Tuscan Racer - Alluded to in Sprint
Discussion
Got it. Read it. Appreciated the option to include the photo of the Sebring girls twice .... 
However, the comment that got me most excited was at the end of the EVO artible and discussion of the factory objective to have a "convertible, coupe / targa and race version" of both the T350 and Tuscan platforms.
As we all know, the Tuscan Convertible has clearly seen plenty of air time in it's development programme. However, a Tuscan "race version" ...
What have I missed here ?
Could this be realised within 2005 ???
However, the comment that got me most excited was at the end of the EVO artible and discussion of the factory objective to have a "convertible, coupe / targa and race version" of both the T350 and Tuscan platforms.
As we all know, the Tuscan Convertible has clearly seen plenty of air time in it's development programme. However, a Tuscan "race version" ...
What have I missed here ?
Could this be realised within 2005 ???
The road-going T440, as owned by Lawrence Tomlinson of LNT Magic, is absolutely stunning. It's a practical race car for the road. The interior has the chassis rails exposed, although covered in carbon fibre. There are acres of space, lots of lovely sounds and, I am assured, brilliant handling and road-holding. It should be, in this 4.5 Cerbera-bereft world, the ultimate TVR.
I don't know when or even if they are going to produce it. All I do know is that they must.
I felt cowed in it. The realisation that I would never, ever be able to stretch it, or get anywhere near realising its full potential was a bit of a downer. Mind you, there are few who would.
LNT's successes in BritGT and LMES must be carving out a market for it. And one willing to pay a premium.
I don't know when or even if they are going to produce it. All I do know is that they must.
I felt cowed in it. The realisation that I would never, ever be able to stretch it, or get anywhere near realising its full potential was a bit of a downer. Mind you, there are few who would.
LNT's successes in BritGT and LMES must be carving out a market for it. And one willing to pay a premium.
Derek Smith said:
The road-going T440, as owned by Lawrence Tomlinson of LNT Magic, is absolutely stunning. It's a practical race car for the road. The interior has the chassis rails exposed, although covered in carbon fibre. There are acres of space, lots of lovely sounds and, I am assured, brilliant handling and road-holding. It should be, in this 4.5 Cerbera-bereft world, the ultimate TVR.
I don't know when or even if they are going to produce it. All I do know is that they must.
I felt cowed in it. The realisation that I would never, ever be able to stretch it, or get anywhere near realising its full potential was a bit of a downer. Mind you, there are few who would.
LNT's successes in BritGT and LMES must be carving out a market for it. And one willing to pay a premium.
But isn't the fact that TVR haven't put it into full production yet one of main reasons for its apparent exclusion from LM this year
. Possibily along with the fact the factory has, as you say, taken a step back from motorsport 
. Any news of a V8 version too would be nice
. Harry
At one stage last year we were told that we could order race versions of T350, Sagaris or Tuscan. 2005 was going to be the best series ever.
Then TVR went quiet on us and ultimately withdrew completely from racing.
Unfortunately TVR currently have no association with motorsport. Those TVRs which do race (ranging from historic cars through Tuscan Challenge cars up to the LNT and Racesport GT cars) are all privately owned and run. TVR don't even do the engine work on the GT cars as far as I know.
Personally I think it is very sad. It is clearly a good strategy to concentrate efforts getting the road cars right - but how a brand like TVR can turn its back on motorsport entirely, I just don't know. They will get by for the time being benefitting from association with the privateer teams, whilst people don't understand the distinction. But thereafter where does that leave them...?
Then TVR went quiet on us and ultimately withdrew completely from racing.
Unfortunately TVR currently have no association with motorsport. Those TVRs which do race (ranging from historic cars through Tuscan Challenge cars up to the LNT and Racesport GT cars) are all privately owned and run. TVR don't even do the engine work on the GT cars as far as I know.
