993 v early 996 choice
Discussion
Apologies if this is an old debate but I'm new to the scene but looking for any opinions on offer to aid my own thoughts on which model to target. Have done a little research and immediate observations seem to me to be: 996 more refined and early cars now equal of lower in price that late 993; I actually prefer the 996 look – I know this is not the perceived wider consensus; On 996 I have read more than a few worrying negative comments on re Rear Main Seal failures and more worryingly engines just giving up – heard 5% failure rate on these units – surely not! Against this 993 bombproof and engine rebuilds very rare/unheard of sub 100k and if necessary ½ the price of 996 early 996 still suffering relatively high depreciation; 993 prices very solid prices but are these sustainable in longer term or short term fashion driven? Apologies for piecemeal observations but I would really welcome any feedback on offer re relative merits to add extra colour to my own thoughts.
Very different - spend as much time as you can driving both and make the decsion that way. I recently bought a 993 and was convinced I didn't like 996s - until I tested one. Very good car, felt faster actually, but ultimately I stuck with the 993 which I love. I'm not sure its quite as rational as top end rebuilds Vs 996 engine problems, best to decidde from the driving seat and assume you will be one of the sizable majority who don't suffer either - making sure you could cope if you are unlucky
>> Edited by james s on Tuesday 10th May 11:18
>> Edited by james s on Tuesday 10th May 11:18
Even though RMS is a problem in a large number of 996's, it isn't the heart attack people make it out to be.
All it means is that a little oil leaks out (tiny amounts) and eventually will probably contaminate the clutch and hence cause slightly premature wear of the clutch (well, it'll start to slip).
So when you replace the clutch you get them to fix the RMS and it costs (relatively) a few quid.
Personally i think the 996 is a great car, but coming from the air cooled stuff it felt more like a BMW than a Porsche to me. So a great car, but not a great Porsche IMHO (excepting GT2/GT3/TT).
Hence the reason i get into my 993tt to drive to work, do the shopping, go away for the weekend, cut a dash across europe, go mountain biking in Wales (with a roofrack!), etc.
Echo: drive both, one will definitely suit you more than the other. Then be happy that you chose the one you prefered, who cares what other people think? There will always be someone who says the 993 is better looking, or someone that says the 993 is archaic, or someone that says the 996 is more confortable and faster, or someone who says.............
VS
All it means is that a little oil leaks out (tiny amounts) and eventually will probably contaminate the clutch and hence cause slightly premature wear of the clutch (well, it'll start to slip).
So when you replace the clutch you get them to fix the RMS and it costs (relatively) a few quid.
Personally i think the 996 is a great car, but coming from the air cooled stuff it felt more like a BMW than a Porsche to me. So a great car, but not a great Porsche IMHO (excepting GT2/GT3/TT).
Hence the reason i get into my 993tt to drive to work, do the shopping, go away for the weekend, cut a dash across europe, go mountain biking in Wales (with a roofrack!), etc.
Echo: drive both, one will definitely suit you more than the other. Then be happy that you chose the one you prefered, who cares what other people think? There will always be someone who says the 993 is better looking, or someone that says the 993 is archaic, or someone that says the 996 is more confortable and faster, or someone who says.............
VS
I recently went through the same dilema and have ended up with a '96 993 C2.
I did drive a 996 Carrera but agree with VS - might as well be driving a Beamer/Merc.
996 Turbo/GT2/GT3 is in a whole other dimension of course, but sadly out of my price range.
Regarding depreciation; 993 prices have barely moved during the past couple of years, whilst early 996 prices continue to plummet. Think about when you come to sell the car...
I did drive a 996 Carrera but agree with VS - might as well be driving a Beamer/Merc.
996 Turbo/GT2/GT3 is in a whole other dimension of course, but sadly out of my price range.
Regarding depreciation; 993 prices have barely moved during the past couple of years, whilst early 996 prices continue to plummet. Think about when you come to sell the car...
One of the interesting (at least to me) things that I have heard is that the 993 took approximately 1300 hours to build as opposed to the sub 400 hours for the 996, and probably 997
Allegedly the 993 was the most expensive car for Porsche to build.
I think that pretty much says it all.
Allegedly the 993 was the most expensive car for Porsche to build.
I think that pretty much says it all.
