Insurance value question
Discussion
I've been lucky enough to land a Norton V4SS one of the 200 they're making. All well and good but these normally appreciate from collection. Let's say for argument's sake I pay 10k and the only way I could replace it is by buying a secondhand one for 15k.
My insurers are saying they'll only pay what I paid if it got written off -- and no more. Because that would apparently give betterment.
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it. I'm not getting betterment, indeed I'm getting an asset worth 15k replaced with 10k of cash according to their calculations which is a loss of 30%.
Where is the legal position on this, and is this normal insurance practice?
My insurers are saying they'll only pay what I paid if it got written off -- and no more. Because that would apparently give betterment.
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it. I'm not getting betterment, indeed I'm getting an asset worth 15k replaced with 10k of cash according to their calculations which is a loss of 30%.
Where is the legal position on this, and is this normal insurance practice?
No, they are wrong, and they don't understand what betterment is. According to their theory, if you won a vehicle in a competition, they couldn't pay you anything because of betterment??? Utter tripe.
The vehicle needs to be insured for the market value, regardless of what you paid. As that increases you need to keep updating your cover and pay any additional premium if required.
If you have a vehicle worth £15K, you should be able to claim £15K. Regardless if the vehicle cost you £10K or £20K. £15K is your financial loss on the day of the claim, because that's what you could have sold it for.
The vehicle needs to be insured for the market value, regardless of what you paid. As that increases you need to keep updating your cover and pay any additional premium if required.
If you have a vehicle worth £15K, you should be able to claim £15K. Regardless if the vehicle cost you £10K or £20K. £15K is your financial loss on the day of the claim, because that's what you could have sold it for.
I remember back yonder the insurers used 'Glasses Guide' and whatever was in there, that was it. But if Glass said your vehicle was worth 5,000 quid and you had marked the papers valuing it at 1,000, then 1,000 you would get.
If the reverse, you valued it at 6,000 and Glass 5,000, you would still be offered no more than 5.
I'm not sure if Glass covers bikes? Point here is you need to know how they will be judging the market value of the bike and what they use to get that figure.
If the reverse, you valued it at 6,000 and Glass 5,000, you would still be offered no more than 5.
I'm not sure if Glass covers bikes? Point here is you need to know how they will be judging the market value of the bike and what they use to get that figure.
You need to speak to an insurer who understands these bikes and values...so not a mainstream insurer.
Main problem is many do not do agreed value on something under 1 year old.
We have this problem on new Porsche GTs and Ferraris which fetch different premiums over list. Check out the forums for guidance on insurers.
NFU are generally very competitive and give a top service.
Main problem is many do not do agreed value on something under 1 year old.
We have this problem on new Porsche GTs and Ferraris which fetch different premiums over list. Check out the forums for guidance on insurers.
NFU are generally very competitive and give a top service.
You need Agrred Value cover. You will probably need a valuation from a specialist bike club to get it.
Don’t forget that your bike might be worth £15k on day one, but but by the end of the year Day 365 when it is stolen it might be worth £16000. Then if you take 3 months to finalise the claim and find another one it might have gone up yo £17000. So bear that in mind.
Don’t forget that your bike might be worth £15k on day one, but but by the end of the year Day 365 when it is stolen it might be worth £16000. Then if you take 3 months to finalise the claim and find another one it might have gone up yo £17000. So bear that in mind.
Agreed value policy. I have one for the TVR, if it’s scrapped, there is no argument about its value as it is agreed with the underwriter at policy inception
It’s a bit of a faff, needed a supporting valuation letter from the TVR club, 10-12 decent hi def images & it cost me about 20 quid more than a normal market value policy but well worth it in my opinion if it’s not easy to replace.
It’s a bit of a faff, needed a supporting valuation letter from the TVR club, 10-12 decent hi def images & it cost me about 20 quid more than a normal market value policy but well worth it in my opinion if it’s not easy to replace.
He doesn't need agreed value. Agreed value is for classic cars, modified cars and the like whereby values vary hugely based on condition etc.
He just needs a market value policy, because market value is all he wants. He just needs to ensure his declared value is updated when required to note changes in the market and an a half decent insurer that understands this has got f
k all to do with betterment.
He just needs a market value policy, because market value is all he wants. He just needs to ensure his declared value is updated when required to note changes in the market and an a half decent insurer that understands this has got f
k all to do with betterment. The value doesn't matter at the time of getting the policy, just tell them its worth 20k, if its written off an assessor with work out how much its worth and how much the insurer should give you.
I had a car written off last year, had it on insurance for £5k insurers ended up giving me £6.5k because you know me not being an expert on the value of a car id had for 3 years, id got it wrong.
I had a car written off last year, had it on insurance for £5k insurers ended up giving me £6.5k because you know me not being an expert on the value of a car id had for 3 years, id got it wrong.
