Working Time Directive
Discussion
As I`m sure some of you know, this latest bit of Eurobollox has now come into force. Does anyone else suffer as a consequence?
I am no longer permitted to work any more than 48hrs per week (average). I used to do at least 60, and as I am hourly paid, and rates have not been adjusted, I could soon be out of pocket.
Shirley it cannot be legal to stop a "decent hard working family"
maintaining a standard of living? Or is it just a back door way of ensuring that there are jobs for immigrants?
rant,rant,rant.
I am no longer permitted to work any more than 48hrs per week (average). I used to do at least 60, and as I am hourly paid, and rates have not been adjusted, I could soon be out of pocket.
Shirley it cannot be legal to stop a "decent hard working family"
maintaining a standard of living? Or is it just a back door way of ensuring that there are jobs for immigrants? rant,rant,rant.
Apparently, it is no longer legal to "opt out" - unless you are self employed. And even that will change in 4 years time.
Interestingly, someone made the point on R4 about the hours political candidates were doing in the run up to the election. Some daft woman from Brussels said it was OK as it was "exceptional circumstances".
The sooner we get away from Europe, the better off this country will be. Anyone know where the mooring ropes are tied? Undo them, and we`ll just drift off quietly (hopefully to somewhere warm)
Also, on the day that we do this, we could give chavs a "Free day trip to France" ticket in the red tops, and leave them all behind.
Interestingly, someone made the point on R4 about the hours political candidates were doing in the run up to the election. Some daft woman from Brussels said it was OK as it was "exceptional circumstances".
The sooner we get away from Europe, the better off this country will be. Anyone know where the mooring ropes are tied? Undo them, and we`ll just drift off quietly (hopefully to somewhere warm)
Also, on the day that we do this, we could give chavs a "Free day trip to France" ticket in the red tops, and leave them all behind.
I think the WTD is excellent. In my line of work people are always taking the piss, and its nice to be able to tell them that you won't be getting up 4 hours after you finished filming, as its illegal.
Absolutely no complaints here whatsoever. People work too hard in this country.
Work to live, not live to work.
Absolutely no complaints here whatsoever. People work too hard in this country.
Work to live, not live to work.
parrot of doom said:
I think the WTD is excellent. In my line of work people are always taking the piss, and its nice to be able to tell them that you won't be getting up 4 hours after you finished filming, as its illegal.
Absolutely no complaints here whatsoever. People work too hard in this country.
Work to live, not live to work.
But if you want to work stupid hours then why should you be stopped ?
thebluemonkey said:
I think the WTD is excellent. In my line of work people are always taking the piss, and its nice to be able to tell them that you won't be getting up 4 hours after you finished filming, as its illegal.
Absolutely no complaints here whatsoever. People work too hard in this country.
Work to live, not live to work.
But if you want to work stupid hours then why should you be stopped ?
Conversely, I've been trying to get the company to agree to me doing a 4-day week. Friday has for some time been our quietest day. Most of our clients finish at lunchtime, we try to avoid driving any distance for jobs as the return journey is always a hassle and we don't get overtime for sitting in traffic jams etc etc.
So I volunteered to take Fridays off, with a 20% pay cut, saving the company not only a day's pay but all their NI contribs etc. and they gibber about it. It's not like I get that much more work done on Friday, all I need to do is have a work schedule that keeps me busy for four days, what's the blasted problem !?
parrot of doom said:
Work to live, not live to work.
Coudn`t agree more, but.............
If you are in a relatively low paid job, the only way to attain the lifestyle you wish for is to work longer hours.
I have no objection to working 60hrs per week minimum, and regularly work in excess of 100. This enables me to have a better life and more "Toys" than those in similar employment.
I repeat that it is totally unfair for some beaurocrat sitting on his fat ass in Brussels(who is paid a fortune from my taxes) to decide when and for how long I can work.
Incidently, this brings up the question of tax. If there are more people working the same number of hours in total, does this not mean less income tax for the government?
