Winter Bulking
Discussion
I had a soft ambition this year to have properly defined abs. This didn't happen, though I got pretty close.
At the beginning of this year I weight about 68kg, I now weigh 65kg and have definitely noticed a significant change in how that weight is distributed and it's composition.
Since August when I started working a couple of things have happened - I stopped swimming, my diet got worse and around that time I switched programs to a PPL routine.
What I have noticed is that this has had a positive effect on my strength, and I have also noticed I am growing and not just putting on weight around my stomach.
I've never done a bulking phase before. I kinda feel like if I kept up this kind of diet and level of training until, say, march and then switched my diet to something more restrictive I'd be in a much better position to trim the fat without it impacting my training like it did this year where I just didn't have the reserves.
Would this make sense?
At the beginning of this year I weight about 68kg, I now weigh 65kg and have definitely noticed a significant change in how that weight is distributed and it's composition.
Since August when I started working a couple of things have happened - I stopped swimming, my diet got worse and around that time I switched programs to a PPL routine.
What I have noticed is that this has had a positive effect on my strength, and I have also noticed I am growing and not just putting on weight around my stomach.
I've never done a bulking phase before. I kinda feel like if I kept up this kind of diet and level of training until, say, march and then switched my diet to something more restrictive I'd be in a much better position to trim the fat without it impacting my training like it did this year where I just didn't have the reserves.
Would this make sense?
I shall keep on eating ice cream and not worrying about it, then, I have been pretty cautious about it because prior to starting training again the weight was all going onto my stomach. Now I'm training that no longer seems to be the case so might as well exploit it.
I'm 5'7" and have a pretty small frame so I don't expect I will ever weigh a significant amount.
I'm 5'7" and have a pretty small frame so I don't expect I will ever weigh a significant amount.
Honestly eating junk isn’t a good approach because you will just get fat and spend an equal amount of time trying to get lean which will cause muscle loss juring that phase.
You may need a calorie excess to some extent but it does need to in a way that supports your goals I.e. by increasing fats, proteins and carbs in a controlled way that doesn’t mean you will get real fat! If you’re all skin and bones with no abs, that’s usually a symptom of a poor diet if you’re weight training. If you need something good to read on diet, I could make some suggestions or one of the others could.
Eating lots of ice cream will just make you fat for the most part.
You may need a calorie excess to some extent but it does need to in a way that supports your goals I.e. by increasing fats, proteins and carbs in a controlled way that doesn’t mean you will get real fat! If you’re all skin and bones with no abs, that’s usually a symptom of a poor diet if you’re weight training. If you need something good to read on diet, I could make some suggestions or one of the others could.
Eating lots of ice cream will just make you fat for the most part.
gregs656 said:
The ice cream thing was younger and cheek. I’ve got a pretty good diet, but since I’ve not worried about it so much and eaten more generally I’ve noticed positive strength and size gains.
I think I was too worried about putting on ‘bad’ weight before.
As long as training is appropriate, diet for a bulk is pretty easy. If you're not training with sufficient volume (preferably incorporating compound lifts and frequent lower-body training) then extra calories are just going to appear as fat. Seems you know this but worth thinking about - adequate training is of course a vital part of any bulking phase.I think I was too worried about putting on ‘bad’ weight before.
Ensure you get around 0.40 - 0.55g protein per kg bodyweight, 4x a day. If you don't already have loads of muscle, err towards the higher proportion. It can actually be quite difficult / expensive to hit those numbers with whole-food sources alone so consider supplementing your intake with protein shakes. It might also be worth supplementing some creatine, particularly if you don't eat much meat. Add carbs and fats to your preference. Ice cream is fine, just be reasonable about portion sizes for treats. Some trainers advocate eating what the hell you like in whatever quantity when bulking: I'd suggest taking that with a pinch of salt, but you certainly need lots of calories to maximise your training and recovery. Include some fibre at each meal.
When you eat use a satiety scale of 1-10 where 'starving' = 1 and 'painfully full' = 10. Eat most of your meals to an 8/10 - 'comfortably full'.