Foliage said:
The value doesn't matter at the time of getting the policy, just tell them its worth 20k, if its written off an assessor with work out how much its worth and how much the insurer should give you.
You are right, but for some reason an idiot at the insurance co has got it into their brain that the OP can't be paid out more than his purchase price...because....betterment 
I don't know what if any training these button monkeys get before they are unleashed on the general public.
Majority of market value policies have an invoice cost ceiling value in the event of total loss.
Good luck trying to obtain a higher figure from the insurers with these policies.
Agreed value policy or making the insurers totally aware of the premium value at policy inception is the most appropriate.
Good luck trying to obtain a higher figure from the insurers with these policies.
Agreed value policy or making the insurers totally aware of the premium value at policy inception is the most appropriate.
supermono said:
I've been lucky enough to land a Norton V4SS one of the 200 they're making. All well and good but these normally appreciate from collection. Let's say for argument's sake I pay 10k and the only way I could replace it is by buying a secondhand one for 15k.
My insurers are saying they'll only pay what I paid if it got written off -- and no more.
Then find an insurer who give you what you want.My insurers are saying they'll only pay what I paid if it got written off -- and no more.
supermono said:
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it.
Doesn't work like that. You'll go some to find any policy that'll pay out more than it's deemed to be worth immediately before the collision. If the only other one that's available is ridiculously overpriced - or there isn't another available - then it's not the insurer's problem.Some policies will do invoice value on something <12mo, simply because that's normally better than "pre-collision value", due to depreciation. What you want is an agreed value policy, and keep on top of the agreed value...
av185 said:
Majority of market value policies have an invoice cost ceiling value in the event of total loss.
I have never seen that in any policy I've had. Current policy pays market value. Or my declared value, whichever is the lower. If I manage to buy a car for £10K that's really worth £15K, (because I'm buying it off a family member at a discount or whatever) so long as I declare the value at £15K, then that's what I will get. Providing it is worth £15K. TooMany2cvs said:
supermono said:
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it.
Doesn't work like that. You'll go some to find any policy that'll pay out more than it's deemed to be worth immediately before the collision. Regardless of whether the insurance company actually pay the market value or not, why would they even ask what you paid for it?
I've got several vehicles insured, some on agreed value policies but on none of them was I asked by the insurance company how much I actually paid for them.
I've got several vehicles insured, some on agreed value policies but on none of them was I asked by the insurance company how much I actually paid for them.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
TooMany2cvs said:
supermono said:
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it.
Doesn't work like that. You'll go some to find any policy that'll pay out more than it's deemed to be worth immediately before the collision. TooMany2cvs said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
TooMany2cvs said:
supermono said:
My argument is all I want is restoration to where I was -- with a secondhand V4SS. If that cost them 100k to buy, so be it.
Doesn't work like that. You'll go some to find any policy that'll pay out more than it's deemed to be worth immediately before the collision. A205GTI said:
If I remember rightly isn't this the argument Rowan Atkinson had on his Mclaren ie the value vs the right off as prices had increased.
Similar but not quite. There wasn't much of an argument. They were going to write it off, but when they found out the current market value, it was easily worth their while fixing it for £910K. But yes, in so much as the list price new had little to do with the value come accident time.
I remain unconvinced on the market value issue as spouted by a few on here. And so do most with premium value cars as discussed at length on the Porsche GT (e.g. cost new £140k value £185k) and Ferrari forums.
I know for a fact that most mainstream insurers would not pay over list for a vehicle on a non agreed value policy.
Or can those on here saying they would then prove and give the relevant policy wording?
Consequently most have insured with specialist insurers such as Hiscox Chubb Mannings etc etc at considerable cost on an agreed value basis.
I know for a fact that most mainstream insurers would not pay over list for a vehicle on a non agreed value policy.
Or can those on here saying they would then prove and give the relevant policy wording?
Consequently most have insured with specialist insurers such as Hiscox Chubb Mannings etc etc at considerable cost on an agreed value basis.
The Financial Ombudsman has had this to say on the issue of whether the insurer should pay "market value" or purchase price.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140628144925/http://...
https://web.archive.org/web/20140628144925/http://...
Financial Ombudsman said:
In most cases, we assess the market value as the retail price which the consumer would have had to pay for a comparable vehicle at a reputable dealer, immediately before the date of the damage or theft... We are likely to award the consumer the full retail value – even if they inadvertently underestimated the value of the vehicle when filling in the proposal form or luckily bought the vehicle for less than it was worth. And we have seen exceptional cases where a vehicle’s value genuinely rose between the date it was bought and the date of the damage or theft.
(I've linked to an old version of the FOS guidance because they have helpfully made the current version of their website more "user-friendly" by removing much of the useful information; however AFAIK the underlying policy hasn't changed.)Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff