E65/66 VS S-Class?

[shakka219]

Hi all,

I've been looking at buying an 06-08 7 Series, I prefer the facelifted models!

I've seen a few around 90-130K on the clock for between £4-5K, I really like the look of the facelifted versions and they drive beautifully.

However, I have also seen a lot of the W220 S Classes knocking round, they seem to have depreciated MUCH heavier than the E65, with some examples going for under £2K!

Am I right in thinking that the E65 is the next gen from the W220, and in fact the BMW counterpart to the W220 is actually the E38?

The E65 seems to be a much more modern car, styling, interior, technology? So am i right, is the newer W221 actually the equivalent Mercedes to the E65/66

[D4MJT]

shakka219 said:

Hi all,

I've been looking at buying an 06-08 7 Series, I prefer the facelifted models!

I've seen a few around 90-130K on the clock for between £4-5K, I really like the look of the facelifted versions and they drive beautifully.

However, I have also seen a lot of the W220 S Classes knocking round, they seem to have depreciated MUCH heavier than the E65, with some examples going for under £2K!

Am I right in thinking that the E65 is the next gen from the W220, and in fact the BMW counterpart to the W220 is actually the E38?

The E65 seems to be a much more modern car, styling, interior, technology? So am i right, is the newer W221 actually the equivalent Mercedes to the E65/66

I ran an E66 730Ld for a few years before I changed to my 1 series. It was a wonderful thing to waft around in, however mine was fairly troublesome to maintain, although this was mainly down to the diesel engine, and I suspect I was rather unlucky, as I had more issues than most.

I'd have another, but you really want to hold out for a well specified car, there is a vast difference between a basic car and one specced up with nicer leather, comfort seats, heated seats and wheel, upgraded audio, nav and bluetooth, rear entertainment etc.

The most reliable of all is probably the 3.0 NA petrol, however it's the least powerful and probably least suited engine to the size of the car. The diesel can have injector and EGR / DPF issues, swirl flaps need blanking off as they disintegrate. The petrol V8's suffer from valve stem seals breaking down and oil usage.

It's worth checking the gearbox operates nicely, you don't want the revs to fluctuate on the motorway when maintaining a steady speed in gear, this is a symptom of the torque converter lock up clutch on it's way out, and a large bill.

They're complex things to maintain, to run one anywhere near cheaply you need to be confident with spanners and a laptop, larger items require coding to the car, injectors, changing the battery etc, and fault finding etc.

Mine in 2 years and 40k miles had off the top of my head:

Head off and helicoiled due to 3 snapped exhaust manifold studs
upper and lower timing chains at the same time for maintenance
EGR replaced
MAF replaced
starter motor replaced
battery replaced
injector replaced
swirl flaps blanked
rear brake lines replaced
rear arm bushes replaced
alternator replaced
propshaft giubo replaced
gearbox mechatronic unit replaced and oil changed
crank pulley replaced

Bar the head and timing chains none of it was particularly challenging, but it was getting pretty tiring with the frequency of things needing replaced.

That said, knowing people who have ran the S Class, I'd have the E65/66 every time, as they appear to be just as fragile and yet more expensive to maintain from the one's I've known.

[AppleJuice]

E65Ross!

---

E38 = W220
E65 = W220/W221
F01 = W221
G11 = W222

[shakka219]

D4MJT said:

I ran an E66 730Ld for a few years before I changed to my 1 series. It was a wonderful thing to waft around in, however mine was fairly troublesome to maintain, although this was mainly down to the diesel engine, and I suspect I was rather unlucky, as I had more issues than most.

I'd have another, but you really want to hold out for a well specified car, there is a vast difference between a basic car and one specced up with nicer leather, comfort seats, heated seats and wheel, upgraded audio, nav and bluetooth, rear entertainment etc.

The most reliable of all is probably the 3.0 NA petrol, however it's the least powerful and probably least suited engine to the size of the car. The diesel can have injector and EGR / DPF issues, swirl flaps need blanking off as they disintegrate. The petrol V8's suffer from valve stem seals breaking down and oil usage.

It's worth checking the gearbox operates nicely, you don't want the revs to fluctuate on the motorway when maintaining a steady speed in gear, this is a symptom of the torque converter lock up clutch on it's way out, and a large bill.

They're complex things to maintain, to run one anywhere near cheaply you need to be confident with spanners and a laptop, larger items require coding to the car, injectors, changing the battery etc, and fault finding etc.

