Can't get gearbox input shaft in place

[robbocop33]

Been having trouble with third gear in my Megane 225 for a while, decided to take a couple of brave pills and fit another box on my tod! :-)
Anyway, gearbox removal went ok, with jacks from below, plus with the help of gravity and swearing it dropped.
Getting it back up went better than expected, (incidentally i fitted new clutch too while box was out) the box is aligned to the engine, i have the two guide pins to align the box sort of in positio, and a couple more bolts partially in.
Trouble is i have about a 1cm gap at the bottom, and at the top about 2 inches or more.
It looks like the box just needs lifted at the outer end and it will slot in, but lifting the end of the box does nothing!
I obviously used a clutch alignment tool. I really thought when i was under the box and it started to pull together the top would kind of follow?
Should i pull it out again and try at a different angle? ooer missus.

[GreenV8S]

robbocop33 said:

Been having trouble with third gear in my Megane 225 for a while, decided to take a couple of brave pills and fit another box on my tod! :-)
Anyway, gearbox removal went ok, with jacks from below, plus with the help of gravity and swearing it dropped.
Getting it back up went better than expected, (incidentally i fitted new clutch too while box was out) the box is aligned to the engine, i have the two guide pins to align the box sort of in positio, and a couple more bolts partially in.
Trouble is i have about a 1cm gap at the bottom, and at the top about 2 inches or more.
It looks like the box just needs lifted at the outer end and it will slot in, but lifting the end of the box does nothing!
I obviously used a clutch alignment tool. I really thought when i was under the box and it started to pull together the top would kind of follow?
Should i pull it out again and try at a different angle? ooer missus.

Obviously they need to be parallel, and aligned vertically and sideways, and both shafts need to be rotated so that their splines engage. If the gaps at the top and bottom are as you describe, clearly they are nowhere near parallel. If lifting the end of the box doesn't fix the alignment, you aren't doing it right. Maybe it's fouling something and you aren't actually lifting the part you think you are.

[Penelope Stopit]

GreenV8S said:

Obviously they need to be parallel, and aligned vertically and sideways, and both shafts need to be rotated so that their splines engage. If the gaps at the top and bottom are as you describe, clearly they are nowhere near parallel. If lifting the end of the box doesn't fix the alignment, you aren't doing it right. Maybe it's fouling something and you aren't actually lifting the part you think you are.

As above, I had a nightmare fitting a box to an engine that was out of the vehicle, having ensured the clutch plate was centered ok I fitted studding in the boxes mounting holes, fitted the box over the studding and turned the shaft until it went in

[GreenV8S]

While you're fighting with this make sure you avoid any temptation to use brute force. The spigot bearing is very delicate and easy to destroy. Once the alignment is right it should slide in easily, with just the force needed to overcome the friction from whatever you're using to support the weight of the box.

[robbocop33]

Penelope Stopit said:

As above, I had a nightmare fitting a box to an engine that was out of the vehicle, having ensured the clutch plate was centered ok I fitted studding in the boxes mounting holes, fitted the box over the studding and turned the shaft until it went in

I actually just had that thought when i was walking the dog there, fit bolts about two times the length of the originals all round, then pull box out along these bolts, then go in again,giving the crank little turns.

[Penelope Stopit]

robbocop33 said:

I actually just had that thought when i was walking the dog there, fit bolts about two times the length of the originals all round, then pull box out along these bolts, then go in again,giving the crank little turns.

Mans best friend wins the day
Good luck

[stevieturbo]

robbocop33 said:

I actually just had that thought when i was walking the dog there, fit bolts about two times the length of the originals all round, then pull box out along these bolts, then go in again,giving the crank little turns.

Using the bolts to pull the box is, is absolutely NOT what you should be doing,

Remove the box and find out what is not correctly installed/aligned. Fix that, and when the box will simply slide on until it's a few mm away....then use the bolts.

[robbocop33]

stevieturbo said:

Using the bolts to pull the box is, is absolutely NOT what you should be doing,

Remove the box and find out what is not correctly installed/aligned. Fix that, and when the box will simply slide on until it's a few mm away....then use the bolts.

Sorry, i didn't mean i was going to use them to pull it in,, just to increase the chances of it going in straight, just as guides! :-)

[227bhp]

robbocop33 said:

stevieturbo said:

Using the bolts to pull the box is, is absolutely NOT what you should be doing,

Remove the box and find out what is not correctly installed/aligned. Fix that, and when the box will simply slide on until it's a few mm away....then use the bolts.

Sorry, i didn't mean i was going to use them to pull it in,, just to increase the chances of it going in straight, just as guides! :-)

To be fair that is what you wrote (that you were just going to push it on).

Edited by 227bhp on Friday 26th October 23:00

[paintman]

Penelope Stopit said:

GreenV8S said:

Obviously they need to be parallel, and aligned vertically and sideways, and both shafts need to be rotated so that their splines engage. If the gaps at the top and bottom are as you describe, clearly they are nowhere near parallel. If lifting the end of the box doesn't fix the alignment, you aren't doing it right. Maybe it's fouling something and you aren't actually lifting the part you think you are.

As above, I had a nightmare fitting a box to an engine that was out of the vehicle, having ensured the clutch plate was centered ok I fitted studding in the boxes mounting holes, fitted the box over the studding and turned the shaft until it went in

Done that for years. Makes it so much easier to line things up & less risk of the box slipping off the jack whilst you're pulling it about.
Either lengths of studding (B&Q etc) or for heavier items where studding can bend a couple of beheaded bolts. Cut a slot in the end of your studs to take a screwdriver blade & once all is aligned & pushed together just fit a couple of the other bolts then remove the studs & fit the bolts.
The Land Rover special tool for refitting an LT230 transfer box to a gearbox on the car is basically just 3 beheaded bolts with slot & taper on the unthreaded end. Trying to do it without is likely to damage the input shaft seal. You can buy the genuine 'special tool' for just under £45

[robbocop33]

Bloody typical, 2 whole days i've tried to get this in, today, i open my garage armed with 8 extra long bolts to put in the place of the normal bellhousing to box bolts. Backed the gearbox back out an inch or 2,rammed a crowbar in between the chassis and the gearbox end with my right hand,and with a screwdriver in my left hand carefully turned the flywheel around a little at a time while levering the crowbar, literally exactly one chuffing minute it took!
A little satisfying schlonk noise(quite accurate that for a description lol) and it slid in!! Bloody hell, never again, to think i had a local guy offering to do all this for 200 quid! I should have bitten his arm off! But, there's the satisfaction of doing it all by myself! :-)

[PositronicRay]

robbocop33 said:

Bloody typical, 2 whole days i've tried to get this in, today, i open my garage armed with 8 extra long bolts to put in the place of the normal bellhousing to box bolts. Backed the gearbox back out an inch or 2,rammed a crowbar in between the chassis and the gearbox end with my right hand,and with a screwdriver in my left hand carefully turned the flywheel around a little at a time while levering the crowbar, literally exactly one chuffing minute it took!
A little satisfying schlonk noise(quite accurate that for a description lol) and it slid in!! Bloody hell, never again, to think i had a local guy offering to do all this for 200 quid! I should have bitten his arm off! But, there's the satisfaction of doing it all by myself! :-)

Well done.


I had similar, starting to lose the light & knackered, one last mighty shove before I was going to call it a day and the thing went home. Pleased as punch, managed to get the car ready for work the following day.

[227bhp]

You've really been pushing a gearbox on for two whole days?

[robbocop33]

227bhp said:

You've really been pushing a gearbox on for two whole days?

Ok, i'll expand a bit since you want to nitpick. I meant two whole days'OF THE TIME I HAD AVAILABLE ON THE AFOREMENTIONED TWO DAY PERIOD'So some of the 48 hour period in question was indeed spent sleeping during the night(no rumpy-pumpy, gearbox oil fumes a turn-off seemingly!? ) , having my breakfast, walking the dog on four occasions etc also having my dinner, watching the tv in the evenings amongst other various activities.
I am 'so' sorry i blatantly lied on a public forum, for trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, duping 'very few' of you(i hope') into thinking i had spent a non-stop 48 hour period on fitting a gearbox.
And to the rest of you who weren't in the least bothered by my faux-pas, thank you! And thanks ofcourse to those who 'contributed' in helping! So glad i fixed it before work this weekend.

[GreenV8S]

robbocop33 said:

literally exactly one chuffing minute it took!

Amazing how much difference a slight change in your technique can make. Imagine how smug you're going to feel next time when it slots straight in at the first attempt!

[Penelope Stopit]

Gearboxes are a horrible job when having no help
Glad you got it fitted ok
Give the dog a pat on the back

[227bhp]

You must have trapped your sense of humour in the bellhousing too

[robbocop33]

GreenV8S said:

Amazing how much difference a slight change in your technique can make. Imagine how smug you're going to feel next time when it slots straight in at the first attempt!

It was sheer bloody mindedness i done this myself, i have spent so much on the car lately that i started to resent the car, i just said to myself no, i'm not going to spend hundreds getting someone to do it, and no i'm not going hire/buy a hoist for the engine or gearbox either,i'm using the jacks i have! you pile of French poop! :-)