Gas Safety issue / boiler issue in flat purchase

[Carlton Banks]

Folks

Some advice on where I stand on this.

Purchased a property 5 months ago.
Part of the process was for the buyer to submit documentation relating to the gas boiler condition and a safety certificate amongst other stuff.

We had an issue with the boiler last week.

After being checked by my gas engineer, It transpires that the boiler should have been classified at risk as it lacked access panels and other stuff such as a siliconed flue pipe or something.

Furthermore my gas guy has been able to verify with gas safe (?) that the boiler was classified as at risk and should have actually been switched off and the issues rectified but it appears the buyer declined - it appears the buyer was aware of the issues and seemingly submitted the pass to his / my solicitors.

Anyway, long and short of it is a large bull for access panels and other issues.

Is it caveat emptor now and my own fault for not checking or do I have recourse with either my buyer or solicitor ? Annoyed as it’s clear the boiler has had an issue that the buyer knew about!

Thoughts?

[TooMany2cvs]

Carlton Banks said:

Part of the process was for the buyer seller to submit documentation relating to the gas boiler condition and a safety certificate amongst other stuff.

And did they? You took it at face value at the time, rather than commission your own inspection? Caveat emptor.

(BTW, YOU're the buyer...)

Carlton Banks said:

Furthermore my gas guy has been able to verify with gas safe (?) that the boiler was classified as at risk and should have actually been switched off and the issues rectified but it appears the buyer declined

Balls. If a Gas Safe engineer thought it was dangerous, the householder gets no choice in whether it gets taken out of service or not. Was this the same Gas Safe engineer who then went on to sign off a safety cert?

Anyway, Gas Safe would only be able to confirm whether the engineer really was a registered engineer or not. They don't log every single job every single engineer does.

Sounds to me like you've got an engineer who's trying to scaremonger you into replacing your current boiler...

[philip600]

TooMany2cvs said:

Balls. If a Gas Safe engineer thought it was dangerous, the householder gets no choice in whether it gets taken out of service or not. Was this the same Gas Safe engineer who then went on to sign off a safety cert?

Anyway, Gas Safe would only be able to confirm whether the engineer really was a registered engineer or not. They don't log every single job every single engineer does.

Sounds to me like you've got an engineer who's trying to scaremonger you into replacing your current boiler...

With regards your comment the house holder gets no choice whether it gets taken out of service is incorrect. If we find an installation or appliance that is unsafe we must bring the issues to the attention of the responsible person & issue a warning notice listing the reason(s) why it is unsafe & label the appliance or installation as unsafe to use, then depending on the classification we must ask the responsible persons permission to either turn off, if considered At Risk or cap off if considered Immediately Dangerous. We then have to ask the responsible person to sign the warning notice to show they understand why it has been classified unsafe & they have agreed to it either being turned off or capped off. Should the responsible person refuse the appropriate action we have no legal power to cap it off. We must still issue a warning notice & state if they have refused to sign or allow it to be made safe & in the event of it being considered Immediately Dangerous we must then notify the gas supplier that they have refused permission to allow it to be capped, the gas suppliers do have legal rights to gain entry & to cap off the appliance or installation.

[philip600]

Carlton Banks said:

Folks

Some advice on where I stand on this.

Purchased a property 5 months ago.
Part of the process was for the buyer to submit documentation relating to the gas boiler condition and a safety certificate amongst other stuff.

We had an issue with the boiler last week.

After being checked by my gas engineer, It transpires that the boiler should have been classified at risk as it lacked access panels and other stuff such as a siliconed flue pipe or something.

Furthermore my gas guy has been able to verify with gas safe (?) that the boiler was classified as at risk and should have actually been switched off and the issues rectified but it appears the buyer declined - it appears the buyer was aware of the issues and seemingly submitted the pass to his / my solicitors.

Anyway, long and short of it is a large bull for access panels and other issues.

Is it caveat emptor now and my own fault for not checking or do I have recourse with either my buyer or solicitor ? Annoyed as it’s clear the boiler has had an issue that the buyer knew about!