As an example, lets say a firm currently has five staff members working 65 hours each, i.e 325 hrs. That same firm now needs 7 staff to cover the same hours. Given that the remuneration is the same (in total), but spread over more people, their personal tax allowances will take away a larger chunk of the chancellors revenue.
I view the WTD as part of the scenario that I posted on the: The Future, and prognostications thereof: thread.
I think it's an attempt by EU governments to uphold standards for Europeans against the forces I described there, and is a very fine balancing act. Likewise the minimum wage, EHRA, and other social policies which exist to defend peoples rights which are very much under threat.
Personally I support it, 48 hrs/week is 2,496 hrs/yr, the highest in Europe. Given that we already have the lowest wages and least rights (easiest to sack) also in Europe, I for one would not like to see us fall further.
I think it's an attempt by EU governments to uphold standards for Europeans against the forces I described there, and is a very fine balancing act. Likewise the minimum wage, EHRA, and other social policies which exist to defend peoples rights which are very much under threat.
Personally I support it, 48 hrs/week is 2,496 hrs/yr, the highest in Europe. Given that we already have the lowest wages and least rights (easiest to sack) also in Europe, I for one would not like to see us fall further.
towman said:
Incidently, this brings up the question of tax. If there are more people working the same number of hours in total, does this not mean less income tax for the government?
As an example, lets say a firm currently has five staff members working 65 hours each, i.e 325 hrs. That same firm now needs 7 staff to cover the same hours. Given that the remuneration is the same (in total), but spread over more people, their personal tax allowances will take away a larger chunk of the chancellors revenue.
Agree partly Steve, but, If the firm takes on more people (as you say costing the firm very little more) then in your scenario that's 2 people less on the dole, living off your taxes. In fact they will now "pay" tax.
What joy, 48 hour a week. Not that I am moaning, I choose to work offshore, but I am currently on a 6 week trip, we do 12 hour shifts each and every day, talk about "Groundhog Day".
I have been on jobs overseas for 90 day contracts doing 12 on and 12 off.
Anyway I take your points gents believe me. On the plus side, when I am "Off", times my own.
I did once work for 14 years in an office and it drove me mad. Take care out there.
I have been on jobs overseas for 90 day contracts doing 12 on and 12 off.
Anyway I take your points gents believe me. On the plus side, when I am "Off", times my own.
I did once work for 14 years in an office and it drove me mad. Take care out there.
8Pack said:
Incidently, this brings up the question of tax. If there are more people working the same number of hours in total, does this not mean less income tax for the government?
As an example, lets say a firm currently has five staff members working 65 hours each, i.e 325 hrs. That same firm now needs 7 staff to cover the same hours. Given that the remuneration is the same (in total), but spread over more people, their personal tax allowances will take away a larger chunk of the chancellors revenue.
Agree partly Steve, but, If the firm takes on more people (as you say costing the firm very little more) then in your scenario that's 2 people less on the dole, living off your taxes. In fact they will now "pay" tax.
No,no,no. In my industry there are not enough truckies. Therefore enterprising agencies are shipping them in from eastern Europe to work for minimum wage for a month before returning home (if they ever go instead of whipping their families over).
Sorry, but it`s complete bollox. Agree with PoD about unscrupulous employers, but there should still be room for an opt out on the part of the employee.
towman said:
towman said:
Incidently, this brings up the question of tax. If there are more people working the same number of hours in total, does this not mean less income tax for the government?
As an example, lets say a firm currently has five staff members working 65 hours each, i.e 325 hrs. That same firm now needs 7 staff to cover the same hours. Given that the remuneration is the same (in total), but spread over more people, their personal tax allowances will take away a larger chunk of the chancellors revenue.
Agree partly Steve, but, If the firm takes on more people (as you say costing the firm very little more) then in your scenario that's 2 people less on the dole, living off your taxes. In fact they will now "pay" tax.
