Reasonable notice for day off?
Discussion
Hey guys
Looking for a consensus here, the question is: A shift worker (supermarket), contracted for 3 days a week. Needs one of those days off. How long is a reasonable amount of times notice for the employee to give his manager for a day off or a shift swap from one of his contracted days?
And as a follow up; said employee is already consistently working an additional 1 or 2 days every week in overtime hours, would it come off as immature if the employee says that he will no longer sign up for aforementioned overtime hours if he can't get his one contract shift swapped, or is this a reasonable tool of leverage to actually get an idle manager to do something?
Thanks for input, trying to resolve a bit of a situation I am in.
Looking for a consensus here, the question is: A shift worker (supermarket), contracted for 3 days a week. Needs one of those days off. How long is a reasonable amount of times notice for the employee to give his manager for a day off or a shift swap from one of his contracted days?
And as a follow up; said employee is already consistently working an additional 1 or 2 days every week in overtime hours, would it come off as immature if the employee says that he will no longer sign up for aforementioned overtime hours if he can't get his one contract shift swapped, or is this a reasonable tool of leverage to actually get an idle manager to do something?
Thanks for input, trying to resolve a bit of a situation I am in.
Sir Bagalot said:
One of my old bosses was an arse. Getting the odd day off was a PITA so it was amazing how many funerals/Kids/Wife hospital appointments I had to attend. Mention those and there is no arguement and immediate sign off
The actual situation I am in is the wedding of a close family friend. Due to a date mixup I thought I would have had the day off. Figured out I didn't, have told manager. This was 2 weeks ago, wedding is in 1.5 weeks. Genuinely if nothing gets done I am telling them I simply can't come in. Issue is with my job (multi drop delivery driver), if they don't get cover it simply can't get done the next day or by another colleague, in the store. Really not sure what to do, manager has put the shift up as an available overtime, but isn't exactly being proactive about finding folk to fill it. Never thought to have a look in my employee handbook. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea where it is (have been in this job close to 2 years and have moved house).
caelite said:
Sir Bagalot said:
One of my old bosses was an arse. Getting the odd day off was a PITA so it was amazing how many funerals/Kids/Wife hospital appointments I had to attend. Mention those and there is no arguement and immediate sign off
The actual situation I am in is the wedding of a close family friend. Due to a date mixup I thought I would have had the day off. Figured out I didn't, have told manager. This was 2 weeks ago, wedding is in 1.5 weeks. Genuinely if nothing gets done I am telling them I simply can't come in. Issue is with my job (multi drop delivery driver), if they don't get cover it simply can't get done the next day or by another colleague, in the store. Really not sure what to do, manager has put the shift up as an available overtime, but isn't exactly being proactive about finding folk to fill it. Never thought to have a look in my employee handbook. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea where it is (have been in this job close to 2 years and have moved house).
As has been suggested, try to arrange cover yourself either by doing a shift swap or if a colleague will do it on OT with you booking holiday. It's much harder for your manager to argue if you've presented a solution rather than just a problem. Normally, management just want the shift covered and they're not fussed who by.
caelite said:
The actual situation I am in is the wedding of a close family friend. Due to a date mixup I thought I would have had the day off. Figured out I didn't, have told manager. This was 2 weeks ago, wedding is in 1.5 weeks. Genuinely if nothing gets done I am telling them I simply can't come in. Issue is with my job (multi drop delivery driver), if they don't get cover it simply can't get done the next day or by another colleague, in the store.
Really not sure what to do, manager has put the shift up as an available overtime, but isn't exactly being proactive about finding folk to fill it. Never thought to have a look in my employee handbook. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea where it is (have been in this job close to 2 years and have moved house).
3.5 weeks notice seems more than reasonable to me, although I'm not in a shift environment with rotas.Really not sure what to do, manager has put the shift up as an available overtime, but isn't exactly being proactive about finding folk to fill it. Never thought to have a look in my employee handbook. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea where it is (have been in this job close to 2 years and have moved house).
As a manager I'm happy to accommodate last minute requests but that's in an office environment.
How far in advance to they produce the rota? 4 weeks? That might be what's determined as reasonable notice at your place of work.
Depends a bit on the role. Checkouts wouldn’t need as much notice as PI for example as there are more people who can cover a checkout shift. When I worked for every little helps you could shift swap up to the day before as long as you had arranged it yourself and the form was completed in advance. To take annual leave required much more notice, probably a month as a minimum. It isn’t your managers job to get you out of your mix up, they have advertised the shift now you need to sell it to your colleagues to get it filled.
Yes immature to say you won’t do any overtime, I’m sure it would piss them off but you would also lose out financially. If you wanted to get your own back you would be better off just refusing the odd overtime shift when you know it creates the most difficulty for them without actually saying anything. They will figure it out eventually but can’t do anything about it which brilliant.
Yes immature to say you won’t do any overtime, I’m sure it would piss them off but you would also lose out financially. If you wanted to get your own back you would be better off just refusing the odd overtime shift when you know it creates the most difficulty for them without actually saying anything. They will figure it out eventually but can’t do anything about it which brilliant.
Edited by colin79666 on Thursday 27th September 09:30
I work shifts and our rota is frozen minimum of 5 weeks out and all holiday is at mutual agreement (ie if it can't be covered, you have to work it or breach of contract)
Anything below that, you have to sort out yourself, get cover or a swap.
