can get an order.

But a solicitor can't send a random letter dictating?

Exactly. This chap needs his own solicitor to issue proceedings. 50:50 shared care as a starting point.

[Marcellus]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That is as may be, but would the OPs friend rather have an enforced relationship with the begrudging child for the next 5/6 years or have a relationship with an evolving adult, their children and even great grand children for the next 50/60 years?

[hyphen]

Marcellus said:

That is as may be, but would the OPs friend rather have an enforced relationship with the begrudging child for the next 5/6 years or have a relationship with an evolving adult, their children and even great grand children for the next 50/60 years?

Kids are kids Surely a 10 year old can be bribed with presents, icecream and what not.