Mine in 2 years and 40k miles had off the top of my head:

Head off and helicoiled due to 3 snapped exhaust manifold studs
upper and lower timing chains at the same time for maintenance
EGR replaced
MAF replaced
starter motor replaced
battery replaced
injector replaced
swirl flaps blanked
rear brake lines replaced
rear arm bushes replaced
alternator replaced
propshaft giubo replaced
gearbox mechatronic unit replaced and oil changed
crank pulley replaced

Bar the head and timing chains none of it was particularly challenging, but it was getting pretty tiring with the frequency of things needing replaced.

That said, knowing people who have ran the S Class, I'd have the E65/66 every time, as they appear to be just as fragile and yet more expensive to maintain from the one's I've known.

Wow... that is certainly a hefty bill, and as they are around 10-12 years old now it'd probably even more of a risk. Maybe I should reconsider!

In regards to my question though, would you say your E65 was more in line with the W220 or the W221?

I cannot understand if it's from the E46 era or the E60/E90 era?

[D4MJT]

shakka219 said:

Wow... that is certainly a hefty bill, and as they are around 10-12 years old now it'd probably even more of a risk. Maybe I should reconsider!

In regards to my question though, would you say your E65 was more in line with the W220 or the W221?

I cannot understand if it's from the E46 era or the E60/E90 era?

Technically it's from both, early E65's are 2002, they ran till 2008.

I'll see if I can dig my thread out for you to have a look at.

EDIT:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

EDIT EDIT : It also seems I stripped the thread and all the pictures, probably during the photobucket fiasco, so it's no use really

Edited by D4MJT on Monday 22 October 12:51

[AppleJuice]

The E65 was from the E60/E90 era

[shakka219]

AppleJuice said:

The E65 was from the E60/E90 era

Yes, I thought so, thanks.

It does have a certain look of the E46 about it which confused me, especially the headlights pre-facelift, but the post facelift version looks much more like an E60, and the tail lights almost look like an E92 Coupe.

[ericmcn]

if you want a luxurious lump of a barge get a Lexus, most likely a BMW/Merc equivalent will have you spending the purchase price on repairs fairly sharpish. Temptation is high but you need to see beyond the advertisment as once these lumps go wrong you wont be spending 3 figures on repairs.

[alec.e]

Also worth looking at a XJ? Not got the amount of tech as the 7 Series, but a great car, much pefer it to the W220 imo.

[shakka219]

ericmcn said:

if you want a luxurious lump of a barge get a Lexus, most likely a BMW/Merc equivalent will have you spending the purchase price on repairs fairly sharpish. Temptation is high but you need to see beyond the advertisment as once these lumps go wrong you wont be spending 3 figures on repairs.

It is something that worries me this, as I am planning to get rid of my current car (A5 Cabrio) in place of it, with the drop in fuel economy I am concerned about the cost of repairs.

I've never been a fan of Lexus though i'm afraid, I drove an IS220D a few years ago and hated it, perhaps it's still worth looking at the other models though.

[philipbrown123]

Another vote for Lexus here. I bought a 2007 150K miles Lexus LS460 for £6000 beginning of last year. I have added 30K miles averaging 27mpg and only routine servicing, 1 rocker cover gasket and 4 new tyres in that time.

[shakka219]

philipbrown123 said:

Another vote for Lexus here. I bought a 2007 150K miles Lexus LS460 for £6000 beginning of last year. I have added 30K miles averaging 27mpg and only routine servicing, 1 rocker cover gasket and 4 new tyres in that time.

Yes, they do seem nice.

The reason I am looking is I have a new job and a longer commute and wanted a big comfortable car for it, however.

After seeing the amount of talk regarding maintenance issues and things going wrong, and a significant drop in fuel economy (currently getting 38MPG on average in my 2.0TDI A5, I reckon I will probably be lucky to get 30MPG on average in a 730D) I actually think it would end up costing me a hell of a lot of money to end up with a much older and more unreliable car.

It seems a lot of these luxury barge buyers have some serious cash to cover themselves for repairs and fuel, but being totally honest I don't want to end up taking the risk as i'd rather the money stay in my bank!

Looks like i'll stick with what I have got for now! Might wait until the current F02 is a little cheaper in a few years as they actually seem to get reasonable economy.

[ZX10R NIN]

Go for the next size down & you can land yourself a nice comfortable reliable set of wheels that won't break your bank, also if your commute is longer you'll see better economy.

