Stolen ford Keyless Mondeo
Discussion
Hi guys we had a car stolen a couple of days ago from the forecourt at about 9:45pm. The car was a Mondeo Titanium X Sport with keyless entry. I am trying to find out how the car was stolen to avoid this happening again so I will give you some back round as its totally baffled me.
The car was parked on the Garage forecourt and the keys were 1/2 mile away locked in a safe at out main office so they cant have used a "booster" to Boost the signal, there was no broken glass so entry must have been via a key or keyless entry. We have not given out the keys to anyone to view the car so it cant be a simple swap over of keys. The car was sold but it was sold online hence not giving the keys out. On the CCTV we see a BMW drive onto the car park less than 3 minutes later the Mondeo drives out followed by the BMW.
Is there now a way that the thieving scumbags can now manipulate keyless entry without any form of actually copying of boosting the signal on Ford cars??
Just to emphasis here I am 100% positive that it was nothing to do with any of our employees they have all worked for us for many years and I trust them 100%.
Any help would be great.
Chris
The car was parked on the Garage forecourt and the keys were 1/2 mile away locked in a safe at out main office so they cant have used a "booster" to Boost the signal, there was no broken glass so entry must have been via a key or keyless entry. We have not given out the keys to anyone to view the car so it cant be a simple swap over of keys. The car was sold but it was sold online hence not giving the keys out. On the CCTV we see a BMW drive onto the car park less than 3 minutes later the Mondeo drives out followed by the BMW.
Is there now a way that the thieving scumbags can now manipulate keyless entry without any form of actually copying of boosting the signal on Ford cars??
Just to emphasis here I am 100% positive that it was nothing to do with any of our employees they have all worked for us for many years and I trust them 100%.
Any help would be great.
Chris
Lots of ways it could be done - depends on the tools they had available and whether they had prior awareness of the vehicle (I doubt it)
Usually some form of forced entry is needed to access the OBD port - doesn't have to involve breaking glass, but if they were careful about doing so you wouldn't necessarily find any evidence of it on the floor.
You can access the CAN via any number of routes - removal of a light, making a hole in a panel - which then gets you in by shunting the wiring with probes and sending an unlock signal to the correct module.
Once in you simply plug a tool into the OBD port, with a new keyless fob in the vicinity, programme it to the car and drive away......
I suspect your insurer will want some evidence that you're in possession of all the original supplied keys. Our S5 is keyless and it was missing the emergency spare, so had to get a replacement and code to the car, along with removing the previous one, to make sure it couldn't be used. It could still open the door, however, as I'm not changing a lock set!
Cloning a key while a car it's in for service is the absolute easiest route. The car just sees the same key as handed over when it's dropped off. You literally drop the key in a pot, it reads the codes, put a blank in and it writes to that one. Takes seconds.
Usually some form of forced entry is needed to access the OBD port - doesn't have to involve breaking glass, but if they were careful about doing so you wouldn't necessarily find any evidence of it on the floor.
You can access the CAN via any number of routes - removal of a light, making a hole in a panel - which then gets you in by shunting the wiring with probes and sending an unlock signal to the correct module.
Once in you simply plug a tool into the OBD port, with a new keyless fob in the vicinity, programme it to the car and drive away......
I suspect your insurer will want some evidence that you're in possession of all the original supplied keys. Our S5 is keyless and it was missing the emergency spare, so had to get a replacement and code to the car, along with removing the previous one, to make sure it couldn't be used. It could still open the door, however, as I'm not changing a lock set!
Cloning a key while a car it's in for service is the absolute easiest route. The car just sees the same key as handed over when it's dropped off. You literally drop the key in a pot, it reads the codes, put a blank in and it writes to that one. Takes seconds.
via obd port is the easiest
signal booster(can this be done over the phone network ? after all its just data)
was it physically just lifted/dragged onto a wagon?
have you checked nearby cctv neighbours, would a neighbour bat an eyelid at a garage loading a car onto a wagon with strobes and flashers going?
copy of the key in circulation somewhere other garage/previous owner etc?
signal booster(can this be done over the phone network ? after all its just data)
was it physically just lifted/dragged onto a wagon?
have you checked nearby cctv neighbours, would a neighbour bat an eyelid at a garage loading a car onto a wagon with strobes and flashers going?
copy of the key in circulation somewhere other garage/previous owner etc?
chris52 said:
Hi guys we had a car stolen a couple of days ago from the forecourt at about 9:45pm. The car was a Mondeo Titanium X Sport with keyless entry. I am trying to find out how the car was stolen to avoid this happening again so I will give you some back round as its totally baffled me.
The car was parked on the Garage forecourt and the keys were 1/2 mile away locked in a safe at out main office so they cant have used a "booster" to Boost the signal, there was no broken glass so entry must have been via a key or keyless entry. We have not given out the keys to anyone to view the car so it cant be a simple swap over of keys. The car was sold but it was sold online hence not giving the keys out. On the CCTV we see a BMW drive onto the car park less than 3 minutes later the Mondeo drives out followed by the BMW.
Is there now a way that the thieving scumbags can now manipulate keyless entry without any form of actually copying of boosting the signal on Ford cars??
Just to emphasis here I am 100% positive that it was nothing to do with any of our employees they have all worked for us for many years and I trust them 100%.
Any help would be great.
Chris
Car glass doesn't shatter any more, so they could have forced entry without leaving much evidence. Glass is laminated so it will deform, so it's simply a matter deforming it until you can force out (or inwards). The car was parked on the Garage forecourt and the keys were 1/2 mile away locked in a safe at out main office so they cant have used a "booster" to Boost the signal, there was no broken glass so entry must have been via a key or keyless entry. We have not given out the keys to anyone to view the car so it cant be a simple swap over of keys. The car was sold but it was sold online hence not giving the keys out. On the CCTV we see a BMW drive onto the car park less than 3 minutes later the Mondeo drives out followed by the BMW.