Kenny Powers said:
Piling in the calories from carbohydrate sources will encourage insulin to lay down fat in the midriff unless you burn off the glucose almost immediately. If I was trying to gain weight but not gain a paunch, I’d be pouring in more calories from dietary fats.
Complete rubbish. I’ve eaten enough carbs to give you a heart attack for years and never once got even slightly chubby. This anti-carb stuff is utter pseudo-science.
Kenny Powers said:
It’s not anti-carb. I couldn’t care less what the guy eats. He mentions putting on weight around his midriff as a problem for him. I mention that insulin drives the deposition of fat in the midriff.
You can disagree if you like, but you’re disagreeing with actual science.
Insulin drives glucose into muscle tissue, as well. That’s why bodybuilders inject it. You can disagree if you like, but you’re disagreeing with actual science.
Plenty of things increase the storage of abdominal fat, including ‘metabolic syndrome’ and pre-diabetic status. But so does being middle-aged. Nothing to suggest the OP has any problem at all with insulin resistance or any other fashionable disease.
The anti-carb stuff is not supported by anyone with even the remotest credibility.
So you agree that insulin tends to drive abdominal obesity, which was my one and only point, but you disagree because I dared mention the C word in the process. Got it 
I don’t care much what you or the OP have for breakfast, I was just adding some content to the discussion with regards to OP’s concern about abdominal fat. I wasn’t looking for an argument, but I should have known that daring to mention carbohydrate in a bodybuilding thread would upset the locals.
I’ll leave you to it
I don’t care much what you or the OP have for breakfast, I was just adding some content to the discussion with regards to OP’s concern about abdominal fat. I wasn’t looking for an argument, but I should have known that daring to mention carbohydrate in a bodybuilding thread would upset the locals.
I’ll leave you to it
Kenny Powers said:
I’ll leave you to it
Do that Kenny. Your prolific posts are high on opinion, low on evidence - but once again you insist on commenting authoritatively. The very best minds in sports nutrition have been looking at this topic for years and are pretty well zeroed-in on what works, but somehow you, with a rudimentary grasp of a largely psuedo-scientific opinion you happen to like and a self-confessed aversion to serious training, are well-placed to dismiss an overwhelming weight of evidence.
If your high-fat diet was so effective, how come elite athletes don't use it? Hm? If it gave even a fraction of the advantages you routinely and doggedly claim it would be in widespread use. It's not, because professionals involved in sport including highly experienced and qualified dietitians, don't want their athletes to lose.
If only real life was as easy as an internet forum hey?
I’ve never claimed any athletic benefits of dietary fat. I’ve never even claimed any benefits of it in this discussion. I said I would use fat if I were trying to gain weight but was concerned about a paunch. OP can do what he likes, as can you and anyone else.
Why do you guys always take every opposing opinion as a request for total compliance? You bodybuilder types are always so aggressive
Why do you guys always take every opposing opinion as a request for total compliance? You bodybuilder types are always so aggressive
gregs656 said:
It’s the timing more than anything else. I already know the changes in my diet have had a positive effect - just wondering if keeping this up until March and then cutting back would give me half a chance of getting my abs out for summer.
Depends how fat you get. It’s not hard to go from ‘kinda see abs’ to seeing abs, but it’s quite hard to go from belly to abs. Hopefully I'm in a reasonable position to comment.
I'm also 5'7, have competed in mens natural bodybuilding and physique shows over the last 3-4 years. I'm 46 if that makes any difference.
Stage weight is normally around 63 kgs. Yes that's light, but it's also pretty shredded with well defined abs.
I'm currently winter bulking and sitting around 73 kgs. Clearly I'm a little softer but I still have the outline of abs underneath the fluff. I am making some considerable strength gains.
For me to get to stage condition my intake is usually @1,900 cals a day. 3xBW protein, 1xBW fat and the rest carbs (although I do carb cycle - more for variety and I have more on lower body days).