But really, if he's agreed ot can be used, then talk to your team, surely someone will want the money ?
Anything below that, you have to sort out yourself, get cover or a swap.
But really, if he's agreed ot can be used, then talk to your team, surely someone will want the money ?
Legal position is 2 days, unless your contract says otherwise.
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/book...
Company needs to give you 1 days notice of their decision.
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/book...
Company needs to give you 1 days notice of their decision.
If your shifts are already out then it's your responsibility to change it. Ask colleagues for swaps etc.
If your manager has put it out as overtime then that shows he's trying. But it's not his responsibility and unlikely he has the time to be asking others on your behalf if they can cover the shift for you.
Ultimately if you don't come in and you've made little effort in finding someone to cover your job then you might be screwing yourself over in the long run. You mention you could refuse to do overtime but it's quite possible they'll refuse to give you any either.
Our shifts are fixed 8 weeks in advance and the above applies. It's only if you've informed management there's a day you can't do, which they agree to, and then mistakenly rota you anyway that it becomes their responsibility to give that shift covered.
As someone else said if you come forward with a solution which the manager just has to say yes to rather than a problem, you'll be much more successful.
If your manager has put it out as overtime then that shows he's trying. But it's not his responsibility and unlikely he has the time to be asking others on your behalf if they can cover the shift for you.
Ultimately if you don't come in and you've made little effort in finding someone to cover your job then you might be screwing yourself over in the long run. You mention you could refuse to do overtime but it's quite possible they'll refuse to give you any either.
Our shifts are fixed 8 weeks in advance and the above applies. It's only if you've informed management there's a day you can't do, which they agree to, and then mistakenly rota you anyway that it becomes their responsibility to give that shift covered.
As someone else said if you come forward with a solution which the manager just has to say yes to rather than a problem, you'll be much more successful.
Our work is organised a few week's ahead (and the work is organised in to fixed days) so I'd hope for about that much notice from my staff, but if it's something I'll usually try and fit in.
Most of my staff are some kind of part time, so if it's a question of getting the work covered they'll often just work a different day.
Most of my staff are some kind of part time, so if it's a question of getting the work covered they'll often just work a different day.
Opportunity presented itself today, manager needed a Sunday morning shift (obviously not popular) covered at short notice. Told her I could do it provided she scrubs my name off the rota for the day I needed there and then. She had agreed, and actually apologised it had taken her so long to get to it. Unfortunately my place is like Gary's, loads of notice is needed for holidays (our holiday year is March-March, they want all holidays booked by the end of July), outside of booked holidays it's the employees responsibility to get their own time off covered. Issue I now have is, bar my 1 day off for that wedding, however I now realise that has moved my first day off back by 8 days. So will have been working 17 days straight by that point, yay! (something something EU work time mandate, something something, work-life balance),
Thanks again for the advice, will definitely try to grab another colleague book next time I am in the store office, or dig it out from wherever I've filed it. I have no doubt there is a policy specifically outlining stuff like this, but I also have no doubt it is seldom followed, gotta love supermarket work.
Thanks again for the advice, will definitely try to grab another colleague book next time I am in the store office, or dig it out from wherever I've filed it. I have no doubt there is a policy specifically outlining stuff like this, but I also have no doubt it is seldom followed, gotta love supermarket work.
caelite said:
Sir Bagalot said:
One of my old bosses was an arse. Getting the odd day off was a PITA so it was amazing how many funerals/Kids/Wife hospital appointments I had to attend. Mention those and there is no arguement and immediate sign off
The actual situation I am in is the wedding of a close family friend. Due to a date mixup I thought I would have had the day off. Figured out I didn't, have told manager. This was 2 weeks ago, wedding is in 1.5 weeks. Genuinely if nothing gets done I am telling them I simply can't come in. Issue is with my job (multi drop delivery driver), if they don't get cover it simply can't get done the next day or by another colleague, in the store. Really not sure what to do, manager has put the shift up as an available overtime, but isn't exactly being proactive about finding folk to fill it. Never thought to have a look in my employee handbook. To be honest I haven't the slightest idea where it is (have been in this job close to 2 years and have moved house).
98elise said:
That's way more then enough time IMO. My old boss used to say twice the period off, so one day needed a couple of days notice, a week needed two weeks notice etc.
If I want more than the odd day off I have to give up to a years notice.I’ve just submitted my requests up until the end of September next year. I’m not guaranteed them either, depends how they fit with others requests.
djc206 said:
If I want more than the odd day off I have to give up to a years notice.
I’ve just submitted my requests up until the end of September next year. I’m not guaranteed them either, depends how they fit with others requests.
That's absolutely mad....I have enough difficulty planning a few months in advance.I’ve just submitted my requests up until the end of September next year. I’m not guaranteed them either, depends how they fit with others requests.
I asked to swap my rest days around, so did not even need a day off, for my sisters wedding.
I gave the company 6 months notice, manager said no, I left 2 weeks later.
We had approx 160 drivers at our bus garage, within a 3 month period 43 drivers left, all because of the new manager, and head office did diddly squat!
I gave the company 6 months notice, manager said no, I left 2 weeks later.
We had approx 160 drivers at our bus garage, within a 3 month period 43 drivers left, all because of the new manager, and head office did diddly squat!
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