Is there now a way that the thieving scumbags can now manipulate keyless entry without any form of actually copying of boosting the signal on Ford cars??
Just to emphasis here I am 100% positive that it was nothing to do with any of our employees they have all worked for us for many years and I trust them 100%.
Any help would be great.
Chris
Then as others have said, you can start the car using the OBD port.
The only thing you can do is beef up security and maybe add a few more CCTV cameras.
chris52 said:
Is there now a way that the thieving scumbags can now manipulate keyless entry without any form of actually copying of boosting the signal on Ford cars??
Chris
Yes, as others have said, OBD port theft (it's nothing new).Chris
Manufacturers make it easy for thieves with the right equipment - the OBD port must be easily accessible and must always be "open" (not encrypted) by law.
The only thing you could do is move (and hide) the OBD port on all the vehicles you have in stock ! Or put locks on the OBD ports !
The problem is not unique to Ford !
captain_cynic said:
Car glass doesn't shatter any more, so they could have forced entry without leaving much evidence. Glass is laminated so it will deform, so it's simply a matter deforming it until you can force out (or inwards).
Then as others have said, you can start the car using the OBD port.
The only thing you can do is beef up security and maybe add a few more CCTV cameras.
Most car side glass if just standard specification is not "laminated" it is "toughened". Both fall under the field of "safety" glass but the manner and methods in which they achieve this are vastly different.Then as others have said, you can start the car using the OBD port.
The only thing you can do is beef up security and maybe add a few more CCTV cameras.
Toughened glass is the exact reason so many thieves attack the rear of the property as there is generally less security, but usually there is larger doors with toughened glass.
Toughened glass will in general shatter to tiny bits, is very quiet to do so and in the case of this which does sound like an OBD port theft if you use a centre punch or other implement will leave no glass surrounding the vehicles original location.
Laminate glass would have taken far far longer to get to the OBD port as there is a PVB layer holding the glass together and in place. It is what you find on a windscreen of a car and is becoming more prevalent as an option on side and rear windows. Equally in some houses it is becoming more common for the reasons like above it is far more "secure" than toughened glass in real terms.
I want to introduce a third option specifically because this was a Ford theft where the locking systems if keyless are notoriously easily to pick presuming the keyless system has a keylock somewhere in the situation of a dead battery? If so that could have been the method.
chris52 said:
Thanks Guys I think an update in security is needed. More secure barriers etc and keyless cars blocked in.
Bitter pill to swallow as it’s just not worth claiming on the company insurance.
Chris
What is the value of the car that it is not worth claiming for?Bitter pill to swallow as it’s just not worth claiming on the company insurance.
Chris
Barriers look better than wheel clamps, that makes the place look like a real mess and customers can't even check if the wheels are damaged.
Ninja59 said:
captain_cynic said:
Car glass doesn't shatter any more, so they could have forced entry without leaving much evidence. Glass is laminated so it will deform, so it's simply a matter deforming it until you can force out (or inwards).
Then as others have said, you can start the car using the OBD port.
The only thing you can do is beef up security and maybe add a few more CCTV cameras.
Most car side glass if just standard specification is not "laminated" it is "toughened". Both fall under the field of "safety" glass but the manner and methods in which they achieve this are vastly different.Then as others have said, you can start the car using the OBD port.
The only thing you can do is beef up security and maybe add a few more CCTV cameras.
Toughened glass is the exact reason so many thieves attack the rear of the property as there is generally less security, but usually there is larger doors with toughened glass.
Toughened glass will in general shatter to tiny bits, is very quiet to do so and in the case of this which does sound like an OBD port theft if you use a centre punch or other implement will leave no glass surrounding the vehicles original location.
Laminate glass would have taken far far longer to get to the OBD port as there is a PVB layer holding the glass together and in place. It is what you find on a windscreen of a car and is becoming more prevalent as an option on side and rear windows. Equally in some houses it is becoming more common for the reasons like above it is far more "secure" than toughened glass in real terms.
I want to introduce a third option specifically because this was a Ford theft where the locking systems if keyless are notoriously easily to pick presuming the keyless system has a keylock somewhere in the situation of a dead battery? If so that could have been the method.
had this happen to my fiesta - doesnt need to be keyless to be stolen, police sent us a link to a bump key that works on most new fords £10 on ebay- got them on CCTV - 10 seconds they were in the car no broken glass and then another 2 minutes to clone the key using OBD port.
In my instance the alarm went off as they had opened the car without the key. Suffice to say they didnt care about the cctv or the alarm..
In my instance the alarm went off as they had opened the car without the key. Suffice to say they didnt care about the cctv or the alarm..
Red 4 said:
Yes, as others have said, OBD port theft (it's nothing new).
Manufacturers make it easy for thieves with the right equipment - the OBD port must be easily accessible and must always be "open" (not encrypted) by law.
The only thing you could do is move (and hide) the OBD port on all the vehicles you have in stock ! Or put locks on the OBD ports !
The problem is not unique to Ford !
^^^^ This.Manufacturers make it easy for thieves with the right equipment - the OBD port must be easily accessible and must always be "open" (not encrypted) by law.
The only thing you could do is move (and hide) the OBD port on all the vehicles you have in stock ! Or put locks on the OBD ports !
The problem is not unique to Ford !
Protect or disable the OBD port.
Plenty of options out there from simply cutting a wire and tucking back to armoured steel shrouds.
Most options will delay any potential thief long enough to put them off.
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