Sack for taking sick leave?
Discussion
Zor600 said:
Sickness policy states there needs to be a warning. They are trying to get the colleague on the basis that they aren’t capable to do the work due to stress.
As I said it’s difficult to give an opinion without a full set of facts or timeline but if he’s off work with stress there should be limited interaction with said colleague from management. Welfare calls are normal but his future shouldn’t be discussed as clearly it’s going to impact on their stress. If it’s their first time off sick in 9 years and it’s only been 5 weeks I would be staggered if that was a capability issue.
Zor600 said:
Sickness policy states there needs to be a warning. They are trying to get the colleague on the basis that they aren’t capable to do the work due to stress.
What warning? You can’t threaten to dismiss someone, who is off sick. So no you can’t issue a warning. If they have a valid doctors note, then the company need to wait. Especially if the employee has more than two years service. When you say ‘get’ the colleague, you are implying the company want to dismiss the person, without a process, this is not appropriate.
If they have increased the workload, but not resources or pay, then the employee could make a strong case at an ET. They should be very careful.
Zor600 said:
I also agree, however the colleague is worried about the potential outcome of this. In the first week the colleague was off, he was told by his manager that he can either accept it or find another job (in a much more polite way ofcourse)
Accept what exactly, a written warning for being off sick? Zor600 said:
I also agree, however the colleague is worried about the potential outcome of this. In the first week the colleague was off, he was told by his manager that he can either accept it or find another job (in a much more polite way ofcourse)
That is clearly unacceptable. If the stress is work related then that is a pretty horrendous attitude.A timeline of dates, times and details of what was said from whom is important here, also a copy of the sickness policy with current date. Your colleague needs to be prepared for a worse case scenario and if the employer does sack the them an employment tribunal might be required.
Also they needs to seek out their union rep if applicable. They shouldn’t attend any meeting without a witness and/or someone taking minutes.
As others have said, record everything. Conversations, contact, frequency etc etc. Also stress levels as a result of the contact should be noted, as contact can increase the sickness length.
Is there a HR department? Is the manager a director of the business [ie owner manager]?
Evidence is everything if this goes to a tribunal.
If the contact / burden is too much they can raise a grievance
Is there a HR department? Is the manager a director of the business [ie owner manager]?
Evidence is everything if this goes to a tribunal.
If the contact / burden is too much they can raise a grievance
Ruskie said:
It’s difficult to say without more detail but it in a nutshell no they can’t. First thing to look at the sickness policy and see if it has been followed appropriately.
They can....They accuse you of bad time keeping (always the first thing they try), they get IT to plant indecent images on your computer, get a colleague to accuse you of something, etc etc etc.
When the reason they want you gone is not substantial enough,or simply isn't legal/moral, they just make stuff up.
I mentioned "management paranoia" in a another thread recently, they get themselves worked up with this idea that someone is taking the piss and even when that person rolls into work with 80 stitched across their abdomen, they still don't believe it.
Edited by lyonspride on Thursday 8th November 11:23
There is more to this than is being said or is known by the OP. Despite what the poster above is suggesting (I mean IT placing indecent images on your computer... come on) companies generally don’t just want to get rid of people at the drop of a hat or for a small amount of sick absence. They usually have more of a clue in terms of what they are doing too than many would give credit for.
The best advice is for your colleague to seek legal advice should they feel they need it and as has been said above make notes about what is happening, who is doing it and how it is impacting them.
The best advice is for your colleague to seek legal advice should they feel they need it and as has been said above make notes about what is happening, who is doing it and how it is impacting them.
lyonspride said:
Ruskie said:
It’s difficult to say without more detail but it in a nutshell no they can’t. First thing to look at the sickness policy and see if it has been followed appropriately.
They can....They accuse you of bad time keeping (always the first thing they try), they get IT to plant indecent images on your computer, get a colleague to accuse you of something, etc etc etc.
When the reason they want you gone is not substantial enough,or simply isn't legal/moral, they just make stuff up.
I mentioned "management paranoia" in a another thread recently, they get themselves worked up with this idea that someone is taking the piss and even when that person rolls into work with 80 stitched across their abdomen, they still don't believe it.
Edited by lyonspride on Thursday 8th November 11:23
http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/sickness/
This link provides some good info for the OP. As stated above there is no substitute for proper legal advice.
Ruskie said:
That’s not related to what’s going on here is it?
http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/sickness/
This link provides some good info for the OP. As stated above there is no substitute for proper legal advice.
Of course it is, if management are itching to sack someone for being of sick, they don't have to declare that as the real reason, better to find or make up something more serious. Employment law tries to make things fair, but employers are a dab hand at finding loopholes.http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/sickness/
This link provides some good info for the OP. As stated above there is no substitute for proper legal advice.
I've seen it from both sides, if they want someone gone, they'll find a way to do it.
The key is to have your back covered from every angle, but by the time your suspicious of anything it's usually too late.
Royal mail try this s
t with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.
t with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.lyonspride said:
Ruskie said:
That’s not related to what’s going on here is it?
http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/sickness/
This link provides some good info for the OP. As stated above there is no substitute for proper legal advice.
Of course it is, if management are itching to sack someone for being of sick, they don't have to declare that as the real reason, better to find or make up something more serious. Employment law tries to make things fair, but employers are a dab hand at finding loopholes.http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/sickness/
This link provides some good info for the OP. As stated above there is no substitute for proper legal advice.
I've seen it from both sides, if they want someone gone, they'll find a way to do it.
The key is to have your back covered from every angle, but by the time your suspicious of anything it's usually too late.
eybic said:
Royal mail try this st with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.
What's wrong with that? Royal Mail has good sickness benefit (6 months full pay) and unfortunately a lot of people take advantage of that when they're not actually too sick to work. I'm sure your brother was genuine but being consistent, the sickness absence chat probably happens to everyone.t with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.eybic said:
Royal mail try this st with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.
That’s a sickness meeting, it shouldn’t be threatening or sinister and nothing unusual about that. It normally goes in order depending on employer policy. t with posties too, my brother has been with them for 15+ years and damaged his knee a couple of years ago, on his return to work a couple of weeks later, he was called in for a "meeting about his sickness" being told that he's being watched and if he's off sick again in the next 6 months he would be called in for a more serious meeting.For example...
Informal meeting
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Final written warning
Dismissal
xx99xx said:
What's wrong with that? Royal Mail has good sickness benefit (6 months full pay) and unfortunately a lot of people take advantage of that when they're not actually too sick to work. I'm sure your brother was genuine but being consistent, the sickness absence chat probably happens to everyone.
Being told you are 'being watched' does not seem like a normal comment for a 'return to work' meeting.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff