Owning more than one S&S ISA - paying fees?
Discussion
I have a S&S ISA with one provider (HL) which I haven't been contributing to regularly.
When I pay their annual fee - this counts as an ISA contribution apparently.
Now I want to start paying into a S&S ISA regularly.
But the fees are higher for HL than others. So I want to open an account with Cavendish and pay into that regularly, leaving the other money in HL so avoid a sale / transfer fee.
The problem with this comes in that I'm not allowed to pay into more than one S&S ISA in a given tax year. So if I pay anything into Cavendish I cannot pay the fees on my HL account. The only way to pay the fees is to have HL sell units to pay their fee - but this will incur more fee to sell the units!!!!
This seems an odd situation. Is there a way around it? Why can't fees be paid outside of the ISA system....its a fee!
Or do I need to work out the cheaper of:
A) the cavendish platform fee for new saving + HL unit sale fee to cover platform fee each year
B) moving everything to Cavendish
C) simply paying my regular money into HL
When I pay their annual fee - this counts as an ISA contribution apparently.
Now I want to start paying into a S&S ISA regularly.
But the fees are higher for HL than others. So I want to open an account with Cavendish and pay into that regularly, leaving the other money in HL so avoid a sale / transfer fee.
The problem with this comes in that I'm not allowed to pay into more than one S&S ISA in a given tax year. So if I pay anything into Cavendish I cannot pay the fees on my HL account. The only way to pay the fees is to have HL sell units to pay their fee - but this will incur more fee to sell the units!!!!
This seems an odd situation. Is there a way around it? Why can't fees be paid outside of the ISA system....its a fee!
Or do I need to work out the cheaper of:
A) the cavendish platform fee for new saving + HL unit sale fee to cover platform fee each year
B) moving everything to Cavendish
C) simply paying my regular money into HL
xeny said:
Do you have a link for this? I find it very odd, especially as I used to have a HL ISA.
Here we go, and there is an answer there for me:HL said:
10. I don’t want my investments to be sold but don’t have sufficient cash on my ISA or SIPP to meet the Suggested Minimum Cash Balance and can’t top up, what can I do?
If you would prefer that your investments were not sold you may wish to open or add money to a Vantage Fund & Share Account and we will collect any fees that cannot be collected from your Vantage ISA or SIPP from there. We collect fees from the income account first, then the capital account.
From http://links.h-l.co.uk/ctt?kn=9&ms=NTcxODU4Njc...If you would prefer that your investments were not sold you may wish to open or add money to a Vantage Fund & Share Account and we will collect any fees that cannot be collected from your Vantage ISA or SIPP from there. We collect fees from the income account first, then the capital account.
So I can open a Vantage Fund & Share Account outside my ISA and stick the fee money there I guess.
was8v said:
I have a S&S ISA with one provider (HL) which I haven't been contributing to regularly.
When I pay their annual fee - this counts as an ISA contribution apparently.
Now I want to start paying into a S&S ISA regularly.
But the fees are higher for HL than others. So I want to open an account with Cavendish and pay into that regularly, leaving the other money in HL so avoid a sale / transfer fee.
The problem with this comes in that I'm not allowed to pay into more than one S&S ISA in a given tax year. So if I pay anything into Cavendish I cannot pay the fees on my HL account. The only way to pay the fees is to have HL sell units to pay their fee - but this will incur more fee to sell the units!!!!
This seems an odd situation. Is there a way around it? Why can't fees be paid outside of the ISA system....its a fee!
Or do I need to work out the cheaper of:
A) the cavendish platform fee for new saving + HL unit sale fee to cover platform fee each year
B) moving everything to Cavendish
C) simply paying my regular money into HL
The section you are referring to is only relevant if you want charges to come out of a cash account rather than the selling of units.When I pay their annual fee - this counts as an ISA contribution apparently.
Now I want to start paying into a S&S ISA regularly.
But the fees are higher for HL than others. So I want to open an account with Cavendish and pay into that regularly, leaving the other money in HL so avoid a sale / transfer fee.
The problem with this comes in that I'm not allowed to pay into more than one S&S ISA in a given tax year. So if I pay anything into Cavendish I cannot pay the fees on my HL account. The only way to pay the fees is to have HL sell units to pay their fee - but this will incur more fee to sell the units!!!!
This seems an odd situation. Is there a way around it? Why can't fees be paid outside of the ISA system....its a fee!
Or do I need to work out the cheaper of:
A) the cavendish platform fee for new saving + HL unit sale fee to cover platform fee each year
B) moving everything to Cavendish
C) simply paying my regular money into HL
Selling units to cover charges is completely normal and the charge is identical whichever option you take (their is no charge for the sale of units) so I wouldn't worry about it and continue the way you have been doing.
In my opinion the Suggested Minimum Cash Balance option (and it is only an option) is a gimmick to keep you tied into HL for subsequent tax years (which is exactly as you so it, so it must be working for them!).
So the way around it is not to elect to do it!
So you can start a new ISA with Cavendish (HL deducting charges from units is NOT an ISA contribution), move everything to Cavendish to get lower fees on everything or continue with HL. The choice is entirely yours.
I would suggest you try Cavendish out before moving you HL ISA to them to see what you think of them.
They are indeed cheaper than HL but many people here prefer to pay a bit more for what HL offer. After a while you will be able to make up your own mind based upon experience of both.
My experience with Cavendish is, essentially, "Who are Cavendish?" as since opening my account I seem to deal directly with Fidelity via their portal.
To the OP I would say just check fees and availability of everything you think you may want to invest in as platform fees and choice can make a hell of a difference in a fairly short amount of time if you're using all your ISA allowance.
To the OP I would say just check fees and availability of everything you think you may want to invest in as platform fees and choice can make a hell of a difference in a fairly short amount of time if you're using all your ISA allowance.
Thanks all.
Thing is I'm new to all this, my dad managed the HL account for me, then he went and died suddenly before getting chance to explain anything.
I was going to just leave the money there in the funds he picked for me and invest "new" money in something I can understand, e.g. a vanguard lifestrategy and work out what to do with the HL investments as I read and understand more about analyzing their performance and when to buy / sell etc.
The reason for choosing lifestrategy on cavendish is the fees are lowest and everything I read says to minimise fees. And it was one of the things my dad told me to do when I started talking about investing regularly.
Thing is I'm new to all this, my dad managed the HL account for me, then he went and died suddenly before getting chance to explain anything.
I was going to just leave the money there in the funds he picked for me and invest "new" money in something I can understand, e.g. a vanguard lifestrategy and work out what to do with the HL investments as I read and understand more about analyzing their performance and when to buy / sell etc.
The reason for choosing lifestrategy on cavendish is the fees are lowest and everything I read says to minimise fees. And it was one of the things my dad told me to do when I started talking about investing regularly.
Edited by was8v on Saturday 20th October 11:31
was8v said:
Thanks all.
Thing is I'm new to all this, my dad managed the HL account for me, then he went and died suddenly before getting chance to explain anything.
I was going to just leave the money there in the funds he picked for me and invest "new" money in something I can understand, e.g. a vanguard lifestrategy and work out what to do with the HL investments as I read and understand more about analyzing their performance and when to buy / sell etc.
The reason for choosing lifestrategy on cavendish is the fees are lowest and everything I read says to minimise fees. And it was one of the things my dad told me to do when I started talking about investing regularly.
Sorry for your loss. Your dad was right around fees but it does depend on a combination of the amount you hold, the type of holding, and the way you invest i.e. infrequent lump sums or investing automatically every month.Thing is I'm new to all this, my dad managed the HL account for me, then he went and died suddenly before getting chance to explain anything.
I was going to just leave the money there in the funds he picked for me and invest "new" money in something I can understand, e.g. a vanguard lifestrategy and work out what to do with the HL investments as I read and understand more about analyzing their performance and when to buy / sell etc.
The reason for choosing lifestrategy on cavendish is the fees are lowest and everything I read says to minimise fees. And it was one of the things my dad told me to do when I started talking about investing regularly.
Edited by was8v on Saturday 20th October 11:31
My suggestion would be take a little time to explore options before doing anything. For example I opened an account with Cavendish because of the low fees but quickly found that the amount I have in and the way I was planning on feeding money in made Cavendish more expensive than some other options.
Equally you can find you're doing a lot of homework over what might come down to £100/year on £70K of investment in which case.
I see a lot of people who spend more time quibbling over 0.1% on management fees than they do their actual holdings, maybe because management fees are visible and typically fixed/known, not sure
Just to re-iterate there are tons of resources available so don't rush into anything.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Sorry for your loss. Your dad was right around fees but it does depend on a combination of the amount you hold, the type of holding, and the way you invest i.e. infrequent lump sums or investing automatically every month.
My suggestion would be take a little time to explore options before doing anything. For example I opened an account with Cavendish because of the low fees but quickly found that the amount I have in and the way I was planning on feeding money in made Cavendish more expensive than some other options.
Equally you can find you're doing a lot of homework over what might come down to £100/year on £70K of investment in which case.
I see a lot of people who spend more time quibbling over 0.1% on management fees than they do their actual holdings, maybe because management fees are visible and typically fixed/known, not sure
Just to re-iterate there are tons of resources available so don't rush into anything.
Good points. My profile was fine for Cavendish - it was a few years ago, mind - but OP needs to think from his own perspective.My suggestion would be take a little time to explore options before doing anything. For example I opened an account with Cavendish because of the low fees but quickly found that the amount I have in and the way I was planning on feeding money in made Cavendish more expensive than some other options.
Equally you can find you're doing a lot of homework over what might come down to £100/year on £70K of investment in which case.
I see a lot of people who spend more time quibbling over 0.1% on management fees than they do their actual holdings, maybe because management fees are visible and typically fixed/known, not sure
Just to re-iterate there are tons of resources available so don't rush into anything.
JulianPH said:
(their is no charge for the sale of units)
It's not huge, but https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/fund-and-... says"How to pay charges
There’s no need to remember to make any payments. Each month we’ll automatically take charges from cash in your account.
If there’s not enough cash in your account, we’ll sell some of your investments to cover charges. We'll charge £1.50 per deal if we have to do this."
If that translates to a deal every month it would be near trivial, but still annoying.
xeny said:
It's not huge, but https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/fund-and-... says
"How to pay charges
There’s no need to remember to make any payments. Each month we’ll automatically take charges from cash in your account.
If there’s not enough cash in your account, we’ll sell some of your investments to cover charges. We'll charge £1.50 per deal if we have to do this."
If that translates to a deal every month it would be near trivial, but still annoying.
Naughty HL. That is sneaky and from what I can see Fidelity don't do that."How to pay charges
There’s no need to remember to make any payments. Each month we’ll automatically take charges from cash in your account.
If there’s not enough cash in your account, we’ll sell some of your investments to cover charges. We'll charge £1.50 per deal if we have to do this."
If that translates to a deal every month it would be near trivial, but still annoying.
JulianPH said:
Naughty HL. That is sneaky and from what I can see Fidelity don't do that.
Correct. Fidelity don’t charge any fees for buying or selling fund units. Service fees are paid out of any available cash in your account, and if that’s not enough they’ll sell units (free of charge) from your largest fund holding to top up or pay the whole service charge.Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
JulianPH said:
Naughty HL. That is sneaky and from what I can see Fidelity don't do that.
Correct. Fidelity don’t charge any fees for buying or selling fund units. Service fees are paid out of any available cash in your account, and if that’s not enough they’ll sell units (free of charge) from your largest fund holding to top up or pay the whole service charge.
Fidelity through Cavendish has no initial charge for monthly savings and is nearly half the price of HL for ongoing fees at 0.25% (reduced to 0.15% on the entire balance if you have £200k - one third of the HL fee).
This was my reasoning for getting away from HL.
I'll be a regular passive investor so as long as I get the right funds I just want to minimise fees.
Fidelity via cavendish is looking likely.
As an aside, can anyone explain why one would have funds (etfs?) in an X-O ISA? What situation are they best for?
I'll be a regular passive investor so as long as I get the right funds I just want to minimise fees.
Fidelity via cavendish is looking likely.
As an aside, can anyone explain why one would have funds (etfs?) in an X-O ISA? What situation are they best for?
Edited by was8v on Sunday 21st October 11:11
was8v said:
This was my reasoning for getting away from HL.
I'll be a regular passive investor so as long as I get the right funds I just want to minimise fees.
Fidelity via cavendish is looking likely.
As an aside, can anyone explain why one would have funds (etfs?) in an X-O ISA? What situation are they best for?
I'm not sure I understand that. You will be a regular passive investor as long as you get the right funds and then ask why one would have funds/ETFs...?!I'll be a regular passive investor so as long as I get the right funds I just want to minimise fees.
Fidelity via cavendish is looking likely.
As an aside, can anyone explain why one would have funds (etfs?) in an X-O ISA? What situation are they best for?
Edited by was8v on Sunday 21st October 11:11
ETFs are very low cost passive funds, therefore I would have thought exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious!
JulianPH said:
I'm not sure I understand that. You will be a regular passive investor as long as you get the right funds and then ask why one would have funds/ETFs...?!
ETFs are very low cost passive funds, therefore I would have thought exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious!
Sorry maybe i wasn't clear.ETFs are very low cost passive funds, therefore I would have thought exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious!
My dad had both HL accounts and an X-O account.
I was asking why would he bother with the X-O account? Why not just buy the funds through HL...? The only reaosn I can see is if he planned to trade the funds frequently. Which he didn't.
was8v said:
JulianPH said:
I'm not sure I understand that. You will be a regular passive investor as long as you get the right funds and then ask why one would have funds/ETFs...?!
ETFs are very low cost passive funds, therefore I would have thought exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious!
Sorry maybe i wasn't clear.ETFs are very low cost passive funds, therefore I would have thought exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious!
My dad had both HL accounts and an X-O account.
I was asking why would he bother with the X-O account? Why not just buy the funds through HL...? The only reaosn I can see is if he planned to trade the funds frequently. Which he didn't.
Both accounts are XO. It is perhaps the case that only HL make this clear.
If it was not clear you could be able to make a claim. You would have to have obviously made a loss though...
was8v said:
Sorry maybe i wasn't clear.
My dad had both HL accounts and an X-O account.
I was asking why would he bother with the X-O account? Why not just buy the funds through HL...? The only reaosn I can see is if he planned to trade the funds frequently. Which he didn't.
Are X-O’s fees lower for ETFs?My dad had both HL accounts and an X-O account.
I was asking why would he bother with the X-O account? Why not just buy the funds through HL...? The only reaosn I can see is if he planned to trade the funds frequently. Which he didn't.
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