What are the rules for a 17 year old re work/study?
Discussion
My 17 year old left school earlier this year. Now back in my day you left school and you simply went and got a job and took things from there. However, it's now 2018 and things aren't that simple. We're told that the youth of today must stay in education until 18. So if you decide school isn't for you.....
Young people will need to continue to study or train through either:
• Full-time education in a school, college or with a training provider
• An Apprenticeship
• Full-time work or volunteering combined with part-time education or training
Full time education is out. They've had enough.
An apprentice on the whole is the biggest load of b
ks going. For example did you know that Harvester offer a role as Waitress apprentice. Say what? The initial training as a waitress isn't rocket science and you either pick it up or you don't.
So they've gone and got themselves a full time job. This is where we need clarification. It says Full-time work or volunteering combined with part-time education or training. What does "part-time education or training" actually mean and does anyone know do they have to do a certain amount of hours a week?
Young people will need to continue to study or train through either:
• Full-time education in a school, college or with a training provider
• An Apprenticeship
• Full-time work or volunteering combined with part-time education or training
Full time education is out. They've had enough.
An apprentice on the whole is the biggest load of b
ks going. For example did you know that Harvester offer a role as Waitress apprentice. Say what? The initial training as a waitress isn't rocket science and you either pick it up or you don't.So they've gone and got themselves a full time job. This is where we need clarification. It says Full-time work or volunteering combined with part-time education or training. What does "part-time education or training" actually mean and does anyone know do they have to do a certain amount of hours a week?
Sir Bagalot said:
• Full-time work or volunteering combined with part-time education or training
So that sounds like they can go and get a job (any job), as long as its supplemented with a bit of part-time education, like an evening course at a local college? That seems sensible enough.I've just looked up the employer handbook online, and this it what we're told....
Employers Handbook said:
Working hours for young workers
The Working Time Regulations govern the hours most workers can work and, for young workers, provide a right to:
at least two consecutive days off per week
a daily rest break of 12 consecutive hours (usually the break between finishing work one day and starting work the next)
a 30 minute break if the shift lasts more than 4.5 hours
a limit of 8 hours of work per day and 40 hours of work per week.
Requirement to stay in education
In England only, young people are required to stay in education or training, at least part-time, until they are 18 years old. They are required to take part in education or training through either:
Full-time education or training, including college
Work-based learning, such as an apprenticeship
Working or volunteering for at least 20 hours a week while in part time education
It is the young worker's responsibility to ensure these requirements are met.
National Minimum Wage
Most workers over school leaving age will be entitled to receive the National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage. Young workers must be paid the correct rate for their age. Apprentices who are under 19, or those who are 19 or over but in their first year of apprenticeship, have a separate set rate.
Working at night
The night period is the period between 10pm and 6am. For young workers this can be changed to 11pm to 7am in the contract of employment. Workers under 18 are not usually allowed to work at night, however, exceptions can apply in some circumstances.
Young workers may work between 10pm or 11pm to midnight and between 4am to 6 or 7am if they are employed in:
agriculture
retail trading
postal or newspaper deliveries
a catering business, hotel, public house, restaurant
a bakery.
Young workers may work throughout the night if they are employed in a hospital or similar place of work, or in areas such as, advertising, sporting or artistic activities. For example a child actor employed to work on a night shoot.
Young workers can only work at these times if:
the work is necessary to maintain continuity of service or production or there has been a surge in demand
there is no adult available to do the work
carrying out the work will not impact on the young worker's education or training.
So, something like an evening course would sound ideal? It doesn't specify a minimum number of hours.The Working Time Regulations govern the hours most workers can work and, for young workers, provide a right to:
at least two consecutive days off per week
a daily rest break of 12 consecutive hours (usually the break between finishing work one day and starting work the next)
a 30 minute break if the shift lasts more than 4.5 hours
a limit of 8 hours of work per day and 40 hours of work per week.
Requirement to stay in education
In England only, young people are required to stay in education or training, at least part-time, until they are 18 years old. They are required to take part in education or training through either:
Full-time education or training, including college
Work-based learning, such as an apprenticeship
Working or volunteering for at least 20 hours a week while in part time education
It is the young worker's responsibility to ensure these requirements are met.
National Minimum Wage
Most workers over school leaving age will be entitled to receive the National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage. Young workers must be paid the correct rate for their age. Apprentices who are under 19, or those who are 19 or over but in their first year of apprenticeship, have a separate set rate.
Working at night
The night period is the period between 10pm and 6am. For young workers this can be changed to 11pm to 7am in the contract of employment. Workers under 18 are not usually allowed to work at night, however, exceptions can apply in some circumstances.
Young workers may work between 10pm or 11pm to midnight and between 4am to 6 or 7am if they are employed in:
agriculture
retail trading
postal or newspaper deliveries
a catering business, hotel, public house, restaurant
a bakery.
Young workers may work throughout the night if they are employed in a hospital or similar place of work, or in areas such as, advertising, sporting or artistic activities. For example a child actor employed to work on a night shoot.
Young workers can only work at these times if:
the work is necessary to maintain continuity of service or production or there has been a surge in demand
there is no adult available to do the work
carrying out the work will not impact on the young worker's education or training.
Technically I don't actually think it's enforced at all. It's the responsibility of the 16-18 year old to do it, but if they don't there isn't actually anything anyone can do about it, you won't get penalised for them not attending training while they work full time.
Article from earlier this year:
https://feweek.co.uk/2018/02/02/enforcement-measur...
Also that:
https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/pa...
Article from earlier this year:
https://feweek.co.uk/2018/02/02/enforcement-measur...
Also that:
https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/pa...
article said:
The legal requirement to participate is on the young person, not the parent/carer. Enforcement does not form part of the current law and therefore young people will not receive a sanction for non-participation. This could change in the future as this position is regularly reviewed.
They're just not made out for education. They did have a full time job until she saw a coworker taking drugs in the stockroom, obviously the coworker made them out to be workshy before they 'grassed' and the job was withdrawn.
Another role stars this week.
The LA do call them on a regular basis so I'll get them to ask the LA what are the rules and how strictly are they enforced.
Another role stars this week.
The LA do call them on a regular basis so I'll get them to ask the LA what are the rules and how strictly are they enforced.
Get a job and sign up for any old course NVQ L2 or something it’s not policed at all it’s a policy.
I’m not sure I agree with your comment re apprenticeship some are very worthwhile and at a degree level yes others like your example are probably a waste of time. But apprentice plumber, gas fitter, electrician, aircraft engineer are all worthwhile and should be apprenticeships rather than college only.
I’m not sure I agree with your comment re apprenticeship some are very worthwhile and at a degree level yes others like your example are probably a waste of time. But apprentice plumber, gas fitter, electrician, aircraft engineer are all worthwhile and should be apprenticeships rather than college only.
BoRED S2upid said:
I’m not sure I agree with your comment re apprenticeship some are very worthwhile and at a degree level yes others like your example are probably a waste of time. But apprentice plumber, gas fitter, electrician, aircraft engineer are all worthwhile and should be apprenticeships rather than college only.
The good apprenticeships are few and far between. The vast majority are a bag of ste.In answer to the original question I asked my 17 yr old to tell the council they now had a full time job and ask them to clarify what the additional training/education actually meant. The answer came later and it's that they will receive training in their new role and that will suffice
Sir Bagalot said:
The good apprenticeships are few and far between. The vast majority are a bag of ste.
Do you mean the companies hiring apprentices are bags of ste.te or the qualifications the apprentice will obtain from the course provider? Or indeed both?Genuinely interested as I'm considering a radical career change.
My son finishes at school next year so I have been looking with him for an apprenticeship.
Apprenticeships do have a place (although it isn't trainee bar staff at Harvester) so don't discount them
I started via an apprenticeship 33 years ago and it did me ok, things to look for (IMO)
That the apprenticeship is being offered by an employer (not a training organisation) or if it's via a training organisation that there is a permanent attachment to a company.
That the 'trade' being leant is vocational, like plumbing or accountancy or car mechanics. No something wooly like 'sales' or 'customer services'
That the trade takes a few years to learn and is an in demand skill, the idea being that the employer won't be looking to replace with another apprentice at the end of the 2/3/4 year period. That they are training people for the employers future as well as the trainees
Apprenticeships do have a place (although it isn't trainee bar staff at Harvester) so don't discount them
I started via an apprenticeship 33 years ago and it did me ok, things to look for (IMO)
That the apprenticeship is being offered by an employer (not a training organisation) or if it's via a training organisation that there is a permanent attachment to a company.
That the 'trade' being leant is vocational, like plumbing or accountancy or car mechanics. No something wooly like 'sales' or 'customer services'
That the trade takes a few years to learn and is an in demand skill, the idea being that the employer won't be looking to replace with another apprentice at the end of the 2/3/4 year period. That they are training people for the employers future as well as the trainees
Sir Bagalot said:
The good apprenticeships are few and far between. The vast majority are a bag of ste.
In answer to the original question I asked my 17 yr old to tell the council they now had a full time job and ask them to clarify what the additional training/education actually meant. The answer came later and it's that they will receive training in their new role and that will suffice
The apprenticeships in my work are superb and lead to degree qualifications and professional roles.te.In answer to the original question I asked my 17 yr old to tell the council they now had a full time job and ask them to clarify what the additional training/education actually meant. The answer came later and it's that they will receive training in their new role and that will suffice
We take on about 60 a year I think.
CubanPete said:
The apprenticeships in my work are superb and lead to degree qualifications and professional roles.
We take on about 60 a year I think.
Few places I've worked - they are now prioritising apprentiships over graduate schemes - as most Grads think they know it all/just want to climb the corporate greasy pole. Apprentices they can mould into what they need.We take on about 60 a year I think.
FunkyGibbon said:
Sir Bagalot said:
The good apprenticeships are few and far between. The vast majority are a bag of ste.
Do you mean the companies hiring apprentices are bags of ste.te or the qualifications the apprentice will obtain from the course provider? Or indeed both?Genuinely interested as I'm considering a radical career change.
I did an apprenticeship in engineering in a manufacturing/engineering environment, and still work there many years later. There are still ones like that out there, which will get you decent qualifications and aren't just used to get interim cheap labour, finding them can be hard.
Trainee air traffic control role:
£17k
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/air-traff...
Haven't read it in massive detail but the prospective salaries look good. Anyone done this as a career?
£17k
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/air-traff...
Haven't read it in massive detail but the prospective salaries look good. Anyone done this as a career?
Some apprenticeships are quite good.
I am currently trying to hire my first apprentice. It's a level 4 role, so equivalent of a foundation degree. The training is part of the package and they're going to be better qualified than some of our existing staff once they complete it. I've been quite impressed by the breadth of the syllabus. On top of the training packages I've also had to map the role profile/tasks to the competency framework to prove they'll get the required experience.
(It's a data role in Birmingham so if you're interested PM for details - the role closes in a few days)
I am currently trying to hire my first apprentice. It's a level 4 role, so equivalent of a foundation degree. The training is part of the package and they're going to be better qualified than some of our existing staff once they complete it. I've been quite impressed by the breadth of the syllabus. On top of the training packages I've also had to map the role profile/tasks to the competency framework to prove they'll get the required experience.
(It's a data role in Birmingham so if you're interested PM for details - the role closes in a few days)
Sir Bagalot said:
The good apprenticeships are few and far between. The vast majority are a bag of ste.
In answer to the original question I asked my 17 yr old to tell the council they now had a full time job and ask them to clarify what the additional training/education actually meant. The answer came later and it's that they will receive training in their new role and that will suffice
I could find several hundred aerospace apprentices who would disagree as they swan round the college on their £25k a year as their catering apprentice peers are washing pots at a weekend. te.In answer to the original question I asked my 17 yr old to tell the council they now had a full time job and ask them to clarify what the additional training/education actually meant. The answer came later and it's that they will receive training in their new role and that will suffice
seyre1972 said:
CubanPete said:
The apprenticeships in my work are superb and lead to degree qualifications and professional roles.
We take on about 60 a year I think.
Few places I've worked - they are now prioritising apprentiships over graduate schemes - as most Grads think they know it all/just want to climb the corporate greasy pole. Apprentices they can mould into what they need.We take on about 60 a year I think.
By 26 they have a degree, no debt and 8-10 years experience too.
FunkyGibbon said:
Do you mean the companies hiring apprentices are bags of ste or the qualifications the apprentice will obtain from the course provider? Or indeed both?
Genuinely interested as I'm considering a radical career change.
Gibbon,te or the qualifications the apprentice will obtain from the course provider? Or indeed both?Genuinely interested as I'm considering a radical career change.
I'll say this and nothing more: I'm happy to help you out. You are welcome to take the OP's advice if you prefer, but I can say with certainty that he knows less about apprenticeships than Diane Abbot knows about advanced mathematics.
PM me for more.
vindaloo79 said:
Trainee air traffic control role:
£17k
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/air-traff...
Haven't read it in massive detail but the prospective salaries look good. Anyone done this as a career?
I can advise on this from two angles, but I'd rather, for my own reasons, do so by PM. Do get in touch in that way if you'd like.£17k
https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/air-traff...
Haven't read it in massive detail but the prospective salaries look good. Anyone done this as a career?
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