As has been said, drive both cars, preferably a couple of each model and then decide.
Some people cannot live with a 993 and some cannot live without, so looking for an unbiased reply can sometimes be difficult. VS summed up the 996 well by saying it is like a BMW and this is where the car fails for me as it is not as engaging to drive as a 993, but each to their own.
The RMS problem may be cheap to fix, if it is really ever fixed, but can be very costly and if you are picking up the bill could be hard to swallow.
With regard to depreciation, every car deprciates and to use that as a factor on what car to go for should not be one of the major factors in your decision.
Some people cannot live with a 993 and some cannot live without, so looking for an unbiased reply can sometimes be difficult. VS summed up the 996 well by saying it is like a BMW and this is where the car fails for me as it is not as engaging to drive as a 993, but each to their own.
The RMS problem may be cheap to fix, if it is really ever fixed, but can be very costly and if you are picking up the bill could be hard to swallow.
With regard to depreciation, every car deprciates and to use that as a factor on what car to go for should not be one of the major factors in your decision.
I wouldn't worry too much RMS; it's been over regurgitation in my opinion by forums like this.
No one knows the exact failure rate, because no ones asked every single Porsche 996 owner. Only those in Porsche clubs or who've had a RMS issue have been consulted.
So basically your asking a very small number of people compared to the number of 996's sold and the people like myself who haven't had any RMS problems don't get asked or don't bother with clubs and surveys aren't consulted either(the vast majority of 996 owners probably).
If you intend to use the car every day get the 996, it's faster, lighter, better under braking and isn't as dated inside, you'll have less problems imo. It doesn't matter how well built something is, a car which is a minimum of 8 years old (less for the 993 turbo) is going have some problems to sort and cost more to maintain.
Get a Porsche warrant with whatever car you buy and you won’t be disappointed with either the 993 or 996.
Good luck
>> Edited by bumcrack on Tuesday 10th May 13:50
No one knows the exact failure rate, because no ones asked every single Porsche 996 owner. Only those in Porsche clubs or who've had a RMS issue have been consulted.
So basically your asking a very small number of people compared to the number of 996's sold and the people like myself who haven't had any RMS problems don't get asked or don't bother with clubs and surveys aren't consulted either(the vast majority of 996 owners probably).
If you intend to use the car every day get the 996, it's faster, lighter, better under braking and isn't as dated inside, you'll have less problems imo. It doesn't matter how well built something is, a car which is a minimum of 8 years old (less for the 993 turbo) is going have some problems to sort and cost more to maintain.
Get a Porsche warrant with whatever car you buy and you won’t be disappointed with either the 993 or 996.
Good luck
>> Edited by bumcrack on Tuesday 10th May 13:50
Hmm, i'm on my third 993 and touch wood they've all run like swiss watches.
I'm not sure i'd agree that a 10 year old 993 C2 would give you more problems than a 5 year old 996 C2.
Given my own experience and those of people i know, it would seem that quite the reverse is true on the whole.
People who own 993's and have no trouble seem quite common, and yet people who own 996's and have no trouble seem few and far between.
Just IMHO of course.
VS
I'm not sure i'd agree that a 10 year old 993 C2 would give you more problems than a 5 year old 996 C2.
Given my own experience and those of people i know, it would seem that quite the reverse is true on the whole.
People who own 993's and have no trouble seem quite common, and yet people who own 996's and have no trouble seem few and far between.
Just IMHO of course.
VS
Well my first 993 ate its diff at 43k miles - could only get the bottom 3 gears (2nd, 4th, 6th) 
Porsche were astonished (it's meant to be a bombproof gearbox) and replaced it free of charge (7k worth)
However the last 2 have been brilliant. Only failures (other than consumable replacements) have related to the air con.
They aren't really totally equivalent cars, you need to drive both to see which style you prefer. You ought to get a larger choice of 996s as they were cheaper to buy and more were produced, whereas the enthusiast crew are holding up the price of old 993s. Equally, due to the earliest 996s being cheaper than 993s, there will be some unloved cars out there that are probably worth avoiding.
And to avoid sounding reasonable and open minded, remember that the 996 is shite and 993s are the best cars ever made. Get a 993.
Porsche were astonished (it's meant to be a bombproof gearbox) and replaced it free of charge (7k worth) However the last 2 have been brilliant. Only failures (other than consumable replacements) have related to the air con.
They aren't really totally equivalent cars, you need to drive both to see which style you prefer. You ought to get a larger choice of 996s as they were cheaper to buy and more were produced, whereas the enthusiast crew are holding up the price of old 993s. Equally, due to the earliest 996s being cheaper than 993s, there will be some unloved cars out there that are probably worth avoiding.
And to avoid sounding reasonable and open minded, remember that the 996 is shite and 993s are the best cars ever made. Get a 993.
Well, the 993 is the best 911 porsche ever made. It was hand built. It shared very few common parts with other porsches, the engine and suspension was developed over 40 years....
you know all this anyway right?
To drive a 993 is to feel like you and the car are one. You feel the road. It's steering and response is like no other car, bar a caterham.
A 996 is much easier to drive, less invloving but more comfortable.
Porsches were originally designed for maximun driver involvement. A 993 gives you this. To come close in a 996 you have to drive a turbo or a GT3.
A 993 is beautiful. A 996..... well if you like boxsters....
you know all this anyway right?
To drive a 993 is to feel like you and the car are one. You feel the road. It's steering and response is like no other car, bar a caterham.
A 996 is much easier to drive, less invloving but more comfortable.
Porsches were originally designed for maximun driver involvement. A 993 gives you this. To come close in a 996 you have to drive a turbo or a GT3.
A 993 is beautiful. A 996..... well if you like boxsters....
ollie993 said:
Well, the 993 is the best 911 porsche ever made. It was hand built. It shared very few common parts with other porsches, the engine and suspension was developed over 40 years....
you know all this anyway right?
To drive a 993 is to feel like you and the car are one. You feel the road. It's steering and response is like no other car, bar a caterham.
A 996 is much easier to drive, less invloving but more comfortable.
Porsches were originally designed for maximun driver involvement. A 993 gives you this. To come close in a 996 you have to drive a turbo or a GT3.
A 993 is beautiful. A 996..... well if you like boxsters....
And it's old and shite and owners are of the beardy type
, how’s that for an unbiased view.
Anyone reading this isn't going to get a balanced opinion of either car. Especially since this board should be renamed the 993 owner club, most 996 owners are to busy lording it and don't bother with such nerdy things as the gassing station.
Just me then
>> Edited by bumcrack on Tuesday 10th May 14:48
Believe it or not this is not meant to diss 996s. They are faster, more modern and probably easier for a numpty like me to drive, cheaper to service and currently probably better value, ao a more sensible choice - but if we bought the most sensible cars we would buy diesel Mondeos
993 feels heavy, the peddles are just silly on a RHD, the clutch fierce and unforgiving, the layout inside unhelpful (but fabulous) and the lights next to useless. You need to drive about 5 miles before the huge oil lake is warm enough to offer any protection against a good bootful and you have no chance of using the stereo whilst keeping the car on the road.
When I first picked this one up about a month ago, I went on a drive to re-acquaint myself with 911s. As I rediscovered all the foibles once again it really reminded me of why I love these cars - their stubborn reliance on thoroughly old fashioned engineering with all its idiosyncrasies left me with one thought
They are the perfect antidote to the over cushioned, automated modern world – just fantastic.
Get a 993 – the way prices are going at the moment you can keep it for a year and then swap it for a 996 and cash!
993 feels heavy, the peddles are just silly on a RHD, the clutch fierce and unforgiving, the layout inside unhelpful (but fabulous) and the lights next to useless. You need to drive about 5 miles before the huge oil lake is warm enough to offer any protection against a good bootful and you have no chance of using the stereo whilst keeping the car on the road.
When I first picked this one up about a month ago, I went on a drive to re-acquaint myself with 911s. As I rediscovered all the foibles once again it really reminded me of why I love these cars - their stubborn reliance on thoroughly old fashioned engineering with all its idiosyncrasies left me with one thought
They are the perfect antidote to the over cushioned, automated modern world – just fantastic.
Get a 993 – the way prices are going at the moment you can keep it for a year and then swap it for a 996 and cash!
bumcrack said:
Anyone reading this isn't going to get a balanced opinion of either car. Especially since this board should be renamed the 993 owner club, most 996 owners are to busy lording it and don't bother with such nerdy things as the gassing station.
So when's this happening then?
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