Thoughts?

Without more information It sounds like your installation comes under " flues in voids"
Many installations were installed in flats etc where there was no means of access to allow periodic inspection of the flues fitted in voids within the building. Eventually the regs changed (TB08) and all installations had to be upgraded to allow this. There was a grace period where we just had to advise an upgrade but then a few years ago any installation without access panels were to be considered At Risk & had to be treat accordingly by means of turning off the appliance, labelling it as unsafe & issuing a warning notice.
If your installation comes under this the original registered engineer should have done this & any documents with regards the condition of the installation / appliance should have stated the reasons of why it was unsafe. As I've explained in my other post we have no legal rights to cap off.
If your engineer is correct with his assessment & the documents issued by the other engineer don't state the issues then either the engineer has not picked up on it ( he should have ) or has not followed correct procedures. Either that or the seller has given incorrect or incomplete documents to the solicitor.
I don't know about the legalities of this but you may have some recourse ?

[Toaster Pilot]

Interesting on having to get the signature for At Risk - I had a boiler turned off in a house I was renting for those reasons - I was the “householder” and my landlord wasn’t present (neither was I during the inspection) - who signed it off that lead to me coming home on a freezing December evening to no heating?

Or do you have leeway in that situation?

[philip600]

Toaster Pilot said:

Interesting on having to get the signature for At Risk - I had a boiler turned off in a house I was renting for those reasons - I was the “householder” and my landlord wasn’t present (neither was I during the inspection) - who signed it off that lead to me coming home on a freezing December evening to no heating?

Or do you have leeway in that situation?

If responsible person isn't present or can't be contacted I would always carry out appropriate action, if that means capping off then so be it. I would rather defend why I had turned off or capped without permission than try & explain why someone had been injured or died because I hadn't carried out correct procedures. Personally in 35 years I've only once had someone ( a tenant ) refuse to let me cap due to a bad gas leak, I capped it anyway as it was that bad at which point he locked me in the house & refused to let me leave until I put it back on ! He said if I capped it off he would be cold, I told him better to be a bit cold than a bit dead !!
After a call from the letting agents & a promise to get the leak sorted quickly he did eventually let me leave 😀

[Toaster Pilot]

[Dodsy]

As an aside, interesting reading about getting householders permission to cap off. Thats not how it went diwn in my case. British gas annual inspection i was in the kitchen engineer in the garage. he comes out half an hour later having decided to condemn the boiler then disconnected and capped off the gas . He also cut the power wire in two .

Fault was caused by bad installation 5 years previous by british gas ...... funny how that fault had been there from day 1 but it only got condemned after the warranty expired .

[Pothole]

TooMany2cvs said:

Carlton Banks said:

Part of the process was for the buyer seller to submit documentation relating to the gas boiler condition and a safety certificate amongst other stuff.

And did they? You took it at face value at the time, rather than commission your own inspection? Caveat emptor.

(BTW, YOU're the buyer...)

Exactly this. If them providing docs was "part of the process" why did you complete without the docs?

[chunder27]

I was done like a kipper for years because my landlord did not tell British Gas that a supply was disconnected, meaning I had to pay a standing charge every month because the meter was still there despite the gas never being connected.

I only really found this out after changing electric supplier.

Was hilarious telling the landlord when he gave mo notice!! I ended up getting all my deposit back, plus a bit more, hilariously the cretin worked for the council installing stuff in houses, so surely should have known anyway!

[spaximus]

You may well have some come back but from my experience the hassle and cost will be not worth the effort. Even if you win a case getting payment may be hard as well.

All depends on your view

[SVTRick]

Toaster Pilot said:

Interesting on having to get the signature for At Risk - I had a boiler turned off in a house I was renting for those reasons - I was the “householder” and my landlord wasn’t present (neither was I during the inspection) - who signed it off that lead to me coming home on a freezing December evening to no heating?
Or do you have leeway in that situation?

Better to come home to a cold house than kicking the bucket due to monoxide poisoning.