Compulsory flu jab for NHS staff.
Discussion
Okay, slightly exaggerated title as I don't believe it is compulsory.
However, I understand policy has changed this year in that NHS staff refusing to be jabbed will be asked to explain the reason to their employer.
This seems to have been reported widely a month back but passed me by =
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/07/nh...
The topic only peaked my interest today, when my wife (a mental health nurse like me), told me she'd received an email from one of the 'flu fighters' on her ward stating that staff who decline the vaccination would need to give a valid reason.
Now, I've never had the flu in my 45 years. I work on a ward but with pretty healthy adult patients. I have no intention of accepting the flu jab. If asked for a reason, the best I can come up with is something along the lines of last years vaccination targeting (among others) the H3N2 strain of flu was largely ineffective. Please provide me evidence that the latest jab is worthwhile.
Is this unreasonable? If I was working with older/vulnerable patients I'd probably just bite the bullet and tow the line. Can anyone link me to any decent articles I can cite regarding my response? To me, this does seem little more than a data gathering activity on the part of the NHS and a half hearted attempt to prompt a bit of compliance so I'm not too concerned (for this year anyway).
However, I understand policy has changed this year in that NHS staff refusing to be jabbed will be asked to explain the reason to their employer.
This seems to have been reported widely a month back but passed me by =
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/07/nh...
The topic only peaked my interest today, when my wife (a mental health nurse like me), told me she'd received an email from one of the 'flu fighters' on her ward stating that staff who decline the vaccination would need to give a valid reason.
Now, I've never had the flu in my 45 years. I work on a ward but with pretty healthy adult patients. I have no intention of accepting the flu jab. If asked for a reason, the best I can come up with is something along the lines of last years vaccination targeting (among others) the H3N2 strain of flu was largely ineffective. Please provide me evidence that the latest jab is worthwhile.
Is this unreasonable? If I was working with older/vulnerable patients I'd probably just bite the bullet and tow the line. Can anyone link me to any decent articles I can cite regarding my response? To me, this does seem little more than a data gathering activity on the part of the NHS and a half hearted attempt to prompt a bit of compliance so I'm not too concerned (for this year anyway).
BoRED S2upid said:
Never had flu in 45 years? You lucky thing! Hence why you feel the jab isn’t required. A few good doses and you would be at the front of the line effective or not. I hate the flu and will get every jab going even if I have to pay a few quid for it.
For NHS staff it's more about not passing it on to patients than the staff member. The OP has stated he doesn't come into contact with vulnerable people but I still think he should be part of the attempted herd immunity. rossub said:
Err how about you don’t want to be stabbed in the arm and injected with something that isn’t actually proven to work?
It would actuallly be assault if they forced you to have it, so making it compulsory is not possible.
I’m NHS, but non patient facing. I ain’t having it.
In a nutshell, that is it I suppose.It would actuallly be assault if they forced you to have it, so making it compulsory is not possible.
I’m NHS, but non patient facing. I ain’t having it.
I'm also wondering where this will go next though - it's a pretty common clause in any contract I've ever had, that my employment is subject to my vaccinations being up to date. I'm thinking things like rubella, BCG, Hep B. I assume the flu jab could become part of that.
Last winter’s flu jab we are told worked for fewer than 1 in 3 of the over-65s given it - I'm in that group.
Never had a flu jab, ever.
A good few years back late one winter I went down with flu and it knocked be back something awful. I was pestered thereafter each year by GP practice to have the jab, in fact last year while in the GPs to make an appointment in November and I was asked if I'd had the jab, and said no. I could go through and have it now I was informed. I nearly capitulated and then thought at the time it was odd so asked if I needed to fill any form in, was told no, just go through and see the nurse. I thought for a moment and then said thank you, but no and refused the offer. Just after Xmas a close friend got flu who'd had the jab, he was quite ill and was told it was a reaction to the jab. He has several allergies one of which is eggs, and he had no idea (nor did I) that the flu jabs are nearly all egg-based and it was this that caused his reaction!
This year they have a new jab, a 4 in 1 for younger adults, and a new vaccine which targets 3 flu strains for the likes of my age group on. It's already stated it may produce side effects. They have no idea how many will get side-effects. It states that all elderly patients should - 'should'? why is that not 'must'? - be informed of this because it may cause more of a reaction than vaccines have done in previous years. (ie I'm reading that they don't know. Guinea pigs anyone?).
1 in 4 patients will suffer injection site pain and 13 per cent will get a headache, states the maker of the vaccine, Seqirus.
I would hardly call a bit of site pain and a headache anything to worry about, would you? So what's the betting there are possibly going to be more of a side effect in some people, because as I noted last year I was informed of nothing ie: go and get your jab, no questions, end of.
This new jab called Fluad was licensed for use only last year in the UK (guess what? it's been available elsewhere, even on the continent in Italy since 1997 where it was first approved. I tried unsuccessfully to find out why we've not used it earlier if it's so freely available elsewhere. Cost? You can bet your bottom dollar money will be in there somewhere).
Fluad, according to med sources, has had adverse events, which to be fair can happen with the previous flu jabs, BUT these events were reported more frequently after vaccination with FLUAD.
I've missed the jabs all this time, so I'll miss again, while at the same time realising how serious flu can be.
My main argument against bothering is not just the possible side effects I don't want, but more that if 'some' medical front line staff can't be arsed, why tf should I? Anyway, knowing my luck, I'd have the jab and be the one who gets the serious reaction.
Never had a flu jab, ever.
A good few years back late one winter I went down with flu and it knocked be back something awful. I was pestered thereafter each year by GP practice to have the jab, in fact last year while in the GPs to make an appointment in November and I was asked if I'd had the jab, and said no. I could go through and have it now I was informed. I nearly capitulated and then thought at the time it was odd so asked if I needed to fill any form in, was told no, just go through and see the nurse. I thought for a moment and then said thank you, but no and refused the offer. Just after Xmas a close friend got flu who'd had the jab, he was quite ill and was told it was a reaction to the jab. He has several allergies one of which is eggs, and he had no idea (nor did I) that the flu jabs are nearly all egg-based and it was this that caused his reaction!
This year they have a new jab, a 4 in 1 for younger adults, and a new vaccine which targets 3 flu strains for the likes of my age group on. It's already stated it may produce side effects. They have no idea how many will get side-effects. It states that all elderly patients should - 'should'? why is that not 'must'? - be informed of this because it may cause more of a reaction than vaccines have done in previous years. (ie I'm reading that they don't know. Guinea pigs anyone?).
1 in 4 patients will suffer injection site pain and 13 per cent will get a headache, states the maker of the vaccine, Seqirus.
I would hardly call a bit of site pain and a headache anything to worry about, would you? So what's the betting there are possibly going to be more of a side effect in some people, because as I noted last year I was informed of nothing ie: go and get your jab, no questions, end of.
This new jab called Fluad was licensed for use only last year in the UK (guess what? it's been available elsewhere, even on the continent in Italy since 1997 where it was first approved. I tried unsuccessfully to find out why we've not used it earlier if it's so freely available elsewhere. Cost? You can bet your bottom dollar money will be in there somewhere).
Fluad, according to med sources, has had adverse events, which to be fair can happen with the previous flu jabs, BUT these events were reported more frequently after vaccination with FLUAD.
I've missed the jabs all this time, so I'll miss again, while at the same time realising how serious flu can be.
My main argument against bothering is not just the possible side effects I don't want, but more that if 'some' medical front line staff can't be arsed, why tf should I? Anyway, knowing my luck, I'd have the jab and be the one who gets the serious reaction.
227bhp said:
I had mine yesterday, why not? It's free, takes a few seconds and doesn't hurt. The nurse administering it said she'd just had hers and it covered about 4 strains I think.
It's not free for everyone. 18 to 65 yr olds considered 'healthy' (ie with no pre-existing conditions) have to pay (not a lot grant you, around 12 quid I think?).
If it covered 4 strains I believe you've had the 'super' jab, the 'turbo' jab 3 strains is for over 65s.
Anyhow, good luck. And good on the nurse having had hers.
If there is evidence that increased compliance amongst frontline staff reduces flu rates amongst patients then that's fair enough.
I'm frontline but I have the flu jab for my own personal safety over anything else (I'm diabetic and flu makes blood sugar control really difficult), but acknowledge that we should all be doing what we can to reduce transmission. It's a shame they don't seem to be that great at predicting the most virulent strains for the following season yet so it's questionable how important everyone having the flu jab actually is.
Interestingly this year's jab is the first I've ever had that I haven't had any side effects from. Usually I have cold/flu-like symptoms for a week but nothing this time. I wonder if this is because of splitting the jab into two this year?
The problem is a lot of people who get flu and should stay at home end up coming to hospital and spreading it around. As much as we follow hygiene rules and have vaccinations, if there are people coming into hospital it's difficult to stop these things spreading.
I'm frontline but I have the flu jab for my own personal safety over anything else (I'm diabetic and flu makes blood sugar control really difficult), but acknowledge that we should all be doing what we can to reduce transmission. It's a shame they don't seem to be that great at predicting the most virulent strains for the following season yet so it's questionable how important everyone having the flu jab actually is.
Interestingly this year's jab is the first I've ever had that I haven't had any side effects from. Usually I have cold/flu-like symptoms for a week but nothing this time. I wonder if this is because of splitting the jab into two this year?
The problem is a lot of people who get flu and should stay at home end up coming to hospital and spreading it around. As much as we follow hygiene rules and have vaccinations, if there are people coming into hospital it's difficult to stop these things spreading.
I've had the flu once about 20 years ago. Truly awful experience. Probably the most ill I have ever felt. Not sure I would cope as well these days as I did back then....but I have only ever had the jab when bird flu pandemic was a concern and my company offered it free to everyone (I work in Pharmaceutical manufacture).
So.… now I'm in my 50's, I've decided to go with it...booked for Friday at 10.30 at the pharmacist.
I can't see how the NHS or any company could force you to take it ?
PS on the comments of severe reaction....the doctor, nurse, pharmacist should always check for egg allergy before administration of an egg based vaccine...malpractice not to do so in my opinion.
So.… now I'm in my 50's, I've decided to go with it...booked for Friday at 10.30 at the pharmacist.
I can't see how the NHS or any company could force you to take it ?
PS on the comments of severe reaction....the doctor, nurse, pharmacist should always check for egg allergy before administration of an egg based vaccine...malpractice not to do so in my opinion.
calletso said:
At my NHS trust every member of staff that has the flu jab receives a £3.50 voucher to redeem in the staff canteen.
We all know how NHS staff like their food so uptake is very high!
Put a slice of chocolate cake under the noses of the staff at my surgery and they'd fight for it!We all know how NHS staff like their food so uptake is very high!
My local hospital was third in the acute trusts take-up table last year with 79.3% of staff having a flu jab:
http://www.nhsemployers.org/news/2017/11/latest-fl...
Edited by Riley Blue on Wednesday 10th October 14:49
I've had flu before and gladly accepted the offer of having the vaccine this year after my work offered it free of charge to all employees. I had it this afternoon and, like the other poster above, found it entirely painless and it only took a few seconds. I can't think of a reason why anyone would turn it down, particularly those who work for the NHS and who should (I hope) realise the possible value of such vaccination programmes.
Most flu infections are sub clinical, but you are still able to pass the virus on to vulnerable patients, hence the reason why there is a strong drive to get as many members of staff immunised as possible.
You're right it's not 100% effective but then again neither is washing your hands. Refusing the jab on the grounds that you've never had flu is akin to refusing to wash your hands between patients on the basis that you've never had MRSA......
My work place (big Pharma company) is offering free flu jabs and I partake every year, I don't know if it's prevented me having flu or not, all I can say is that for the last 3 years I haven't had flu and the jab has done me no harm at all. Plus there's a chance that it's prevented me passing on a sub-clinical infection to one of my children or elderly relative.
https://www.jwatch.org/na34017/2014/03/20/most-inf...
You're right it's not 100% effective but then again neither is washing your hands. Refusing the jab on the grounds that you've never had flu is akin to refusing to wash your hands between patients on the basis that you've never had MRSA......
My work place (big Pharma company) is offering free flu jabs and I partake every year, I don't know if it's prevented me having flu or not, all I can say is that for the last 3 years I haven't had flu and the jab has done me no harm at all. Plus there's a chance that it's prevented me passing on a sub-clinical infection to one of my children or elderly relative.
https://www.jwatch.org/na34017/2014/03/20/most-inf...
Edited by RTB on Friday 12th October 10:02
I still think it's crazy the OP is fishing for reasons to decline a free vaccine that may protect them or others from flu. If they had suffered from it in the past I'm certain they'd be thinking differently.
To follow on from my post yesterday, it's now been over 24 hours since I had my vaccine and I have absolutely no side effects to report. Get it done you wuss!
To follow on from my post yesterday, it's now been over 24 hours since I had my vaccine and I have absolutely no side effects to report. Get it done you wuss!
Sparkov said:
Get it done you wuss!
Made me chuckle.Okay, so I'm a little less anti-flu jab than at the start of the thread as consensus is clearly in favour of it. Interesting/good to hear there's not much in terms of side effects.
Still not rushing to have it done, but I'll keep an open mind for the time being.
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