Personally I think it is very sad. It is clearly a good strategy to concentrate efforts getting the road cars right - but how a brand like TVR can turn its back on motorsport entirely, I just don't know. They will get by for the time being benefitting from association with the privateer teams, whilst people don't understand the distinction. But thereafter where does that leave them...?
griff2be said:
...... - but how a brand like TVR can turn its back on motorsport entirely, I just don't know. They will get by for the time being benefitting from association with the privateer teams, whilst people don't understand the distinction. But thereafter where does that leave them...?
Sadly I fear up the brown river without a propulsion stick within 5 years IMHO
. Unless they want to concentrate on hairdresser mobiles that is. As I can't for the love of me think of one premium sports car that doesn't participate in motorsport
. Harry
on LNT's website they say they are working with the factory to make the racer better whats happened to that??. i know they have company called knight racing services (or something like that) build their engines now though.
i do hope they take their finger out and build the typhon and T400 if only to see LNT take it to the porsches fairly on the international scene, if they can win races with a restrictor cut and weight penalties it looks promising.
>> Edited by ccharlie6 on Saturday 7th May 22:27
i do hope they take their finger out and build the typhon and T400 if only to see LNT take it to the porsches fairly on the international scene, if they can win races with a restrictor cut and weight penalties it looks promising.
>> Edited by ccharlie6 on Saturday 7th May 22:27
HarryW said:
But thereafter where does that leave them...?
Sadly I fear up the brown river without a propulsion stick within 5 years IMHO
Harry
Especially now that Marcos are going to produce a V8 sports car that'll most probably (from the figures) out pace TVR's current offerings whilst offering bombproof mechanicals and prodrive set up suspension.
Worrying, isnt it...
The current set-up with the Factory and racing is producing the goods, so why the criticisms? LNT Magic have already wiped the floor with Porsche and Ferrari. Just look at the Donnington BritGT results and the LMES at Spa.
It seems a pretty good idea to me to leave those who know about racing to race and those whose job it is to build cars to do just that. The fact that Knight Racing Services prepare the engines shows a committment to excellence. And what about the driver line-up, and Mugglestone and Rocket? LNT is becoming the team to beat.
Team LNT Magic is just what TVR want, a professional racing team with the desire and the ability to win, without interference from outsiders.
The reason LNT were ignored by the Le Mans organisers cannot be due to the lack of production T440Rs as that would have eliminated Peninsular as well. It cannot be because LNT are a factory team either. Firstly, they are not, and secondly, we could all name factory supported teams that have been included! It makes you want to use the F word.
This has the potential for being the greatest racing season ever for TVR. Er, no, sorry, wrong again. With just one BritGT and one LMES completed, this is already the greatest racing season ever for TVR.
Why the long faces? The Tuscan Challenge is dead. Howard went when he he didn't manage to get a full entry, and with a certain dignity. So did the TC when grids fell away. But now we have racing which is every bit as competative, exciting and still has TVRs winning.
I'm not knocking the Tuscan Challenge, but it was a sport for amateurs. TVRs are now up with the big boys and are beating them. This is the best of times.
Don't whinge, enjoy.
Derek
It seems a pretty good idea to me to leave those who know about racing to race and those whose job it is to build cars to do just that. The fact that Knight Racing Services prepare the engines shows a committment to excellence. And what about the driver line-up, and Mugglestone and Rocket? LNT is becoming the team to beat.
Team LNT Magic is just what TVR want, a professional racing team with the desire and the ability to win, without interference from outsiders.
The reason LNT were ignored by the Le Mans organisers cannot be due to the lack of production T440Rs as that would have eliminated Peninsular as well. It cannot be because LNT are a factory team either. Firstly, they are not, and secondly, we could all name factory supported teams that have been included! It makes you want to use the F word.
This has the potential for being the greatest racing season ever for TVR. Er, no, sorry, wrong again. With just one BritGT and one LMES completed, this is already the greatest racing season ever for TVR.
Why the long faces? The Tuscan Challenge is dead. Howard went when he he didn't manage to get a full entry, and with a certain dignity. So did the TC when grids fell away. But now we have racing which is every bit as competative, exciting and still has TVRs winning.
I'm not knocking the Tuscan Challenge, but it was a sport for amateurs. TVRs are now up with the big boys and are beating them. This is the best of times.
