Projector opinion + what projection screen?
Discussion
I've been looking at projectors (never had one before) and due to limits in the room (distance from screen to rear wall around 12 feet), most projectors have too long a throw to get a good sized image. I'd ideally like an image around 110" diagonal - so around 96" or 244cm wide. 16:9 aspect ratio.
Projector
I therefore think I need a short throw PJ, but do not want to go ultra short throw. In order to keep costs down, and due to the majority of content being HD, I'm not considering 4k, but do want 3D, so have come across the Optoma GT1080Darbee for £660. This would give the right image size if mounted (on the ceiling) around 4 foot in front of the screen. It would be used mainly for films, but occasionally for gaming and watching a bit of sport.
I'm able to cut out almost all light from entering the room, but the walls and ceiling are light coloured.
So first question - does anyone have experience of this projector?
Screen:
I'm aware that it's important to have as flat a screen as possible so am considering a tab-tensioned one.
I'm a bit confused as I've found several at various prices, but there appear very few comparative reviews online.
Does anyone have any experience, or knowledge of these 2. Both are the same size, tab tensioned, same gain, same border sizes, including 40cm top border which I think I'll need due to ceiling mounting the screen (it has to come down in front of the existing TV), but significant difference in price.
Sapphire screen at £970.
Celexon screen at £436.
Any advantages to the more expensive one, or any other suggestions for alternatives?
Many thanks for any info.
Projector
I therefore think I need a short throw PJ, but do not want to go ultra short throw. In order to keep costs down, and due to the majority of content being HD, I'm not considering 4k, but do want 3D, so have come across the Optoma GT1080Darbee for £660. This would give the right image size if mounted (on the ceiling) around 4 foot in front of the screen. It would be used mainly for films, but occasionally for gaming and watching a bit of sport.
I'm able to cut out almost all light from entering the room, but the walls and ceiling are light coloured.
So first question - does anyone have experience of this projector?
Screen:
I'm aware that it's important to have as flat a screen as possible so am considering a tab-tensioned one.
I'm a bit confused as I've found several at various prices, but there appear very few comparative reviews online.
Does anyone have any experience, or knowledge of these 2. Both are the same size, tab tensioned, same gain, same border sizes, including 40cm top border which I think I'll need due to ceiling mounting the screen (it has to come down in front of the existing TV), but significant difference in price.
Sapphire screen at £970.
Celexon screen at £436.
Any advantages to the more expensive one, or any other suggestions for alternatives?
Many thanks for any info.
Edited by C&C on Sunday 25th November 02:24
I just painted my chimney breast white with screwfix matt white emulsion.
(The whole room including the ceiling is actually painted the same..)
It makes a great screen as long as you can keep out external/ambient light
Try and get it as smooth as possible before painting with fine roller for smooth finish.
Quite a few threads on here about projectors/ screens / home cinema etc. Have check of those.
(The whole room including the ceiling is actually painted the same..)
It makes a great screen as long as you can keep out external/ambient light
Try and get it as smooth as possible before painting with fine roller for smooth finish.
Quite a few threads on here about projectors/ screens / home cinema etc. Have check of those.
peterperkins said:
I just painted my chimney breast white with screwfix matt white emulsion.
(The whole room including the ceiling is actually painted the same..)
It makes a great screen as long as you can keep out external/ambient light
Try and get it as smooth as possible before painting with fine roller for smooth finish.
Thanks, but this isn't an option for me as my existing 55 inch Panasonic plasma is in front of the wall, so I need a screen to drop down just in front of the plasma.(The whole room including the ceiling is actually painted the same..)
It makes a great screen as long as you can keep out external/ambient light
Try and get it as smooth as possible before painting with fine roller for smooth finish.
peterperkins said:
Quite a few threads on here about projectors/ screens / home cinema etc. Have check of those.
I've used the search, but not found specific mention of either of these 2 tab tensioned screens, nor for that matter the particular projector.For what its worth I have a similar sized room to you, but maybe 10 feet between front of projector and screen, so on the limit for throw for a lot of projectors.
My walls are a mid/light grey and I thought that would be dark enough, it isn't really but is acceptable as the screen is almost the width of the room and therefore the light coming off the screen is a lot (technical term!)
I have the same celexon 96" motorised screen that you are looking at, it was around £400. Quality of picture is really good to my eyes, but at this price there are flaws, the main one being the slight curl on the edges of the screen, and the fact there is no auto stop on the screen drop. The power lead is also too short so I voided the warranty straight out the box and cut the EU plug off to extend it (I noticed the slight curl in the screen on first use, after cutting the cable) This is not a big issue but does irritate me! (no-one else has noticed it though).
The minor compromises were still well worth the immersive experience but I don't think I'd be looking at Celexon if I were to do it again
I have an Epson 6700 projector which is more than good enough for my little setup - there are lots of guides to help with getting the right projector for throw distance out there (Epson website is decent from memory
Take a look at projectorpoint - I didn't use them in the end but they were very helpful, and I wish I had bought from them
Hopefully some of that is useful!
My walls are a mid/light grey and I thought that would be dark enough, it isn't really but is acceptable as the screen is almost the width of the room and therefore the light coming off the screen is a lot (technical term!)
I have the same celexon 96" motorised screen that you are looking at, it was around £400. Quality of picture is really good to my eyes, but at this price there are flaws, the main one being the slight curl on the edges of the screen, and the fact there is no auto stop on the screen drop. The power lead is also too short so I voided the warranty straight out the box and cut the EU plug off to extend it (I noticed the slight curl in the screen on first use, after cutting the cable) This is not a big issue but does irritate me! (no-one else has noticed it though).
The minor compromises were still well worth the immersive experience but I don't think I'd be looking at Celexon if I were to do it again
I have an Epson 6700 projector which is more than good enough for my little setup - there are lots of guides to help with getting the right projector for throw distance out there (Epson website is decent from memory
Take a look at projectorpoint - I didn't use them in the end but they were very helpful, and I wish I had bought from them
Hopefully some of that is useful!
Might be worth having read around here.... https://www.avforums.com/forums/
I have an Epson TW5300 and spent a lot of time setting it up and calculating the correct distance to mount it on the ceiling.
I then spent even more time on the actual measuring, and remeasuring, to get it mounted to within about 1/2mm of the optimal central position.
That's not easy looking upside down on the ceiling with people holding tape measures, wooden triangular battens and patterns etc.
Time spent above pays dividends as you don't then have to use side keystone correction, lens shift or other fudges to adjust the image.
The lens is not in the center of a lot of projectors, so you have to calculate the side dimensions from the lens center not the projector center.
I also project modern 16:9 and a lot of 4:3 old film stuff.
I don't have a seperate screen (I project onto the blank wall above the fireplace)
A fixed and bordered 16:9 screen or a 4:3 screen would be wrong or not optimal depending on what you are projecting.
If you have a 16:9 screen then when you play a 4:3 film you will waste a lot of the screen edge as the height will be shrunk so the more cube like dimensions of the 4:3 image fit into the central rectangle of your 16:9 screen. That annoys me.
By not having a height restricting 16:9 screen I can use the zoom on my projector to big up a 4:3 image to fill the full width of the 16:9 width nominal dimension of my wall space.
I mounted mine so that with minimum zoom (i.e smallest picture size) a 16:9 image just fitted the width of my chimney breast.
Then when I project 4:3 I can use the zoom to big it up so the width still fills the chimney breast width and I get full picture size.
Hope that makes sense.
I then spent even more time on the actual measuring, and remeasuring, to get it mounted to within about 1/2mm of the optimal central position.
That's not easy looking upside down on the ceiling with people holding tape measures, wooden triangular battens and patterns etc.
Time spent above pays dividends as you don't then have to use side keystone correction, lens shift or other fudges to adjust the image.
The lens is not in the center of a lot of projectors, so you have to calculate the side dimensions from the lens center not the projector center.
I also project modern 16:9 and a lot of 4:3 old film stuff.
I don't have a seperate screen (I project onto the blank wall above the fireplace)
A fixed and bordered 16:9 screen or a 4:3 screen would be wrong or not optimal depending on what you are projecting.
If you have a 16:9 screen then when you play a 4:3 film you will waste a lot of the screen edge as the height will be shrunk so the more cube like dimensions of the 4:3 image fit into the central rectangle of your 16:9 screen. That annoys me.
By not having a height restricting 16:9 screen I can use the zoom on my projector to big up a 4:3 image to fill the full width of the 16:9 width nominal dimension of my wall space.
I mounted mine so that with minimum zoom (i.e smallest picture size) a 16:9 image just fitted the width of my chimney breast.
Then when I project 4:3 I can use the zoom to big it up so the width still fills the chimney breast width and I get full picture size.
