Is the 4.2 really that slow ? - Update
Discussion
I posted a message in mid-April complaining that my Cerbera felt sluggish and not even close to my old XJR. A number of the replies to the thread felt that there must be something wrong with the car and a few others gave some useful advice on driving style with the Cerbera as compared to the Jaguar. Well, the car went to Austec for an ECU remap and rolling road session and all became clear. Both cat's were buggered and one had wedged itself up the pipe whilst the other was rattling away in the casing. Not really going to help the car to breathe. Austec replaced the exhaust system with a full s/s straight through one and then put the car on the rolling road. It was generating 326BHP and when I test drove it felt much livelier and a good deal nosier. It was then put back on the rolling road and the ECU remapping completed. The result of this: An increase of BHP to 352 but, more importantly, the pick up was smooth and there was none of the lumpy, jerky ride below 3,000rpm. However, there was still a slight hesitation initially and Austec diagnosed that the injectors needed cleaning and refitting. No time for this at the time so the car was delivered back to them a few days later and not only had the injectors done but also had new sports suspension all round and had new discs/pads put on as well given the increase in power. Net result - a fairly big dent in my wallet but my Cerbera is transformed. It is smooth at low speeds and picks up instantly. There is no tail off in power at all right up to the limit and it sounds absolutely gorgeous with the sports exhaust. Allied to this I have superb, progressive brakes and a great improvement in the handling with the new adjustable sports suspension.
So, would I recommend nearly £900 for an ECU remap and rolling road session ? In my case, absolutely. I've seen a 26BHP increase and a 44 improvement in my torque but, more importantly, the car is smooth in traffic now and is just a joy to drive at any speed. A lot of money, yes. But, if you can drive away with a smile on your face I think that it is money well spent.
So, would I recommend nearly £900 for an ECU remap and rolling road session ? In my case, absolutely. I've seen a 26BHP increase and a 44 improvement in my torque but, more importantly, the car is smooth in traffic now and is just a joy to drive at any speed. A lot of money, yes. But, if you can drive away with a smile on your face I think that it is money well spent.
With the blocked Cats you must have been putting out a fair bit less than 300bhp. Therefore simply replacing the Cats will have seen a massive improvement hence the 326bhp thereafter. The 900 pounds will have added the other 26bhp (up to where the majority of 4.2's are as std) and improved the driveability; it's a lot of money, but if you're happy with the results then that is all that matters. The fact that you have had a shiny new exhaust system, suspension and brakes as well means you have way too much money
....well did have have.. 
. At least you can jump in and enjoy it to the max now...
....well did have have.. . At least you can jump in and enjoy it to the max now...I have found this to be the problem with mine too..
I have made a couple of straight through pipes out of my old cats with some perforated tube and some wadding round the outside to give a 'little' silencing. Sounds great but not too loud and goes mch better.
>> Edited by Katanarog on Sunday 8th May 11:14
I have made a couple of straight through pipes out of my old cats with some perforated tube and some wadding round the outside to give a 'little' silencing. Sounds great but not too loud and goes mch better.
>> Edited by Katanarog on Sunday 8th May 11:14
Glad to hear you got it sorted, did they do a pre work run? what was it putting out?
Im decatting and new rear box on my 4.5 next Friday, along with a 6000 mile service, so hoping mine comes back smooth after that. Once Im happy with the everything, might chip it too, in fact will give APM a call tomorrow and see if they can do it Friday and for what price. Anyone know if APM remap/chip, or is do I need to get from Joospeed or something?
Also, what was the cost of just the full sports system? I've been considering it, but many saying just decat and standard rear box on a 4.5, sounds the best!?!
Im decatting and new rear box on my 4.5 next Friday, along with a 6000 mile service, so hoping mine comes back smooth after that. Once Im happy with the everything, might chip it too, in fact will give APM a call tomorrow and see if they can do it Friday and for what price. Anyone know if APM remap/chip, or is do I need to get from Joospeed or something?
Also, what was the cost of just the full sports system? I've been considering it, but many saying just decat and standard rear box on a 4.5, sounds the best!?!
Vinny, I think Andy at APM just does the Red Rose chip, I had one on my 4.5 and it did seem to smooth out the hesitation below 3000rpm, but it didn't add any extra power. I think they are around 75 pounds.
If it's a performance upgrade that you want, then your best bet would be to book it into Joospeed to get the Emerald remap done, this should give you a noticeable increase in power over and above what you currently have. Mine now makes 390bhp v 339bhp as standard.
De-cat pipes are about 105 pounds from Joospeed. May as well get it booked in and have it all done....
If it's a performance upgrade that you want, then your best bet would be to book it into Joospeed to get the Emerald remap done, this should give you a noticeable increase in power over and above what you currently have. Mine now makes 390bhp v 339bhp as standard.
De-cat pipes are about 105 pounds from Joospeed. May as well get it booked in and have it all done....
No its a replacement aftermarket ECU, produced by a company called Emerald. It'll allow you full access to all the engine parameters and easy modification to the fuelling and spark maps in the future which'll cover any future mods. Austec offer a re-mapping service of your existing ECU, both options cost about the same, pay your money and take your choice. Although the Austec route doesn't leave you the option of further modification.
www.emeraldm3d.com/em_ab_em.html
Matt
www.emeraldm3d.com/em_ab_em.html
Matt
At the flywheel before the remap work I was getting 279BHP. After the remap I got 305. The suspension is a fully adjustable AVO system. One hours labour charge and then £160 a corner for spring & absorber. The discs and pads were standard TVR replacements albeit the new discs are ventilated unlike my original ones. The S/S exhaust system was ACT (I believe Austec are a main agent for them). The system ran from the manifold back and replaced the cats with straight through pipes. Price for the total system was £620. Given my old 4.2 is a 1996 and has 45,000 on the clock I am more than pleased with the results and it's the improved driveability rather than the outright power which I have been most pleased about.
So, where do I go from here ? How do I extract even more power from the car ?
So, where do I go from here ? How do I extract even more power from the car ?
Sounds like your car is well and truely sorted now....
.
I am surprised that they remapped it straight after it had produced only 279bhp (fly) on the rollers, I thought they they would have tried to find the fault first? So I take it that after mapping the car and getting 305bhp they started to fault find to find where the hiding ponies were? and that's when the blocked exhaust reared it's head? The exhaust being blocked cost you 47bhp
Either way, at least it's all sorted now so you can start to realise what you have been missing....
350matt is spot on with his views on the remap's.
. I am surprised that they remapped it straight after it had produced only 279bhp (fly) on the rollers, I thought they they would have tried to find the fault first? So I take it that after mapping the car and getting 305bhp they started to fault find to find where the hiding ponies were? and that's when the blocked exhaust reared it's head? The exhaust being blocked cost you 47bhp
Either way, at least it's all sorted now so you can start to realise what you have been missing.... 350matt is spot on with his views on the remap's.
Austec will rework their software as many times as you like, so I can't quite see what you are saying Cyclone1. Have we got crossed wires, or am I missing something?
It's just that you have to go to Austec to get it done. So yes it really is just straight dyno time, as with any other system.
Really it's up to you whether this is what you want or not. Most people are perfectly happy with leaving it to an expert, whereas some just like to look in themselves (me too) or take it to a another expert. Of course Geography comes into this as well.
>> Edited by Mark Adams on Monday 9th May 07:49
It's just that you have to go to Austec to get it done. So yes it really is just straight dyno time, as with any other system.
Really it's up to you whether this is what you want or not. Most people are perfectly happy with leaving it to an expert, whereas some just like to look in themselves (me too) or take it to a another expert. Of course Geography comes into this as well.
>> Edited by Mark Adams on Monday 9th May 07:49
Wasnt aware this was the case, perhaps Austec have lost out on a few customers by not making it clearer?
I would personally still go the Emerald route as it has more features to be unlocked (too many to list, very tasty options too!) in the future and has been shown to provide (near as dammit) the same power on another Rolling Road.
Cant help but feel Austec have lost out by not getting a car on the Surrey Rolling Road/ John Nobles so people can get a fair comparison?? Must admit, I got the impression that it would be a one off remap too, one that couldnt be changed if further mods were done?
I would personally still go the Emerald route as it has more features to be unlocked (too many to list, very tasty options too!) in the future and has been shown to provide (near as dammit) the same power on another Rolling Road.
Cant help but feel Austec have lost out by not getting a car on the Surrey Rolling Road/ John Nobles so people can get a fair comparison?? Must admit, I got the impression that it would be a one off remap too, one that couldnt be changed if further mods were done?
Well my argument has been that the Emerald route allows you to remap at will anywhere in the country that's emerald-friendly, as Mark points out any MBE remap will have to be done at Austec (well for the short term anyway ..)
But Mark is right in that you *can* go on to have more remaps done on the MBE at Austec if you upgrade .. but on the RV8 chimaera Emerald/other ecu thread the costs were 70 pounds an hour for Mark and 120 pounds an hour for then rolling road time .. so if the MBE costs time wise are the same and you did any upgrades that needed a few hours on the rollers you've spent another 400-600 pounds or maye more if every site was checked and adjusted.
.. so you *can* remap the mbe as many times as you like, it just becomes much less cost effective the more you do it IMO.
I've always told everyone coming to Joospeed that if they want to have their cars in dealer-interrogate mode and are only interested in one remap, don't plan any upgrades and don't want to have a play with the ecu themselves then the Austec route is the way to go.
For everyone else I believe the emerald route is the better option.
IMO.
But Mark is right in that you *can* go on to have more remaps done on the MBE at Austec if you upgrade .. but on the RV8 chimaera Emerald/other ecu thread the costs were 70 pounds an hour for Mark and 120 pounds an hour for then rolling road time .. so if the MBE costs time wise are the same and you did any upgrades that needed a few hours on the rollers you've spent another 400-600 pounds or maye more if every site was checked and adjusted.
.. so you *can* remap the mbe as many times as you like, it just becomes much less cost effective the more you do it IMO.
I've always told everyone coming to Joospeed that if they want to have their cars in dealer-interrogate mode and are only interested in one remap, don't plan any upgrades and don't want to have a play with the ecu themselves then the Austec route is the way to go.
For everyone else I believe the emerald route is the better option.
IMO.
BCA said:
Cant help but feel Austec have lost out by not getting a car on the Surrey Rolling Road/ John Nobles so people can get a fair comparison??
It wasnt Austec's fault that 'That' car wasnt at Surrey RRs. I sent it into them for a checkup too close to the Surrey RR day and they found a problem which couldnt be sorted in time for the RR (parts had to come from TVR and they shut down for 2 weeks at Easter
) Its been rather an ongoing story getting the car finished off as they have been so busy, but thats another story. The good news is that I had a call from Austec this morning to say its all back together and has fired up for the 1st time in many weeks. They want a day with him tomorrow to check everything out but I have arranged to collect him Wednesday morning
. I cant bloody wait!(now watch the weather turn shite) Now, I have always said that as soon as I could I would make arrangements with Charlie to bring the car back over to Surrey RR and get a true comparison. Unfortunately (here he goes again!) I am away on holiday in France next week but will defo get it sorted as soon as I can upon my return.
Mr Adams, are you going to be poking around with my car tomorrow?
Maybe they havent made it clear, but Austec have always let it be known to me that their MBE remap is not a one off only jobbie and that I can have it tweaked whenever, but yes it has to go back to them. As I live not 10 miles from them, Ive never seen it as a problem.
'If' I lived nearer to Joolz than Austec then I would have probably had the Emerald done by him. I would imagine, as the results and prices are very similar, the ultimate decision would come down to which is the nearer specialist to your home?
>> Edited by NJW 77 on Monday 9th May 12:05
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