No,no,no. In my industry there are not enough truckies. Therefore enterprising agencies are shipping them in from eastern Europe to work for minimum wage for a month before returning home (if they ever go instead of whipping their families over).
Sorry, but it`s complete bollox. Agree with PoD about unscrupulous employers, but there should still be room for an opt out on the part of the employee.
That's the other side of the coin with a hole that needs to be "plugged" isn't it Steve. The importation of cheap labour at the minimum wage. The going rate should be paid for the job, I just hope that politico's get onto it quick. I know it's also a big issue in Germany at the moment.
How do you go on with hrs though Steve? I thought you were "limited" anyway?
......Jeeessusss! That's SSShockin'!!!
towman said:
How do you go on with hrs though Steve? I thought you were "limited" anyway?
Fortunately for me, I work for more than one company.
Mr Tow Limited
Mr Man Limited
Mr Sainsbury-wagon man Limited
(Everytime I see a Sainsbury lorry I always wonder if you are the driver
) 8Pack said:
That's the other side of the coin with a hole that needs to be "plugged" isn't it Steve. The importation of cheap labour at the minimum wage. The going rate should be paid for the job, I just hope that politico's get onto it quick. I know it's also a big issue in Germany at the moment.
Agghhhh ... you can't legislate away all the loopholes. Germany is
ed precisely because it does have mountains of legislation controlling how and when people can work. The net result is that there are millions of people on the dole. If their governemnt had any balls they would have deregulated their labour market. They can't blame their woes on reunification any longer. There is no point having wonderful protection from the evils of capitalistic exploitation in the work place ... if you haven't actually got a job.
If we are going to impose myriad, artificial parameters upon variables such as this, we, Europe, whoever, need to seriously think about short-medium term policies to protect our citizens and subjects from the inevitable ravages of eastern competition.
I saw the boss of a small engineering firm on the news last night: he will simply go bust against the competition described - he cannot compete against poverty spec labour, he just can't and it's as simple as that.
It is rampantly unfair for socialist engineers in Brussels to impose all these restrictions on memeber states' companies and then expect them to merrily compete against what is coming from afar (whilst continuing to provide them, via taxation with the means to continue with their infernally meddlesome designs [Grrr!
]).
Neither will it do, for supporters of such easy living, French stylee, to proclaim that it's up to legislators to come up with (what would in all probability be) ineffectual 'fair trade standards' which would seek to ensure some kind of notional parity: you must, under such ideology, embark upon outright trade war because in the short term, whilst such legislative frameworks are formulated, everyone will have gone tits up whilst the Canton Trading Corp's CEO struts along to buy up the bleedin' Premiership!
I agree it's a case of balance and I have no problem with Wedg1e doing a 4 day week - he probably has the right idea (
) - but for the rest of us, up to our neck in more nuts than a fruitcake, we needs goverance which positively helps rather than hinders due to ideological naivety.
Worrying ground.
I saw the boss of a small engineering firm on the news last night: he will simply go bust against the competition described - he cannot compete against poverty spec labour, he just can't and it's as simple as that.
It is rampantly unfair for socialist engineers in Brussels to impose all these restrictions on memeber states' companies and then expect them to merrily compete against what is coming from afar (whilst continuing to provide them, via taxation with the means to continue with their infernally meddlesome designs [Grrr!
]). Neither will it do, for supporters of such easy living, French stylee, to proclaim that it's up to legislators to come up with (what would in all probability be) ineffectual 'fair trade standards' which would seek to ensure some kind of notional parity: you must, under such ideology, embark upon outright trade war because in the short term, whilst such legislative frameworks are formulated, everyone will have gone tits up whilst the Canton Trading Corp's CEO struts along to buy up the bleedin' Premiership!
I agree it's a case of balance and I have no problem with Wedg1e doing a 4 day week - he probably has the right idea (
) - but for the rest of us, up to our neck in more nuts than a fruitcake, we needs goverance which positively helps rather than hinders due to ideological naivety. Worrying ground.
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