Hope that makes sense.
Edited by peterperkins on Wednesday 28th November 16:54
Firstly, thanks for the replies - all appreciated.
I've been looking further at projectors, and have slightly changed my preference from the Optima to a BenQ W1210ST, which is also short throw, but apparently has a better picture (which I'm the most interested in). It also has a very fast response (16ms), so is also good for gaming - which I don't do a lot of, but it could be interesting on a large screen. The other thing I've noticed when trying to research different projectors and looking for reviews is that the same projector has vastly varying model numbers particularly between the USA and Europe. As an example the BenQ model above is the W1210ST in the UK, but the HT2150ST in the USA.
I very, very rarely watch anything in 4:3 ratio. The majority is 16:9, and films on 2.35:1 or similar. I'm looking to go for a 16:9 screen, and as it's the widest I can physically accommodate due to the room organisation (doors etc), this doesn't compromise the size of viewing for 2.35:1 or wider films, as even a widescreen screen would be limited to the same width due to the room.
Summary - I'm settled on the projector, especially as its price has just dropped from £800 to £680 from Amazon. Lowest for a long time apparently according to camelcamelcamel.
I'm definitely going for a 16:9 ratio screen around 240cm wide, but would welcome any more info regarding the screens I'd highlighted, or any other suggestions regarding screens.
Cheers!
I've been looking further at projectors, and have slightly changed my preference from the Optima to a BenQ W1210ST, which is also short throw, but apparently has a better picture (which I'm the most interested in). It also has a very fast response (16ms), so is also good for gaming - which I don't do a lot of, but it could be interesting on a large screen. The other thing I've noticed when trying to research different projectors and looking for reviews is that the same projector has vastly varying model numbers particularly between the USA and Europe. As an example the BenQ model above is the W1210ST in the UK, but the HT2150ST in the USA.
vxsmithers said:
Stuff about the room colour...
This is an area of concern, but there are limits to what I can get away with. Mrs C&C isn't going to be convinced we need the living room painted black! However, I may be able to get away with mounting a couple of dark roller blinds to be pulled down when watching films, so long as they are pretty unobtrusive when put away. She's already ok for the projector screen to be mounted on the ceiling, so if I can find roller blinds that retract into similar white boxes on the ceiling, this should help the room light levels a fair bit.vxsmithers said:
I have the same celexon 96" motorised screen that you are looking at, it was around £400. Quality of picture is really good to my eyes, but at this price there are flaws, the main one being the slight curl on the edges of the screen, and the fact there is no auto stop on the screen drop.
The minor compromises were still well worth the immersive experience but I don't think I'd be looking at Celexon if I were to do it again
Just to be clear - is your model of screen exactly the same? Does it have the tab-tensioning down the sides? If so that's really interesting, as I was under the impression that a lot of screens can suffer from curl at the sides, but this is avoided by getting a tab-tensioned one?The minor compromises were still well worth the immersive experience but I don't think I'd be looking at Celexon if I were to do it again
vxsmithers said:
Hopefully some of that is useful!
Yes thanks - and much appreciated.aquarianone said:
Might be worth having read around here.... https://www.avforums.com/forums/
Thanks - I've already had a good read there, and also posted the same question as this thread on their forum. So far, it's had no replies at all, so PH is proving more useful so far! peterperkins said:
Stuff about installing the projector
Thanks - those are really good points and as I'm ceiling mounting it, I'm intending to spend as much time as necessary to get it in the optimum position. Ideally I'd like to have it perfectly level and square to the screen so there is no need for any keystone correction at all.peterperkins said:
I also project modern 16:9 and a lot of 4:3 old film stuff.
.
.
.
I mounted mine so that with minimum zoom (i.e smallest picture size) a 16:9 image just fitted the width of my chimney breast.
Then when I project 4:3 I can use the zoom to big it up so the width still fills the chimney breast width and I get full picture size.
Hope that makes sense.
Yes, it makes perfect sense. My only problem with my situation is that I have to use a screen to come down in front of the existing 55 inch Panny plasma. .
.
.
I mounted mine so that with minimum zoom (i.e smallest picture size) a 16:9 image just fitted the width of my chimney breast.
Then when I project 4:3 I can use the zoom to big it up so the width still fills the chimney breast width and I get full picture size.
Hope that makes sense.