Don't whinge, enjoy.
Derek
BCA said:
Especially now that Marcos are going to produce a V8 sports car that'll most probably (from the figures) out pace TVR's current offerings whilst offering bombproof mechanicals and prodrive set up suspension.
Worrying, isnt it...
Not really. TVR's straight six is a superb bit of bespoke engineering that is here now. Marcos' offering is a bolt-on goody that might, well, might do anything except outpower TVR.
There are trade-offs in going for extra cylinders. The Ferrari GP team was in the wilderness for years with their pig-headed loyalty to V12s when a customer V8 was wiping the floor with them. They needed an edge over the much superior chassis engineering of the underfunded British teams so went ahead and put an albatross behind the driver. Bewildering!
TVR have an engine in the Sp 6 that is technologically superior to the one that Marcos has outsourced. If the Marcos is intended to be a GT, then I can see the point in going for a comparatively lazy V8. But a competitor to the Sagaris? Or T350? I have strong doubts.
Golden Boy said:This is my take on events.
It's not unusual for manufacturers to take a break from factory supported or run motorsport activity to concentrate on more pressing matters, I'm sure it won't be long before we see the TVR factory back in action on the race track...
I don't believe those that say that TVR has turned its back on racing as I think there's a good relationship between LNT and the factory.
I think the motorsport budget has been ploughed into quality control - something which is needed to boost sales. That sales boost will provide the funds to return to racing as a marque. I hope this includes the revival of a British race series, but I doubt that Tuscan racers wil be a part of that unfortunately.
I see the T400 as the coupe and the Typhon as the road-racer element of the Tuscan model line-up. It's just that, like the Tuscan convertible, the Typhon hasn't been produced yet. I suspect that the convertible will be the next out of the factory. Personally, I'm not convinced that the Typhon will see the light of day but it does form part of the line-up at the moment.
My reading of Le Mans is that Synergy-Chamberlain got an entry based on their performance last year (finishing the race with two TVRs) but they are running an LMP2 this year. Racesport/Peninsular got an entry because they run a TVR and completed most of the LMES races last year. LNT didn't get an entry because they already had a TVR, they didn't finish Sebring, they only entered a couple of LMES races at the end of the season, there was already a TVR invited and the ACO are a contrary bunch.
I would be very surprised if LNT did not get an entry next year if they can come close to the Spa performance over the rest of the season.
With only on car left on the reserve list, they might even be lucky enough to get a late call-up this year.
Golden Boy said:
It's not unusual for manufacturers to take a break from factory supported or run motorsport activity to concentrate on more pressing matters, I'm sure it won't be long before we see the TVR factory back in action on the race track...
IMHO the Factory team often isnt actully a factory team just a factory funded team.....
who do you think builds the BTCC racer's its not GM or Peugot its people like prodrive, same with rallying etc....
so the fact there is a (semi) factory team isnt always a bad idea... pity for the folks in the tvr factory team but hadnt most of them already gone to places like rolcentre anyway ?
G
There is also another angle on this.
Speaking to Neill Anderson a few years ago at Loughborough University when he did his excellent lecture on the Speed 12 development, he pointed out that to insure a race car, for which you (as a company) are the original supplier/manufacturer for many of the components, can be tricky. Insurers can take the view that you could use a crash as an opportunity to print money!
Speaking to Neill Anderson a few years ago at Loughborough University when he did his excellent lecture on the Speed 12 development, he pointed out that to insure a race car, for which you (as a company) are the original supplier/manufacturer for many of the components, can be tricky. Insurers can take the view that you could use a crash as an opportunity to print money!
Derek Smith said:
Especially now that Marcos are going to produce a V8 sports car that'll most probably (from the figures) out pace TVR's current offerings whilst offering bombproof mechanicals and prodrive set up suspension.
Worrying, isnt it...
Not really. TVR's straight six is a superb bit of bespoke engineering that is here now. Marcos' offering is a bolt-on goody that might, well, might do anything except outpower TVR.
TVR have an engine in the Sp 6 that is technologically superior to the one that Marcos has outsourced. If the Marcos is intended to be a GT, then I can see the point in going for a comparatively lazy V8. But a competitor to the Sagaris? Or T350? I have strong doubts.
Not really. TVR's straight six has been a nightmare in the past that will take a long time to recover its reputation. Marcos's offering is a bullet proof goody that will outpower TVR. I think you'll find the figures for the engine (400/450bhp depending on the model) to be *pessimistic* whereas it is usually the reverse with TVR figures.
Whether the S6 is technically superior than the LS (1?/2? I get confused) is not for me to comment on, because I know very very little about either engines technical spec. All I know is that the figures *cannot* lie when proven elsewhere on dynos/rollers and that the LS is pretty much guaranteed to see big big mileages with far less maintainance than the S6.
I must admit, I see the Marcos' weight figure to be a little optimistic, even TVR struggle to reach 1100kilos these days with lighter units than those powering the Marcos. I still see no reason why it cant out pace the TVR opposition.
Forget any reasoning about the amount of cylinders, the Marcos will make 400+bhp no matter what the spec... The S6 is claimed around that at best.
GT or not, TVR should be concerned.
My observation is that TVR as a company are no longer directly involved in motorsport. By that I don’t mean it is a shame that they no longer run their own cars or series. Most manufacturers don’t do this (aside from the Porsche Carrera Cup, the Ferrari Challenge, a Maserati series, the Renault and Peugeot single make series, Caterham’s racing programme (they have just launched a new race car), Ginetta’s series and even Lee Noble enters races…).
My concern is whether TVR have the desire or capability to design, build and develop race cars. The race department no longer exists. The factory no longer has the benefit of the various race programmes to develop new ideas and test components for road cars.
A huge problem with the concept for the race series to replace the Tuscan Challenge was that TVR would not (could not?) design and build them as race cars. All they would do was offer partially complete road cars and it was up to us to develop them into race cars.
As I recall, Eclipse abandoned TVR in favour of Mosler, because TVR repeatedly failed to build any road cars to remove the restrictions which made them uncompetitive.
As regards your comment “Team LNT Magic is just what TVR want, a professional racing team with the desire and the ability to win, without interference from outsiders” – it seems that LNT are primarily free from any interference from the manufacturer – TVR. LNT are delivering the goods – but I suspect that this has very little to do with TVR and everything to do with the way Laurence and his team go about things without TVR – now including engine build. I don’t think TVR give a stuff about racing at the moment.
As for the best year ever for TVR motor sport…. the LNT cars are excluded from Le Mans and we have seen the decline of an iconic single make series that brought a great deal of entertainment to many. It doesn’t sound like TVR Motorsport is in rude health to me. Rather the last hangover of the Wheeler era is enjoying a swansong thanks to a private individual with deep pockets, drive and enthusiasm.
My concern is whether TVR have the desire or capability to design, build and develop race cars. The race department no longer exists. The factory no longer has the benefit of the various race programmes to develop new ideas and test components for road cars.
A huge problem with the concept for the race series to replace the Tuscan Challenge was that TVR would not (could not?) design and build them as race cars. All they would do was offer partially complete road cars and it was up to us to develop them into race cars.
As I recall, Eclipse abandoned TVR in favour of Mosler, because TVR repeatedly failed to build any road cars to remove the restrictions which made them uncompetitive.
As regards your comment “Team LNT Magic is just what TVR want, a professional racing team with the desire and the ability to win, without interference from outsiders” – it seems that LNT are primarily free from any interference from the manufacturer – TVR. LNT are delivering the goods – but I suspect that this has very little to do with TVR and everything to do with the way Laurence and his team go about things without TVR – now including engine build. I don’t think TVR give a stuff about racing at the moment.
As for the best year ever for TVR motor sport…. the LNT cars are excluded from Le Mans and we have seen the decline of an iconic single make series that brought a great deal of entertainment to many. It doesn’t sound like TVR Motorsport is in rude health to me. Rather the last hangover of the Wheeler era is enjoying a swansong thanks to a private individual with deep pockets, drive and enthusiasm.
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