To bulk I normally take in @ 2,800 - 3,000 cals a day. Protein up a bit, fat up a bit, carbs up a lot. I just monitor gym sessions and weight weekly and add in more cals if my weight gain/training performance stalls. I do generally eat clean (whatever that really means) with the occasional treat.
I do find I underestimate how many cals I can consume without actually adding any bodyweight.
I don't believe you can either spot reduce fat, or only gain fat around one specific place. In my experience higher carbs will not just put weight around your midsection, nor will a higher with diet fats stop that from happening. You will gain weight/fat where your body wants it to.
My training/competition buddy has a more aggressive bulk tactic than me, and will consume up to 7,000 cals a day (he does weigh 85 kg stage weight). It tends to go around his midsection/chest/arms. He does look chubby but doesn't mind a longer prep, with more cardio to get lean again. He does use errrrm chemical help though.
I tend to not go overboard on the cals when bulking, put weight all over but as I still maintain a good athletic shape all year round find the cutting stage easier. I don't use chemical help at all.
My advice, keep doing what you're doing, as long as your adding weight/strength and not just getting fat then I think you'd be in a good place to get defined abs next year. I think there is something in pushing cals up, so that you're body is used to them. It's much easier to cut if your maintenance calories are quite high.
I'm also 5'7, have competed in mens natural bodybuilding and physique shows over the last 3-4 years. I'm 46 if that makes any difference.
Stage weight is normally around 63 kgs. Yes that's light, but it's also pretty shredded with well defined abs.
I'm currently winter bulking and sitting around 73 kgs. Clearly I'm a little softer but I still have the outline of abs underneath the fluff. I am making some considerable strength gains.
For me to get to stage condition my intake is usually @1,900 cals a day. 3xBW protein, 1xBW fat and the rest carbs (although I do carb cycle - more for variety and I have more on lower body days).
To bulk I normally take in @ 2,800 - 3,000 cals a day. Protein up a bit, fat up a bit, carbs up a lot. I just monitor gym sessions and weight weekly and add in more cals if my weight gain/training performance stalls. I do generally eat clean (whatever that really means) with the occasional treat.
I do find I underestimate how many cals I can consume without actually adding any bodyweight.
I don't believe you can either spot reduce fat, or only gain fat around one specific place. In my experience higher carbs will not just put weight around your midsection, nor will a higher with diet fats stop that from happening. You will gain weight/fat where your body wants it to.
My training/competition buddy has a more aggressive bulk tactic than me, and will consume up to 7,000 cals a day (he does weigh 85 kg stage weight). It tends to go around his midsection/chest/arms. He does look chubby but doesn't mind a longer prep, with more cardio to get lean again. He does use errrrm chemical help though.
I tend to not go overboard on the cals when bulking, put weight all over but as I still maintain a good athletic shape all year round find the cutting stage easier. I don't use chemical help at all.
My advice, keep doing what you're doing, as long as your adding weight/strength and not just getting fat then I think you'd be in a good place to get defined abs next year. I think there is something in pushing cals up, so that you're body is used to them. It's much easier to cut if your maintenance calories are quite high.
Watch the waist, don't get too fat, and the jobs a good 'un.
10% increase in maintenance cals until growth stalls, then you've reached an new maintenance. 10% increase again and so on, so forth. High protein, higher carb, lowish fat works best for me. But the carb/fat ratio is what ever suits you. Keep protein highish regardless.
Bear in mind that muscle does not grow fast- so if your weight goes up fast, it's fat. (of course there may be an initial jump as you fill your glycogen stores, but that depends on what you were eating before)
BTW, it's easy to think you're getting jacked, when you're actually just getting fat- so be vigilant
10% increase in maintenance cals until growth stalls, then you've reached an new maintenance. 10% increase again and so on, so forth. High protein, higher carb, lowish fat works best for me. But the carb/fat ratio is what ever suits you. Keep protein highish regardless.
Bear in mind that muscle does not grow fast- so if your weight goes up fast, it's fat. (of course there may be an initial jump as you fill your glycogen stores, but that depends on what you were eating before)
BTW, it's easy to think you're getting jacked, when you're actually just getting fat- so be vigilant
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