I very, very rarely watch anything in 4:3 ratio. The majority is 16:9, and films on 2.35:1 or similar. I'm looking to go for a 16:9 screen, and as it's the widest I can physically accommodate due to the room organisation (doors etc), this doesn't compromise the size of viewing for 2.35:1 or wider films, as even a widescreen screen would be limited to the same width due to the room.
Summary - I'm settled on the projector, especially as its price has just dropped from £800 to £680 from Amazon. Lowest for a long time apparently according to camelcamelcamel.
I'm definitely going for a 16:9 ratio screen around 240cm wide, but would welcome any more info regarding the screens I'd highlighted, or any other suggestions regarding screens.
Cheers!
Edited by C&C on Thursday 29th November 00:50
Just noticed that the screen you linked is not the same as mine - don't think that existed when I bought, so tab tensioning should clear that issue. I would have a look around for one that has an adjustable auto stop option though, having to wait to hit the button before the metal bar hits my speaker irritates me!
Re: room colour, its not that big a deal, just when a bright scene comes on it is amplified by light walls which can be distracting. If you're looking at the screen its not really noticeable! I guess I wanted perfection from an imperfect setup (I would love a fully dedicated room, but that is too extreme for my needs)
What started out as a nice to have grew arms and legs... but the whole family is very happy with the end result. I've watched 4 films this week after work so glad it didn't turn into a dusty white elephant!
Good luck and enjoy the end result!
Re: room colour, its not that big a deal, just when a bright scene comes on it is amplified by light walls which can be distracting. If you're looking at the screen its not really noticeable! I guess I wanted perfection from an imperfect setup (I would love a fully dedicated room, but that is too extreme for my needs)
What started out as a nice to have grew arms and legs... but the whole family is very happy with the end result. I've watched 4 films this week after work so glad it didn't turn into a dusty white elephant!
Good luck and enjoy the end result!
We got an Optima UST projector (just over £1k) - sits on a table about 50cm in front of the screen (we didn't want a permanent ceiling one for various reasons). Gives a 100" screen (diagonal)
We love it!
We got the Spitfire tab tensioned screen from Audiovisual Online. Great quality, & I think with a short throw (& certainly the UST) projectors, you need that 'firm' screen.
We love it!
We got the Spitfire tab tensioned screen from Audiovisual Online. Great quality, & I think with a short throw (& certainly the UST) projectors, you need that 'firm' screen.
I thought I'd update the thread with my final decisions on PJ and screen, partly in case it's of any help to others finding this thread, but mainly due to the helpful advice I've been given here, and I know how it can be quite annoying when threads just end without the OP saying what the outcome was.
I went for:
The BenQ W1210ST projector which I ordered when it dropped in price to £680 for a couple of days, but is now back up to £800, so pleased with the price. It has now arrived and first impressions are very good on initial trials projecting on a textured wall. Really looking forward to seeing it on a proper screen.
The Sapphire tab tensioned screen was the final choice. It arrives in a couple of days.
In terms of the sound - this is already sorted. I've had the 5.1 setup for good number of (over 10) years for use with the normal TV, and don't see the need for changing to 7.1/Atmos. It's a bit of a strange setup in that the surround sound processor/amp (Yamaha DSP800) provides power to the rear and centre (Mission) speakers, a line level out to the (REL Strata 3) active sub, and line level left and right front outputs, which go into my stereo hifi - ATC SIA2-150 integrated amp driving Spendor S6e floorstanding speakers. Listening to music this sounds great in 2 channel, and the whole setup also sounds excellent when used for 5.1 sound with films.
Hopefully I can get the ceiling mount, and have the whole thing set up in time for a week off at Christmas to watch a good few films. I'm also looking forward to seeing how the 3D works with such a large screen. I know that many people do not like 3D, but myself and Mrs C&C are both big fans of it when watched in a decent environment (active glasses and no other lights on to cause flickering).
Oh, final point about the room. I mentioned to Mrs C&C that when we get it set up, there may be an issue with light bouncing around - particularly from the side wall on the left. She said that if that was an issue, it would be ok for me to put a couple of black roller blinds on the wall to pull down when watching films! (.... heads off to "blinds to go"..)
I went for:
The BenQ W1210ST projector which I ordered when it dropped in price to £680 for a couple of days, but is now back up to £800, so pleased with the price. It has now arrived and first impressions are very good on initial trials projecting on a textured wall. Really looking forward to seeing it on a proper screen.
The Sapphire tab tensioned screen was the final choice. It arrives in a couple of days.
brickwall said:
Agree with everything PeterPerkins says about measuring and double-measuring.
You really want to avoid keystone if you can; not least because keystone itself hurts image sharpness, but also because it's hard to get the whole image in focus if it's not the same distance from the projector.
I still need to decide on the ceiling mount, which I'll do once the screen is up and I can accurately determine the precise height/drop I need to ensure it is positioned at exactly the correct height - apparently the lens centre should be 35mm above the top edge of the display surface at the throw distance required to fill the screen. This will enable it to be mounted flat and should ensure there is zero keystone correction.You really want to avoid keystone if you can; not least because keystone itself hurts image sharpness, but also because it's hard to get the whole image in focus if it's not the same distance from the projector.
brickwall said:
I wouldn't worry too much about a tab-tensioned screen. I have a normal screen and it drops very flat - no noticeable ripples or slack. Tab-tensioned seem to be much more expensive - I'd re-direct the money to the sound system or PJ.
Fair points, but as the PJ has to be short throw (not UST), I wanted to ensure the screen will be as flat as possible. Whether correct or not, I also reasoned that the screen is likely to outlast the PJ, and Sapphire screens seem to get reasonable reviews (when you can find them), and the 5 year guarantee gives an idea that the manufacturer has a level of confidence in their product also.In terms of the sound - this is already sorted. I've had the 5.1 setup for good number of (over 10) years for use with the normal TV, and don't see the need for changing to 7.1/Atmos. It's a bit of a strange setup in that the surround sound processor/amp (Yamaha DSP800) provides power to the rear and centre (Mission) speakers, a line level out to the (REL Strata 3) active sub, and line level left and right front outputs, which go into my stereo hifi - ATC SIA2-150 integrated amp driving Spendor S6e floorstanding speakers. Listening to music this sounds great in 2 channel, and the whole setup also sounds excellent when used for 5.1 sound with films.
Hopefully I can get the ceiling mount, and have the whole thing set up in time for a week off at Christmas to watch a good few films. I'm also looking forward to seeing how the 3D works with such a large screen. I know that many people do not like 3D, but myself and Mrs C&C are both big fans of it when watched in a decent environment (active glasses and no other lights on to cause flickering).
Oh, final point about the room. I mentioned to Mrs C&C that when we get it set up, there may be an issue with light bouncing around - particularly from the side wall on the left. She said that if that was an issue, it would be ok for me to put a couple of black roller blinds on the wall to pull down when watching films! (.... heads off to "blinds to go"..)
Just for comparison, I use a £139 135" electric cheapo screen:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-135-Electric-HD-Pro...
f:1&frcectupt=true
It DOES curl at the edges, but you only every notice it when there is a prolonged pan from side to side. It is so minor I never think about it. For £139 I might just get another one soon (had it 3.5 years so far) as the curl only really started a year ago. I might try "pegging it out straight" to see if it helps, but like I said, its such a minor issue I tend not to think about it, until I see posts like this :-)
I'd not drop £1k on a screen, but that's personal preference.
I've gone 135" as thats the minimum size given my PJ is on teh back wall. Turns out, at 12ft back viewing, thats around the optimal "cinema" viewing size! Who'd have thought!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-135-Electric-HD-Pro...
f:1&frcectupt=trueIt DOES curl at the edges, but you only every notice it when there is a prolonged pan from side to side. It is so minor I never think about it. For £139 I might just get another one soon (had it 3.5 years so far) as the curl only really started a year ago. I might try "pegging it out straight" to see if it helps, but like I said, its such a minor issue I tend not to think about it, until I see posts like this :-)
I'd not drop £1k on a screen, but that's personal preference.
I've gone 135" as thats the minimum size given my PJ is on teh back wall. Turns out, at 12ft back viewing, thats around the optimal "cinema" viewing size! Who'd have thought!
We've just done this (I say we. I did it and the wife just rolled her eyes).
Went with a 106in manual screen and its super. Then opted for an OPTOMA HD31 UST and have to say its perfect. Picture is fab (OK its not 4K OLED but that's not the point) and most importantly, I can pack it away when not in use so no huge carbuncle on the ceiling or back wall which makes for marital harmony...
Went with a 106in manual screen and its super. Then opted for an OPTOMA HD31 UST and have to say its perfect. Picture is fab (OK its not 4K OLED but that's not the point) and most importantly, I can pack it away when not in use so no huge carbuncle on the ceiling or back wall which makes for marital harmony...
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