I'd say the CLS320cdi is a very good shout at this price point.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

An E320 will be a great place to spend a lot of time the drivetrain is reliable & you'll see mid to low 40's on a run.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

The Lexus is a good car but it does feel a step down interior wise they feel a step down imo.

[GreatGranny]

Isn't the A5 comfortable enough?

I sometimes do my commute (120 miles round trip) in my wife's A4 Cabriolet and it's great for the job.

Personally I wouldn't swap a newer and potentially more reliable car for an older barge with big bills potential.

[shakka219]

GreatGranny said:

Isn't the A5 comfortable enough?

I sometimes do my commute (120 miles round trip) in my wife's A4 Cabriolet and it's great for the job.

Personally, I wouldn't swap a newer and potentially more reliable car for an older barge with big bills potential.

Don't get me wrong the A5 is a great car, but it's not a fantastic motorway cruiser, it's running on the 19" Y designs and there is a lot of wind noise at motorway speeds, also I feel it's a little colder now it's hitting winter.

Also, the size of wheels means it tends to tramline, thus it's hard to sit back and relax on a 50+ mile trip

But you're right, the Audi is very reliable, I mean I've also had an A4 and A6 all of the same generation and they have never had ANY issues, I even ran the A4 up to 150K, only major thing was the cambelt which I changed at 80K, other than that just general maintenance, servicing, ball joints etc.

The 7 series seems like a different animal, and I don't know where I stand with BMW's.

[ericmcn]

shakka219 said:

It is something that worries me this, as I am planning to get rid of my current car (A5 Cabrio) in place of it, with the drop in fuel economy I am concerned about the cost of repairs.

I've never been a fan of Lexus though i'm afraid, I drove an IS220D a few years ago and hated it, perhaps it's still worth looking at the other models though.

I did not have a IS220D in mind, which is frankly insulting to Lexus. I had barges like the LS430/460 in mind - cars fit for a king and good for hundreds of thousands of miles (mostly trouble free). 220d, LOL

[FlatToTheMat]

shakka219 said:

Don't get me wrong the A5 is a great car, but it's not a fantastic motorway cruiser, it's running on the 19" Y designs and there is a lot of wind noise at motorway speeds, also I feel it's a little colder now it's hitting winter.

Also, the size of wheels means it tends to tramline, thus it's hard to sit back and relax on a 50+ mile trip

What about buying some small winter wheels as a stop gap, 17s with a nice tall sidewall would soften the ride up a treat and likely reduce the roadnoise and tramlining.

Eg these with 225/50/R17 tyres:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Audi-A5-S-Line-...f:0

Also suprised to hear that theres lots of road noise, id have thought theyd be pretty well isolated in that regard. Maybe try and isolate wind leak around the windows, hood and doors

Edited by FlatToTheMat on Wednesday 24th October 09:08

[shakka219]

ericmcn said:

I did not have a IS220D in mind, which is frankly insulting to Lexus. I had barges like the LS430/460 in mind - cars fit for a king and good for hundreds of thousands of miles (mostly trouble free). 220d, LOL

Yes, unfortunately I have no other experience with Lexus to draw on. Might be worth finding one of these locally and taking a look!

[shakka219]

FlatToTheMat said:

What about buying some small winter wheels as a stop gap, 17s with a nice tall sidewall would soften the ride up a treat and likely reduce the roadnoise and tramlining.

Eg these with 225/50/R17 tyres:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Audi-A5-S-Line-...f:0

Also surprised to hear that there's lots of road noise, id have thought they'd be pretty well isolated in that regard. Maybe try and isolate wind leak around the windows, hood and doors

Edited by FlatToTheMat on Wednesday 24th October 09:08

That's actually a very good idea! Hadn't considered this before, my A4 had 17's and was very comfortable.

In regards to wind noise, unfortunately, it seems to come with the soft top territory, don't get me wrong, compared to my old Z4 it's almost on par with a standard hardtop for lack of road noise, but when at 70-80 on the motorway you can really start to notice it, weirdly enough with the roof down its actually amazingly free of wind, with the windows up and wind deflector on you can still have a normal conversation at 70MPH!

[ericmcn]

shakka219 said:

Yes, unfortunately I have no other experience with Lexus to draw on. Might be worth finding one of these locally and taking a look!

am veering towards a barge myself, could be anything from a 430,460 or even a 600. With a Lexus you know what to expect, unrivaled luxury and as long as they have a good record history they ought to be trouble free or certainly more trouble free than an equivalent German car would offer - and dont mention a 220d again for the love of god - what were they thinking of.